Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

General footbag-related topics that don't fit elsewhere go in here.
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Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Strix » 28 Aug 2013 02:12

I got a bunch of questions / topics I wanted to touch on. Thought I would open one thread to cover it all. Please get in where you fit in or feel like :P

How to attract more female shredders to footbag . . .

I was reading some blog entry's and noticed some discussion brought up on this very topic and pondering ensued. I think Tracy had a nice idea going. I would also like to throw down some of my thoughts. The following is kinda an outsiders perspective.

Is the separation of women and men needed in footbag competition? I think this sport possesses the qualities to be a co-ed competitive sport ie: Girls vs Guys!! I think in this day and age that kind of segregation needs to vanish. Plus to think what attraction the sport may gain publicly at the idea of a co-ed sport!?!?! Hmm..

Something like that even in this modern age is revo-evo-lutionary....

Promoting Freestyle Footbag through / alongside Freestyle Football

Reading some other posts and articles on the promotion of the sport spurred more pondering. Nick touched on some great ideas that got me going. But then stumbling around youtube I came onto Scott Davidson's Channel. Scott has been putting in work on this topic for a long time. I wonder what other ideas or avenues the Enlightener might have to offer on the subject?

So my idea on this topic was as the link says Promoting Freestyle Footbag through / alongside Freestyle Football. Freestyle football seems to have allot of popularity . So it seems logical to try and co-op something with these events and tie the two together!?!? Its just one more avenue to gain further exposure.

Why Footbag should be in the Olympics

Ok last topic on my mind for this post ;) . Footbag in the Olympics?!?! Wow that would be sick. Its no different of an idea than Skateboarding in the Olympics. I read the thread linked above so I see the problems that are involved. But is it an impossible goal to think that footbag could achieve this? Or is it even wanted by the community?

Thanks for your time!!! Love, Peace, and Chicken Grease!!!

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Cass » 28 Aug 2013 02:55

While I fully intend to compete open in the future I think that at this point completely eliminating women's competition is a bad idea.

I feel that for a lot of people getting recognition in the sport is a very good source of inspiration/motivation. By eliminating women's events many of the best female players in the world will not get recognized for their skills because they may not hold up in open events.

I'm all for equality etc. and women should have every opportunity to compete open however if we want to encourage more ladies to play we need to highlight those that already do.



As for integration with football I'm all for this. It only makes sense.


I'm not even touching the olympics :P

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by boyle » 28 Aug 2013 04:13

Mr Abshire wrote this in the original thread, it still rings true.
Don't promote footbag as a competitive arena, but as a social arena for getting in shape. The focus of men in this sport may not have anything to do with the reasons women participate. Keep this in mind guys, women are more graceful. Have you ever seen Carol Wedemeyer do a blurrydrifter? Truly art in motion. The women who find the competitive arena to their liking will do well there. If you allow new people to enter without being forced to compete, there might be more players. Usually when a new female with any skill at all enters the sport, there at least 20 dumbass horndogs trying to sleep with her at her first event, that is the real reason for the female numbers. Guys quit running them off.
With things like run and other *social* activities ever-growing, there is no reason why footbag can't increase participation as well. There is no reason for girls and women not to get into the sport, and while males have more power, females are naturally more flexible, which could eventually see a shredita become the best player in the world.

I think there will always be room for a women only competition (much moreso than intermediate), but it would be great to see more women competing in open (you could always compete in both, as open is "open" and women's is a particular segment.

There is plenty of room for collaboration with freestyle football, and I think it's something we are seeing more of. The freestyle football world is becoming more organized (the players are doing the organizing, rather than some brand) - they can add their huge connections to brands, and there you go. We are starting to see more cool footbag/football videos, that one Paloma posted recently was great.

Olympics, that's something I don't really see happening in my lifetime, unless the Olympic movement runs out of money and is looking to host sports that are cheap to run. We don't have the player base to put pressure or the money base to bribe our way into the organization. There is no reason though that we can't go to events like the World Cup or Olympics and create our own event in the cities, giving an organic crowd of thousands.

What we may have potential to get into in the future are things like the World Games (it's basically the reserve grade Olympics, with sports that are not considered for the Olympics), also the World University Games would be another one.

