Self Serving

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 08 Jan 2003 23:07

So I'm trying to find out people's views about self serving.
Is it wrong or evil?
Just a little no no?
Something never to be done unless kicking with close friends?
Self serve whenever you want?
Or do you bounce the bag off a wall when you kick solo?

I never self serve when I in a circle with people I don't know well.
I never self serve when I kick with anyone who doesn't believe in self serving?
I never self serve at a tournament.
I try to keep self serving to a minimum when I'm kicking with people I know.
I'll self serve a bunch when it's just me and one other person and we're just skooling moves.

(disclaimer: never means almost never.)

Serving to someone elso is one of the only rules of freestyle footbag and when someone self serves (especially over and over again) it can easily ruin the energy of the circle. I'm not proud of the fact that I occationly self serve, but I do think it is okay in a one on one practice session (as long as the person I'm playing withis alright with it).

I do believe in the "pass it on" mentality of footbag. Unfortunately I have noticed many footbaggers totally disregard the no self serving rule. I'm not perfect or anything but I really try not to self serve.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » 08 Jan 2003 23:23

I self serve often when playing with just one other person who doesn't care.
I 'never' self serve in a circle where I'm not sure how the people feel about it.
I 'never' self serve with people who are against it.

I think if you f*ck your run up early (like 2 moves) just pass, it could very well get passed right back to you.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 08 Jan 2003 23:25

hehe. a guy in my club made a freestyle video. but he plays net. the only clip with a selfserve was of that eclipse guy @____@ its okay though. i forgive you.

i like self serving. not self serving ruins my own energy. its so frustrating to go through like 4 circulations and not hit a single move. i try to keep it to a minimum. but if i keep missing a butterfly im not going to pass it until i hit it. ive never really played with anyone outside hackrifice and shred zero though. so i dont know how that will be. i think i will be too scared to self serve at css.
we tried to go no selfserving in our circle for a few sessions a while ago. it was okay. but also not okay.

Dat · Post by **Dat** » 08 Jan 2003 23:41

I am a selfserving maniac. But that's because I kick alone.

dizzy · Post by **dizzy** » 08 Jan 2003 23:46

Self serving is an evil, dirty affliction on the game

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 09 Jan 2003 11:43

When I´m playing just with a friend of mine I self-serve quite frequently, especially when I want to hit something bad and it rolls off my foot. But he´s totally okay with it, he self-serves, too!

When in a circle with people I don´t know or who don´t like it, I never self-serve.

But if someone misses a starting butterfly or so and passes me the bag, I usually pass back to him/her, hoping that this will be remembered the next time I mess up!

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 09 Jan 2003 13:46

i self served at the us open (exile me)

The difference is though, you say when you only hit 2 tricks rob - this was when i missed on the first kick or toe stall (right from the serve). Does this count as a turn?

i voted for the las one

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 09 Jan 2003 13:56

yeah, what catweazle said...that's kind of how I play. as for what Matt said...usually if you miss on your first trick, the next person is nice enough to pass back to give you another shot. Like kenny says though, this should not be the rule, but the exception. Matt Baker almost always passes back in our circles, unless we accidentally self-serve...then he doesn't usually opt to give us the courtesy pass.

this ultimately leads to more self-serving though

because you might not get a pass back. but like the general consensus...I only self serve when I'm skooling with 2 or 3 other stylers that I play with on a regular basis. I try to be on my best behavoir at tournaments. I'll self-serve all over the place tonight with Alex!

I can't stand being in a circle with more than 3 people when one person keeps self-serving and no one else is...it makes me not even want to kick with the person anymore. weird, I know...anyway...

Paulsator · Post by **Paulsator** » 09 Jan 2003 14:45

at the german open this year i was watching some guys shred. i noticed that one guy was self-serving pretty much....then i counted when he got the bag the next round....he self served, I'm not joking,

21

times in a row before passing the bag to the next player... i was stunned

and sort of felt a strong dislike towards him( tho he might be very nice and my judging might not be fair)...
I think, though, when you are in a circle and someone self-serves a lot, the person might just be doing it because he/she doesnt know better. so just tell him/her how it "works". Im pretty sure the person will understand and be fine with it.
21 is too many, tho, even for someone who does not know the "rules". its just rude not to pass the back for such a long time.
p.s. How many self-serves have you seen someone do in a row

hotstepper · Post by **hotstepper** » 09 Jan 2003 14:46

I rarely self-serve. It had become a real problem in our club for quite a while. To remedy this, Brett and I just started making a point of not self-serving and the rest of the people quickly followed suit. I cannot see the validity in self-serving if you miss your first move. As many people have already stated on this subject, it is quite common to get a cortesy toss back if you mess up.

I dunno, I never really got into self-serving. I always played in large circles when I started, with people who were better then me. Also, these were people I didn't know, so I always passed the bag along. My real induction into freestyle etiquette came from both Matt and Al, so that may have something to do with it also. I just feel that self-serving serves not purpose in a group and I do enough of it when I am skooling on my own. However, to each their own it is just a habit I never picked up.

