What do you Think about "God"? "Disciple"

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What do you Think about "God"? "Disciple"

Post by TheLast » 15 Jul 2010 22:41

hey guys, i just wanted to talk you about this song called "disciple" from slayer, a really good one

lyrics:

Disciple
Slayer
Drones since the dawn of time
Compelled to live your sheltered lives
Not once has anyone ever seen
Such a rise of pure hypocrisy
I'll instigate I'll free your mind
I'll show you what I've known all this time

God hates us all, God hates us all
You know it's true God hates this place
You know it's true he hates this race

Homicide-Suicide
Hate heals, you should try it sometime
Strive for peace with acts of war
The beauty of death we all adore
I have no faith distracting me
I know why your prayers will never be answered

God hates us all; God hates us all
God hates us all; God hates us all
Yeah He fuckin' hates me

Pessimist, terrorist targeting the next mark
Global chaos feeding on hysteria
Cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back fair game
Drug abuse, self abuse searching for the next high
Sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time
I'm waiting for the day the whole world fucking dies

I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow

Man made virus infecting the world
Self-destruct human time bomb
What if there is no God would you think the fuckin' same
Wasting your life in a leap of blind faith
Wake the fuck up can't ignore what I say
I got my own philosophy

I hate everyone equally
You can't tear that out of me
No segregation - separation
Just me in my world of enemies

I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow
I'll never be the one to bear the cross-disciple

I reject this fuckin' race
I despise this fuckin' place



here is the song if you want to listen to it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS0mQ25ezq4



so?
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Post by habitat » 15 Jul 2010 22:46

Its a Slayer song....

?
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Post by Jeremy » 16 Jul 2010 02:54

Sounds terrible. I'm not sure what it's trying to say.

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Post by TheLast » 16 Jul 2010 14:05

fuck damn guys. I mean about the lyrics meaning, how people blindly follow religions acting like brainless cows.... i mean what do you guys think about that?
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Post by Jeremy » 16 Jul 2010 15:19

Sorry, I realise that using the word "sound" in my post was confusing. I haven't heard the song, I just think the lyrics are terrible and I don't understand them.

I agree with the sentiment that you've expressed. Of all the theories of why people are religious, the one I like most is that it's a meme virus. It's clearly not rational to be religious anyway, at least in our society.

On the other hand, what does he mean when he says "god hates us all?" Is he saying that the world is fucked up because of religion, or is he glorifying some of the problems of the world? I can't tell.

Also he says that he has his own philosophy and then talks about hating everything. That's a terrible philosophy, and it's terrible for the religion argument too, because the lyrics of the song seem to display exactly the argument religious people make that if you're not religious then you'll be a nihilist. This argument is obviously completely false, and shows what puny intellectual abilities they have, but here is an example, I think, where it seems to be true.

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Post by crazylegs32 » 17 Jul 2010 22:46

My friend from high school got arrested and I saw the story in the paper. He was a repeat bank robber, and in the security camera tape he was wearing the same slayer shirt he wore in high school 15 years before :D Thats all I know about slayer.

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Post by Ramen God » 18 Jul 2010 05:16

I listened to it. I hate it.

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Post by PoisonTaffy » 18 Jul 2010 06:27

It's hard reading lyrics to songs you don't know. I sort of glanced through. I don't see the problem with "god hates us all" - makes more sense to me than the Jewish prayer "Oh merciful god".
If there is a god and it gives special attention to human affairs specifically, like most religions claim, the attitude exhibited is more related to hate rather than mercy, seeing how miserable human existence can be, especially when the misery is brought upon by other humans.
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Post by habitat » 18 Jul 2010 12:44

Let's all hate on God and call all religious people brainwashed, brainless idiots. To be honest, most religious people I know and talk to basically know it's bullshit. The societal benefits (in USA) from participating in religion far outweigh non-participation. They aren't brainless, they choose to "believe" knowing all the contradictions and fallacies to seek community acceptance, social welfare and access to activities. Most everyday critics of religion seem to think everyone is a fundamentalist and that's probably because that's how the media almost always portrays them. I can't believe I sound like a religious apologetic. Excuse me. 8)