I think something we can do more of - Honza and Vasek have been doing this a bit recently, is tack on to major events as entertainment. Things like tennis tournaments, basketball games, soccer matches, etc.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Cass » 28 Aug 2013 04:54

Usually when a new female with any skill at all enters the sport, there at least 20 dumbass horndogs trying to sleep with her at her first event, that is the real reason for the female numbers. Guys quit running them off.
This lol

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Strix » 28 Aug 2013 05:13

Cassy wrote:While I fully intend to compete open in the future I think that at this point completely eliminating women's competition is a bad idea.

I feel that for a lot of people getting recognition in the sport is a very good source of inspiration/motivation. By eliminating women's events many of the best female players in the world will not get recognized for their skills because they may not hold up in open events.

I'm all for equality etc. and women should have every opportunity to compete open however if we want to encourage more ladies to play we need to highlight those that already do.



As for integration with football I'm all for this. It only makes sense.


I'm not even touching the olympics :P
Thank you Cassy for that perspective on Women's comp. After thinking of it from that angle I see your logic. I can see how it would / could harm momentum for the ladies.

Footbag+Football=Perfect yeah!? hehe

One member on the second page of the Olympics topic brought up some negative issues with Footbag going to the Olympics. But I dont currently hold an opinion just yet.

Also, I laughed at what Abshire wrote about horndogs. But I would imagine there is more than that kind of stuff that can lead ladies to walk away?
boyle wrote:Mr Abshire wrote this in the original thread, it still rings true.
Don't promote footbag as a competitive arena, but as a social arena for getting in shape. The focus of men in this sport may not have anything to do with the reasons women participate. Keep this in mind guys, women are more graceful. Have you ever seen Carol Wedemeyer do a blurrydrifter? Truly art in motion. The women who find the competitive arena to their liking will do well there. If you allow new people to enter without being forced to compete, there might be more players. Usually when a new female with any skill at all enters the sport, there at least 20 dumbass horndogs trying to sleep with her at her first event, that is the real reason for the female numbers. Guys quit running them off.
With things like run and other *social* activities ever-growing, there is no reason why footbag can't increase participation as well. There is no reason for girls and women not to get into the sport, and while males have more power, females are naturally more flexible, which could eventually see a shredita become the best player in the world.

I think there will always be room for a women only competition (much moreso than intermediate), but it would be great to see more women competing in open (you could always compete in both, as open is "open" and women's is a particular segment.

There is plenty of room for collaboration with freestyle football, and I think it's something we are seeing more of. The freestyle football world is becoming more organized (the players are doing the organizing, rather than some brand) - they can add their huge connections to brands, and there you go. We are starting to see more cool footbag/football videos, that one Paloma posted recently was great.

Olympics, that's something I don't really see happening in my lifetime, unless the Olympic movement runs out of money and is looking to host sports that are cheap to run. We don't have the player base to put pressure or the money base to bribe our way into the organization. There is no reason though that we can't go to events like the World Cup or Olympics and create our own event in the cities, giving an organic crowd of thousands.

What we may have potential to get into in the future are things like the World Games (it's basically the reserve grade Olympics, with sports that are not considered for the Olympics), also the World University Games would be another one.

I think something we can do more of - Honza and Vasek have been doing this a bit recently, is tack on to major events as entertainment. Things like tennis tournaments, basketball games, soccer matches, etc.
I agree with Richy to. Well put. Thats why I thought integration and opting for more of a co-ed environment. But Cassy's points ring true as well. Like you said though if there is OPEN ladies should jump in and give the boys a run for their money.

Footbag+Football by no means is a new concept. But just given the new found increase in popularity of freestyle football, it would be good to jump on the wagon!! But what other options of promotion for footbag is there that may work the same way. Like I brought up Davidson's efforts, he has done great things for footbag.

Hmmm your ideas of other Olympic Alternatives sound ideal. Nice!!

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Asmus » 28 Aug 2013 06:43

I think in this day and age that kind of segregation needs to vanish (women/men).
I kinda agree. And there have been women who in their time that could compete with the men (Wedemeyer and Tina Aeberli comes to my mind). But these are few and far between examples, if there where 20 female competitors at Worlds and a few of them would go in the top10/finals then I would agree.

In Denmark we have had a few girls competing every year at the national champs, and they have competed alongside the men. Lise got 3rd overall 3 years in a row.
She still got the title as best female and also as 3rd overall.
Promoting Freestyle Footbag through / alongside Freestyle Football
Yes Footbag Freestyle get more attention than freestyle footbag does but other than that, what do they have to give us? Wouldn't we just be seen as some sideshow act? Footbag is a strong enough sport/activity to stand by it's own.
(Footbag in the Olympics)Or is it even wanted by the community?
This is far too far out in the future to be worthy of a discussion. Look at the requirements to even be considered for the olympics.