My opinion,

Mike

Tha Big D · Post by **Tha Big D** » 09 Jan 2003 16:26

Whatever.

max · Post by **max** » 09 Jan 2003 16:29

the number of shredders in the circle is definatly a factor. When it's just me and A friend we allow self-serving esp. if the shredder is attempting just one hard trick. When it's three or more people in the circle we usually apply the don't-self-serve-unless-you-mess-up-your-first-trick rule. This I think is a good compromise: it forces you to go for longer runs (if you drop you don't get to self serve) yet you can still go for that really hard trick that keeps rolling off your foot as your first trick (allthough you are not obliged to do so).

The players not kicking get to make sure this rule is applied

I'm saying this now but I remember when I started footbagging and my long runs were three tricks long, it would seem "unfair" when the next guys would do 20+tricks and so I was tempted to self serve a lot (and often did).

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 09 Jan 2003 17:28

max wrote: it would seem "unfair" when the next guys would do 20+tricks and so I was tempted to self serve a lot (and often did).

The thing is, those people who can do 20 tricks have spent many countless hours of practice. Whereas when you were just begining, you hadn't put in your time yet and therefor didn't deserve as much bag time in a circle with more advanced players. I don't think a newbie who steps in a circle with Peter Irish, Rippin' and Daryl should get as much bag time as them unless they have the skill to prove it.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 09 Jan 2003 18:27

I have to give BIG Props to Dan Klokow for setting an outstanding example last weekend at the Chilly Philly. I had the privelege to play with Dan for at least a couple of hours on Saturday night and not only did he not self-serve but he also did something that very few players do these days. He turned down every pass back that was tossed his way. Every one! Thank you Dan for restoring my faith in the future of Footbag!

Kenny Shults
Enforcer
Big Add PASS (Posse Against Self-Serving)

dizzy · Post by **dizzy** » 09 Jan 2003 18:28

Self serving is like crack cocaine. Sure, it may be fun and easy(from what George W. tells me), but *very* quickly, before you even know what happened, you're living in a crack house and jacking your grandma's television for a 5 second high. It may even be worse than that because unlike crack, self serving seems to be contagious.

I think that people get strung out on self serving. So much so that when they go to a tournament or a couple of new people join the session it's awkward for them. Every time they drop there's this hesitation where they catch themselves mid-self-serve. You can actually see them checking themselves, thinking "oh yeah..." and then they pass it. They know they shouldn't do it, but it's so habitual, many times they can't help themselves.

So yes, it really is solely up to you and your friends to decide if you want to self serve and doing so in private "is fine" because it's not actually harmful to your health. But, anybody who voted for anything but #1 should realize that they suffer from and are contributing to the spread of an infectious social disease that is already at pandemic proportions.

My name is Allan, and I am a recovering self server.

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 09 Jan 2003 19:33

Haha my Theory of Knowledge teacher came up and played with us Tuesday and told us about "old school hack" and made fun of us for self serving. Then he left us alone, but it was cool that he came and played with us... he used to be a hippie. He's a cool dude.

xjrjuniorx · Post by **xjrjuniorx** » 10 Jan 2003 13:09

I think it depends on what your trying to acomplish in the group. Is it your trying to show off between you and another guy to help each other get better? or is it you and another guy just chillin trying to keep the hack up and if its both then sometimes yes sometimes no I think the key is to say ok want to try something and then after the like 12th time you screw up realise hes board even if hes into what your trying to do he also wants to try himself so make sure if your hogging it to give it up. and if your the other guy say he yo let me try it once when the other guy gets into trying to get it off and forgets that its his umptenth time trying.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 10 Jan 2003 14:34

Dizzy im such a crack head lol....

I like it when rippin self serves

Hes so aggressive its like he has to have the bag. See rippin can get the bag back up in the air with all these neat toe roll ups and like self serving without bending down to pick it up.. THATS FUCKIN PHATTTTTT. There are "tricky" self serves. I saw vasek self serve a few times that was pretty neat.. he threw it right into a trick i think. They dont over-do it. its every once in a while

Its not a selfish thing. There is defiately a self serve ediquite (sp?) in my opinion. Ive seeen many phat combos/tricks hit after a self serve. Sometimes it helps you to hit a trick cause the first failed try at least made it fresh in your mind.

I would have to agree with kenny on not getting rebates. Dan your the man. If you mess up just pass it and dont expect it back. Sometimes people, when they mess up and pass it to you, you can totally tell they are expecting a rebate. If you dont give it to them ive even heard like them say something like "wheres my rebate?" I think everyone should just quit the whole rebate process. That will keep the bag going around in a timely manner so everyone stays warm. Although if your cool at self serving then go ahead as long as your quick about it and dont do a million kicks before your run after you self serve.

I dont think anybody really wants to self serve. Of course hitting it on the first try is the best.

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 10 Jan 2003 14:46

also, imo, "rebates" hurt the flow of a circle more than a selfserve. mostly for the person who gets it back. you lose your rhythm. and everybody else does too coz the bags going the wrong way.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 10 Jan 2003 16:01

Yeah, I'm against self serving, although since I've been playing for about two years now and got my first chance to shred in a circle about a month ago, I've been a bit of a self server.

What I'd like to know though is: If Dan didn't self serve and always passed back, when did he get a chance to shred himself?