And in relation to the song, every Slayer song sounds/reads like this. Actually almost every thrash song is like this. It's a trend to hate God in thrash because it's anti-establishment and shocking. I doubt they even really believe half of this stuff if you talked to them face to face. But yeah, let it empower you to increase the hate in the world. I'm sure that will lead to a peaceful world.
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Post by PoisonTaffy » 18 Jul 2010 12:57

The debate is hardly ever about the people who don't take it too seriously. Unfortunately, there are enough who do.
"Childhood is short, immaturity is forever"

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Post by habitat » 18 Jul 2010 13:19

PoisonTaffy wrote:Unfortunately, there are enough who do.
Cool. Now what?
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Post by PoisonTaffy » 18 Jul 2010 13:56

Since the post started with a "what do you think of this song's lyrics" question, I don't have a clear definition of what we're debating here beyond that, so I don't know what.

I want to say that hate is childish, nonconstructive etc etc, but I downright despise people who make it their life's work to infect other people with their religion, I'd be a hypocrite to state otherwise. I've failed to see the silver lining in that sort of activity.
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Post by habitat » 18 Jul 2010 16:20

So religion=rape?
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Post by Jeremy » 19 Jul 2010 02:46

My issue with the "God hates us all" lyric is that that assumes God exists. Is the song claiming that God exists or not? If it's claiming that God doesn't exist, as it seems to be, then when it says "God hates us all," is that a metaphor? That's certainly how I interpreted it, and I interpreted it to mean that the world is fucked up and we should give up hope. I can't agree with that sentiment.

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Post by FlexThis » 21 Jul 2010 14:05

habitat wrote:Let's all hate on God and call all religious people brainwashed, brainless idiots. To be honest, most religious people I know and talk to basically know it's bullshit. The societal benefits (in USA) from participating in religion far outweigh non-participation. They aren't brainless, they choose to "believe" knowing all the contradictions and fallacies to seek community acceptance, social welfare and access to activities. Most everyday critics of religion seem to think everyone is a fundamentalist and that's probably because that's how the media almost always portrays them. I can't believe I sound like a religious apologetic. Excuse me. 8)
This is called hypocrisy in the Bible Belt, and the people DO in fact believe in Heaven and Hell and all that jazz for the most part in the south. In California it is how you describe it. As a social community networking thing.

However, it is for both reasons that I do not attend church period, here in CA or in the South. It's just so fake.

~peace
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Post by FlexThis » 21 Jul 2010 14:12

Slayer is a shock group as mentioned. My little sister (28 now) listened to this garbage back in the day.

What I take from it is that we fight wars in the name of God. For the Muslim extremists, it's a jihad on America and western society. For the Christians its literally a war for God. Remember the Crusades? Both sides are fighting in the name of religion. God hates us because we are killing one another in his name. Otherwise, we wouldn't be killing each other at all. And then of course God would love us and Slayer would not have a song to sing.

Personally I think Slayer sucks ass and I'd rather listen to "Mother" by Danzig!

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Post by TheLast » 21 Jul 2010 16:21

glad to see many opinions... i really would like to say what i think about this, but its hard to explain myself in english...

Actually almost every thrash song is like this.

wrong my friend, completly wrong
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Post by Jeremy » 21 Jul 2010 18:01

Interesting interpretation Damon, but a lot of the lyrics seem to be suggesting an opinion that God doesn't exist, which makes me think the hating God is metaphoric. When he talks about freeing minds, religion being brainwash and not having any faith, these are the kinds of things that seem much more aligned with atheism than with religious belief.

Regarding James' comment about the social benefits of religion, while I agree that many people participate in religious events for the social benefit, numerous studies have shown that a very large percentage of Americans have strong religious beliefs. I believe it's a pew study recently that found that 22% of Americans are "positive" that Jesus will return to Earth within the next 50 years and another 22% think that it's likely to occur.

The younger generation, which is your generation are much less religious than their parents, which is perhaps why you don't know many strongly religious people.

I disagree with the claim that; "The societal benefits (in USA) from participating in religion far outweigh non-participation." For starters that's just speculation, but I would also contend that their are many activities that offer the same kinds of support networks and community that religion offers. I would agree that there is a significant percentage of the population, both in the US and other countries that are what I call "apatheists," and by not being religious, who tend to be politically and philosophically uneducated, non religious, highly materialist and shallow. These people often don't belong to any kinds of community and have no activities in their lives that deal with causes bigger and more important than themselves (or the perception of such causes). For these people, joining a religion, or finding any kind of community would definitely be beneficial.