But for the question - is it wanted by the community? no, not for me atleast. I like footbag as a small close knit community and I don't think I would be as interested in it if it was a huge professional sport.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Cass » 28 Aug 2013 06:53

I think it is a good idea to have women compete open but also ranked separately.


But I would imagine there is more than that kind of stuff that can lead ladies to walk away?
I don't think that this is necessarily the case. The problem is that fewer women are interested in learning to play in the first place or don't stick with it long enough to learn how great it is.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by boyle » 28 Aug 2013 13:10

I think the biggest thing freestyle football can bring is exposure to bigger brands. However, like Asmus said, we can seem a sideshow. Footbag is strong enough to stand on its own. Though it could be fun to do some kind of all--around competitions with footbag and football.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Strix » 28 Aug 2013 16:14

@Asmus

Sure the quantity of ladies kickin is low as of now. But if the time ever arose that the numbers increased, I think there would be more to compare in terms of girls vs guys. I think this would step the game up as well.

But like Cassy pointed out. If there was no Womens comp. then the idea of co-ed comp. would detract from the recognition the ladies need. So it is counterproductive.

Co-ed comp. was an idea in works towards attracting more female players. I thought the idea of a sport that offered equality may be attractive. Not many sports offer that aspect so I thought that alone would be an interesting angle to kick around. What would be some good ways to attract more ladies to footbag?

Football vs footbag. Would footbag be a clown act at a football event? IDK, I dont think so. Its all in the planning, I have not done any event planning or brainstorming. I think an event that showcased both sports would require timing so that it allowed both to shine. There are many people that are trying to promote the sport be it entertainment at a car show or a halftime show. Is that not promotion while being a sideshow a clown act? But its publicity that may have gained the interest of a few.

I would agree about the Olympics. I think some standardization of the sport is still a ways out. As well is the player count is and balance is lacking. Hence the reasons for the first two topics. I think footbag a street level community sport is where it will be best. At the grass roots level, more of an art than just a sport. Thats MHO.

@Cassy
The problem is that fewer women are interested in learning to play in the first place or don't stick with it long enough to learn how great it is.
Why is that? Do you have any theories or ideas on how to change that problem?

@boyle

Doing freestyle football + footbag tourneys would just be another means of exposure. But could lead to bigger things, an evolution of the two by means of tricks and style.

I see some of the biggest differences between the two. I see style being the biggest. Hip Hop plays a much bigger involvement in football than it does in footbag. But its the flare and attitude ( Swagger )that the players bring to there game I see as well. At the ground level that is attractive to many people. When I watch the freestyle football people I get this feeling they adopted some of that swagger if you will from the freestyle b-ballers.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by DubleDex » 30 Aug 2013 05:40

Women:
Technically, "Open" freestyle is just that, "open to everyone." Women are allowed (encouraged) to compete at that level if they want. However, it is still critical to have women's specific category because that actually encourages them to compete in a more comfortable setting where they might not feel overwhelmed. Men tend to be excessively competitive, even in a sport that's as supportive as footbag.

That being said, Tina's open routine from last year (2012) would have EASILY held up (and done very well) in open. (This is my opinion, as I'm not a judge ... but it was an amazing routine). And, routine comp is the perfect place for women to start competing, because it isn't just about technical skill and adds, it's about the art of presentation. If you watch the top competitors (men or women) it's easy to see the ones who have a great understanding of that mix (Tina, Honza, Milan, Vasek and others. Peter Irish, my all-time fave, is another name that springs to mind as someone who understood the performance/entertainment aspect better than others).

When/if the number of women in the sport grows, I see it as completely conceivable that we see more women in Open. Especially because this sport is such a tight and supportive community. Everyone is going to be encouraging women to step up when they lay down epic runs and routines.

Footbag/Football:
Soccer has a massive global following. So freestyle football has already caught on to a degree that is almost upsetting to footbaggers. But, there are a couple of aspects of freestyle football that make it easier to grasp. First, the idea of kicking a soccer ball is already widely accepted. You see someone knee kicking or toe kicking a soccer ball, you immediately "get it". Then the fact that the ball is so much bigger, it makes it a lot easier to see and comprehend what's happening. That limits the complexity (in terms of dexes) you can accomplish with a football - which again makes it easier to actually tell what's going on. Visually you can put on a football freestyle routine in front of a much larger crowd with everyone in the back still being able to tell what's going on.

That being said, I think Honza and Vasek are really smart to not just attach footbag with football, but to actually develop some skill with that as well. It's a lot easier for a crowd to transition to watching footbag if they just watched football. Your mind goes, "Oh, now he's doing that same stuff but with a smaller bag... I get it!"

Even if it's viewed as a "supporting act" at least it's getting out there. How many huge bands used to be openers? Trust me, those guys don't go around going, "Man, I wish I'd never opened for that world-famous act, cause I know we were good enough to be the main act." There are probably thousands of bands that exist that are better than 90% of what you'll hear on the radio, but nobody has ever seen or heard of them. Exposure is critical.

Footbag doesn't get exposure from a bunch of shirtless guys shredding under a streetlight at some university or having an awesome circle shred on a rooftop (both of which ARE awesome for those involved, but not great for spreading the word). So attaching to something that's already recognized and basically mainstream (maybe football freestyle isn't yet "mainstream" but football certain is) can't be anything but good. It immediately legitimizes the sport and helps shred the stoner image.


Olympics:
Not going to happen. As already stated, there's no money in it and it's not a historically recognized or appreciated athletic undertaking. We could argue all day that curling is ridiculous, figure skating is just as complex to watch and understand as footbag, and beach volleyball is a relatively new addition that features two-on-two action. But all of those things have something footbag doesn't. Curling is simply recognized as a historical sport that warrants inclusion. Figure skating has been a worldwide competition with official sanctioning bodies and a LOT of money behind it. Beach volleyball has big corporate sponsorships (and, lets face it, athletic men and women in minimal amounts of clothing... can you say TV ratings?).

I think it would be FAR easier to make an argument for Footbag Net (or Takraw, even easier) being included in the Olympics. It's an easy to grasp concept: Volleyball with your feet. It's fast-paced and athletic. The visuals of people flinging their feet way up over the net to deliver a devastating spike is pretty awesome. Takraw has the added benefit of being a little bit more international/cultural than footbag net.

Overall, the money, the understanding, the sponsorship dollars, and the support just isn't there for footbag freestyle. As I argued in the thread about footbag being "alternative" ... I don't think the IDEA of footbag freestyle ever being in the Olympics is impossible. But realistically, it's not going to happen any time soon. Focusing on grass roots promotion and word of mouth (along with attaching to football freestyle) are the ways to start building the sport now.

The best thing about footbag is that if it grows, GREAT! Our sport gets recognized and we have the opportunity to meet more awesome people and have something we love legitimized, understood and respected a little more. But if it doesn't grow? We still have what we already have: A great community of people who all understand why we play a sport that involves kicking a little bag around with our feet and challenging ourselves to hit ever-more complex moves that, likely, only one tenth of one tenth of the world will ever understand. And that's okay.
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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by boyle » 30 Aug 2013 06:19

Great post, I agree with everything that you just said. It's particularly true about the bands starting out as an opening act. They don't regret opening up for a bigger band to get their start.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Strix » 30 Aug 2013 15:57

DubleDex wrote:Women:
Your points on keeping women's category are perfectly logical and understood. Thanks for that perspective.

Tina's routine was amazing. I agree it would have held up in open for sure. I love the performance/entertainment aspect of routines allot. I enjoy them far more than shred or most categories for the choreography that is involved.

I hope to see a better balance for open in the future. Whether the runs are epic or not.
DubleDex wrote:Footbag/Football:
I agree and see the logic in footballs association and understanding globally. It makes clear sense why it is more popular. Im glad people like Vasek and Honza are doing what they are doing. The same as the people that are doing videos and demos with one person with a football and the other with footbag. Smart.

Your analogy of rock bands growing from being opening acts is perfect. As is the idea that there are thousands of undergound bands that may be better than whats on the radio, just have not had the exposure yet. Its funny to think that freestyle or net footbag could still retain the stoner image in the public perception.