There was a study a few years ago that found that religious people have lower suicide rates than non-religious people, but greater analysis found this was caused by 2 things. Firstly the "apatheists" have a much higher rate of suicide than people who have any kind of community, and secondly non-religious people are much more likely to support euthanasia. It turns out that being religious or not, if you don't have a terminal illness, has no direct impact on suicide - but belonging to communities or not does. In this light we can view things like footbag, sport, bird watching clubs, even things like internet forums, WoW, and even your job as potential alternatives to religion that offer the same benefits. Of course these things aren't really opposed to each other, you can belong to multiple communities, and I'm sure most of us do.

So there's no real doubt that in some context religion has benefits, but those benefits can be gained just as easily through non-religious activities as well. I agree that religious people are mainly not "brainless" and indeed there are plenty of moronic non-religious people as well. Religion, however, definitely is an example of brainwashing and a lack of good critical thinking skills. That's why the main predictor of a person's religious belief is the beliefs of their parents. People like me, who have a different set of beliefs to their parents make up only 20% of the population, although it's much higher amongst young people in Western societies.

Finally in regard to this comment; "Most everyday critics of religion seem to think everyone is a fundamentalist and that's probably because that's how the media almost always portrays them. " - I don't think that's true at all. If you read books like The God Delusion, god is Not Great, The End of Faith or Breaking the Spell which are the 4 most famous and popular atheist books of the so called "new atheists" then all 4 specifically state that not all religious people are fundamentalists and specifically address non-fundamentalist religious people as well as fundamentalist positions. In fact that argument that they seem to think that all religious people are fundamentalists is one raised only by the religious people they criticise in a weak attempt to discredit their work in a manner that allows them to dismiss it without having to address the actual content.

For example Sam Harris in End Of Faith talks about moderate Islam and how when terrorist attacks occur or teenage girls are stoned to death, their response is defensiveness and token condemnation, and that by not condemning such actions in the strongest possible manner they give weight to the the extremists. All 4 authors talk about how everything fundamentalists believe is as logically acceptable as the beliefs of moderates, and that the error they make is not in their interpretations of documents, but in their faith, or belief without evidence. There's no more reason to think that Osama Bin Ladin is right as there is to think that John Spong is right, and so the only logical way to assert that Osama Bin Ladin is wrong is to attack faith itself. Instead of faith we should have doubt. We should question things and ask for evidence and reason to believe that they're true. We should accept the imperfection of humanity and ourselves and be prepared to change our minds if the evidence is strong enough.

Last semester I attended a debate on the question of; "Christianity is irrational." It was organised by the Anglican Church - one of the most moderate and tolerant religious organisations going around. The audience was mainly made up of Anglicans. The speaker in favour, Australian Rationalist Society president Ian Robinson started by asking all the Christians to raise their hands. Then he asked them to keep their hands up if, by the end of the debate, if he had argued a strong enough case, they would give up their beliefs. Everybody put their hand down.

The argument of the "new atheists" and rational anti-religious people isn't that different religious beliefs and actions are just as bad as each other. It's that all religions make the same logical mistake, and that we can't claim that the actions of any religious people are wrong without attacking that mistake. If Osama Bin Ladin is correct in his religious beliefs then his actions are morally correct. It's only if his beliefs are wrong that his actions are immoral. On what basis can we argue that his beliefs are wrong, except by attacking the idea of "faith."

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Post by TheLast » 21 Jul 2010 22:31

We should question things and ask for evidence and reason to believe that they're true. We should accept the imperfection of humanity and ourselves and be prepared to change our minds if the evidence is strong enough.

agreed, and all what you set.

I can't really say anything about religion in USA because i've never been there, but.. in my country the religion its something sad, atleast thats what i think. they are always talking about moral, and what's wrong and what is good, but they are the first shiting the things, i mean, by their concept of moral, they are really bad people.... there is to much hypocrisy around here...... (sry for the bad english)
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Post by TheLast » 24 Jul 2010 17:08

about the part that says: "I hate everyone equally"

i think thye mean that everyone is equal to them, i mean that no one is more or less important, that everyone has the same rights
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