Not only would the collaboration of the two sports coming together be good for promotional reasons. I also think both sides have something to gain from learning each others play styles and moves. There is room for growth.
DubleDex wrote:Olympics:
I can see your points on footbag in the olympics. Although skateboarding for years was a grass roots sport as well. But companies that made the gear played the role of sponsors. The same can and is done within footbag. Its now a matter of getting larger endorsements the same way skateboarding grew. Skateboarding is far more popular than footbag and still is having trouble getting in the olympics.

I think your correct in thinking that footbag net may have a better association for the public in order to have a chance in the olympics. So I guess the same idea or logic of having footbag net events coupled with voleyball events would be good for growth as well?
DubleDex wrote: Overall, the money, the understanding, the sponsorship dollars, and the support just isn't there for footbag freestyle. As I argued in the thread about footbag being "alternative" ... I don't think the IDEA of footbag freestyle ever being in the Olympics is impossible. But realistically, it's not going to happen any time soon. Focusing on grass roots promotion and word of mouth (along with attaching to football freestyle) are the ways to start building the sport now.

The best thing about footbag is that if it grows, GREAT! Our sport gets recognized and we have the opportunity to meet more awesome people and have something we love legitimized, understood and respected a little more. But if it doesn't grow? We still have what we already have: A great community of people who all understand why we play a sport that involves kicking a little bag around with our feet and challenging ourselves to hit ever-more complex moves that, likely, only one tenth of one tenth of the world will ever understand. And that's okay.
Absolutely. Footbag will live on no matter what direction it go's. Whether the prestige of Olympics. Or just the way it is. Progress and change will continue regardless, thats just the nature of the thing. But growth in popularity is just some sort of confirmation that what thousands of people love is finally viewed as legit. I think it would be fine if Footbag never made it to the olympics. But to get a slot on pay per view television for the bigger championships would be great. I feel the same about Magic The Gathering. Poker and Pool get televised coverage but a game that is played by millions still does not get the attention it deserves.

Thanks DubleDex for posting your thoughts.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by C-Fan » 04 Sep 2013 10:58

For fun, go ahead and google the list of sports that are currently not in the Olympics. If Takraw (a sport played by WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more people than footbag net that is easier to follow and understand) isn't in the Olympics, then footbag net has no chance.

On a related note, the following sports are way more popular than any accounting of footbag: baseball, softball, cricket, rugby, windsurfing, lacrosse, golf, and ultimate frisbee.

None of these are in the Olympics. Don't hold your breath on footbag.

And this doesn't even get into the logistic hurdles required to be even recognized as a sport by the IOC. We're not even close on these.

Finally: other than visibility, what's the big advantage of being in the Olympics? It'd make it a bit easier to get sponsorships, but I doubt by much.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Outsider » 04 Sep 2013 14:00

I'm sorry to say that I have NOT actually read most of this --- so, I'm just shootin' from the hip a little...

Olympics Shmolympics. There's lots of sports that are already IN the Olympics that are barely noticed even when the Olympics is on television. That is, there are certain "Olympics Main Events" that almost everybody cares about, like the 100 Meter Dash (who's the Fastest Man Alive? Usain Bolt !! Yipee -- everybody knows his name and everybody seems to care, although hardly anybody really cares except for once every four years, and hardly anybody actually watches the Track And Field Worlds Championships in non-Olympic years, relative to all the people that watch the Olympics itself), and then there are all kinds of sports that are IN the Olympics that almost nobody actually watches or cares about anyway --- there are alot of track-cycling events in the Olympics, but they don't really get anywhere near as much exposure as the Main-Event track & field stuff or the Swimming or Gymnastics... Who's actually watching the Womens' Weight Lifting? Who actually watches the Archery? I think there is "Speed Walking" in the Olympics --- does anybody outside of the competitive speed-walking community really care even a tiny bit about who took home the gold medal for it in the London Olympics?

Teaming-Up with Freestyle Soccer. I'm not at all opposed to this. If anybody manages to arrange a small "side-show" footbag event at a Freestyle Soccer event, cool, count me in. But my personal day-dream for team-up events would be other small-time sports/games like footbag. I figure that there are numerous other events LIKE our own footbag events that have fewer participants than they'd like, and are all self-funded with almost no large sponsorship, and, like us, just don't have any real media exposure, etc. etc. I'd like to team-up with those kinds of sports. I see footbag as more of a game than a sport in that our game can be played very very casually. Some of the best footbag events don't have any sort of official competition what-so-ever, and we have lots of fun anyway. It can be an advantage to be a "game" instead of a "sport" in that sense --- we play just for fun, without even needing to keep score all the time. A sport is something with referees and judges and rules. A game can be played at music festivals and hemp festivals... Lets take advantage of THOSE kinds of venues, and lets team-up with Juggling Clubs and Frisbee clubs, etc. Thats the opportunities that I'd like to take advantage of, if I could find them.

Women competing directly against men. This is already happening half the time anyway. Basically, women have their own category AT WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS, and I'm completely in favor of keeping it that way. For now, and for the foreseeable future they ladies deserve the opportunity to compete only against their closest peers and earn their own World Champion titles, etc. On the other hand, at most smaller freestyle footbag competitions, we're lucky when we have even one female competitor good enough to be called an Open-Level competitor and one other female competitor who wants to try her luck in the intermediate category. Basically, there's just not enough women playing in total that we can even really expect to have a Women's category at the majority of footbag events. And, when there's not enough of 'em, and if they're willing, they can compete against the guys. Sometimes they even win (see my oft-repeated story of Carol Wedemeyer at 1998 Funtastiks), and when I say that I don't want to compete directly against Tina Aeberli, I mean that in a good way. If she were to show-up at the East Coast Championships this year, I'd reckon she'd be the top-seeded player, with, of course, a good likelihood of winning and taking the largest share of any prize-money, and yet, at Worlds, she should still have a "Womens' Category" to compete in instead of having to go head-to-head against Vasek, Honza, and Aleksi. Why? I don't know why I really need to elaborate any more --- res ipsa loquitur.

To combine those last two points, if we want more women to play footbag (and more people in general), then I think a more "game-like" atmosphere, less competitive and "drilling and training for my next comp" more "picknicking and jamming at the music festival" might be a better strategy. Now we just need to team-up and start heading-out "en mass" to local festival and concerts. I'm gonna go and show-off to all the hippies and hacky-slackers at the Catskill Chill music fest this weekend with Drew Martin and Mikie Etlinger, and I'll bet that we kick with more people this weekend than we kicked with at last year's East Coast Footbag Championships, and I'd say we had a pretty good turnout at the ECFC 2012. We'll probably kick with more women this weekend than we did at last year's ECFC. The trick is, the way I see it, that you've got to be willing to play a hacky-sack / circling kicking style of game. If I go there and just shred, I'll just be shredding with Drew and Mikie. If I want to play with lots of casual and less-skilled players, I need to be willing to play the circle kick game and share the bag around. I think footbag is just an evolutionary step up from hacky-sack, and we've become TOO highly evolved -- we're a victim of our own success -- its TOO hard to get involved for those who don't want to really sweat and bleed over it, and thus we've cut our game off to casual players, where-as the casual players used to be able to participate when the game was less elaborate and difficult.

Last random thought --- we should try hosting a "Music and Hacky Sack Festival" instead of a footbag competition. Lots of people who have no interest at all in footbag might show-up and have a good time with whatever music we're able to arrange, and some of them might get interested in kicking too. But first, we all need to learn to play an instrument...

just my 2 cents.
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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Strix » 04 Sep 2013 21:48

Thanks Jon for your 2 cents.

I like your thoughts on attracting more players to the GAME by way of casual kicking and just jammin at some fests. As well is the idea of teamin up with other games like footbag. Any kind of activity or event where footbag could fit in or associate is a start.

@Ken

IMHO Olympics are not the place for footbag. Most sports already have sponsors / supporters long before they get to the olympics. Many Xtreme sports have better economic support than some olympic recognized sports. Hell even freestyle football has Redbull backing it. Freestyle footbag could try to get similar backers. We dont need the Olympics to get bigger or better. In fact I think footbag stands a better chance of doing that without the Olympics.

But the primary focus of all three of these topics I brought up is growth. Player count ( quality and quantity ), support, exposure, etc....

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Asmus » 04 Sep 2013 23:41

Outsider wrote:Last random thought --- we should try hosting a "Music and Hacky Sack Festival" instead of a footbag competition. Lots of people who have no interest at all in footbag might show-up and have a good time with whatever music we're able to arrange, and some of them might get interested in kicking too. But first, we all need to learn to play an instrument...
I strongly agree about this - last years danish champs was a one day event in a very crowded park, we had hired three of the most popular young danish DJs to play between events and there was a huge tournout without basicly any promotion at all.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by boyle » 15 Sep 2013 14:19

PS Ken - Rugby (Sevens) and Golf are in for the 2016 Olympics in Brazil.

Jon's idea of the footbag and music festival could be a lot of fun. I'm sure there are plenty of us that know a band/DJ or two. The ongoing question though is will the "hacky sackers at a music festival" get into the footbag at competitions style of thing. That's it's own debate, though I think people like Nick Polini have really shown that if you encourage people in the right kind of way they get right into it.

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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by DubleDex » 23 Sep 2013 05:48

boyle wrote:The ongoing question though is will the "hacky sackers at a music festival" get into the footbag at competitions style of thing.
I think the idea here is more one of exposure than dedicated recruiting. It's like anything else: You may have to show a thousand people before you make even one meaningful impression. But you're NEVER going to reach that one kid if you're not out trying to reach a thousand.

The really cool part (that's harder to wrap your head around) is that it may not even be one of the people you talk to or demo some freestyle with. But one of those people—who is totally uninterested—may go and talk to their friend who loves soccer. Then THAT guy might look up footbag freestyle and see his first Vasek, or Honza, or Aleksi or Anybody video and he's hooked.

Several posts/discussions about growing the sport focus on the idea of making it "mainstream" or getting footbag more respect. While that's an admirable goal, you have to start somewhere. And that starting point is simply spreading the word. That's the spirit of almost any Outsider post on this subject, and I tend to agree. Lets worry less about whether the sport gets respect, and focus more on finding that one guy who IS passionate about it like we are. This sport is all about the people and the experience and how it makes us feel. And when you find more people that "get it" (for instance, the Nick Polini's of the world), then that's when the sport grows. And it grows in a really natural way. Plus you still have Honza and Vasek (and a bunch of others) really elevating the spotlight on the sport.

Heck, I'd take being able to find 5 guys to kick with on a regular basis over footbag being in the Olympics any day!
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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by Outsider » 23 Sep 2013 09:53

boyle wrote:The ongoing question though is will the "hacky sackers at a music festival" get into the footbag at competitions style of thing. That's it's own debate
Just to clarify my own position --- I'm not trying to say that Hacky Sackers necessarily need to be converted into freestyle and/or net players. I know that it might be a little bit rare these days, but I was a hacky-sack enthusiast in my teens, with no knowledge of, nor a desire for, some more organized sport-aspect of the game. It didn't occur to me that such a thing existed, but I loved to Hack. I found footbag freestyle, and I was mostly hooked immediately. Over time, though, I've come to appreciate the informal Hack for its own positive aspects. I recognize that they are, to some extent, completely different (though obviously closely related) games. I love them both. I have known, from time to time, some very cool, very impressive Hack enthusiasts who have been playing regularly for many years. Some of them KNOW about footbag freestyle, and they're just not interested. I don't blame them --- they love what they do, and I love what they do, and I don't intend to try to change their minds. I just think that they should be natural allies of footbag freestyle and footbag net, and that we should all be working together. I think that we could all participate in the same big festival, without necessarily dictating to them in what style they should play.

Imagine for a moment --- at any given ordinary large footbag tournament with both Net and Freestyle --- are freestylers really trying to gain new members in our game by encouraging the net players to give-up playing net in shred with us instead? And do the net players try to do that to freestylers? Well, sure, I suppose that there is a little bit of that going on, but not in any serious way --- we all know that this is just robbing Peter to pay Paul... and that is NOT why we still have combined events of both Net and Freestyle --- it is tougher to arrange a tournament that has both major disciplines, but these two different games (and the players there-of) are natural allies that provide mutual support.

Lets add a third major discipline to our ranks -- the circle hackers, lets support them in the way they play, and gain their support in return, and all have a good time together. Maybe when the freestylers' legs are burnt-out from too many Atom Smashers and Blurry Whirls that day, they might try joining in a good Hack Circle for an hour or two instead, and NOT try convert the hackers into freestylers by being a hack-hog and a show-off... You might even have some fun, and they, even if they don't want to hit Atom Smashers and Paradox Torques all day, might enjoy a little bit of spectatorship watching our Finals rounds too, while they take a cigarette break...

(In my own oppinion, freestyle footbaggers have long been dismissive and disdainful of hacky-sack circle kickers, and this hasn't done us any damn good -- lets try the opposite of that instead).
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Re: Multi-Thought / Topic Discussion Thread...

Post by C-Fan » 23 Sep 2013 10:39

Good call Jon.

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