Self Serving

MegaFighter_X · Post by **MegaFighter_X** » 01 Sep 2003 10:14

Well, Saturday I was really good about the self serving thing. I only did it like once or twice in the circle, and when I realized I did, I passed it (at least I think I did.). Even when I was in the conservitive circle and missed the first toe delay, I passed it. You can't say that's not improvement.

But I did notice that the bag got around pretty quickly, so I could attempt the toe delay again just to fuck it up. Once I got past the toe stall, however, I was able to keep it up for 3-7 contacts most of the time.

I feel it depends on the situation. Like I told MJK after school in a circle, "Oops, I thought becuase this was a school circle I could self serve." Usually at school it's very casual, therefore selfserve-o-rama!!! But in shred circles, I usually try not to self serve.

pillar · Post by **pillar** » 03 Sep 2003 01:51

I am not a big fun of self serving either. I try not to do it at all. It just makes the circle flow better and makes it look & feel better. It is hard not to self-serve in a circle where everyone else is doing it, though.

BUT, There is another aspect of this that I thought could be mentioned. I think the pass you make to the next player is important as well. It should be the kind of throw that the next player can kick it and start from it. It bothers me sometimes when people don't put any effort into these throws and you have to go and pick them up or hand catch them. It almost forces you to start by self serving it to you. Also when you make a good pass to the next, they catch it by hand, not even trying to start straight from there. Interesting thing that I've noticed is that that almost always goes with self-serving. I can't remember seeing a person doing this if he doesn't self-serve as well. And those two habbits together can annoy me sometimes. But I won't get all mad about it and start dissin' them or anything - it just doesn't feel right inside of me.

I think the best thing we can do about getting rid of self-serving is to show the example. New players should also politely be told about it at first. Eventually they will get the point of not doing it. But I don't think forcing it too hard is a good idea. It only makes people want to rebel. The same goes for those passes. Give the best passes possible and thank the person (who doesn't normally make good passes) for the one good pass he/she makes

. Next time he/she is more likely to give you a good pass.

Juha Linnanen

ps. after all that I have to admit that I do some self-serving if I'm just kicking it with my brother and we are skooling tricks. But Shred Circle is different for me. Keep those circles clean

. A circle without self serving, with good passes, with encouraging high five's and throw in some good music is the circle I enjoy the most.

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 03 Sep 2003 20:05

Yeah, 2 person circles are different.

So Allan, did you change your name because of the talk of annonymitty (whoa! spell that right without looking, I dare ya) or because you are trying to break from the nickname Dizzy? Even if you don't want it as a BAP name, I still think its cool.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 Sep 2003 00:28

AllanHaggett wrote:
Jeremy wrote:Yeah, I'm against self serving, although since I've been playing for about two years now and got my first chance to shred in a circle about a month ago, I've been a bit of a self server.
I'm *really* not trying to pick on you Jeremy, but WTF?

-A

I think it's pretty obvious. I played by myself for a year and a half and then played in a circle once - december 2002 and then didn't play in another circle until moving to melbourne 3 months after that. My original anti selfserving was based I guess on what I thought was right, while my now pro self serving belief is based on my actual experiences.

Post by **Allan** » 04 Sep 2003 22:08

FootbagginBum wrote: So Allan, did you change your name because of the talk of annonymitty

Yes

I figured I should practice what I preach.

It'll be a moot point soon.

-A

Post by **Allan** » 04 Sep 2003 22:11

Sorry for the double post.

Jeremy wrote: My original anti selfserving was based I guess on what I thought was right, while my now pro self serving belief is based on my actual experiences.

Sorry if it seemed like I was hassling you - that was more private email type discussion.....

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 04 Sep 2003 22:31

that's cool - I don't really mind that much being hassled by bappers...

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 08 Sep 2003 10:44

There are really only two arguments that I can think of that could possibly justify the self serve. 1) you're playing solo or 2) if the next player literally halts your pass to them by saying "keep it" (and even in this instance the proud player in my opinion should say "it's all good.. I'll hit my trick on the first try next time around")

I can't believe it took my "NO" vote to make this poll 50-50.. That makes me sick to my stomach. I was at Funtastiks and was outnumbered by self-servers at times.. I wanted to scream. Then I went and played with Peter and Lon Irish. And it was all courteous and passing and encouragement. No self serves. And people were watching us and enjoying it. We all got plenty of time to play. Three completely different levels of players. All with the same philosophy. And it was great. Just pass the bag. We'll pass it back or it will come around again. Self serving is self serving. I'd prefer to play with someone more giving than that.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 08 Sep 2003 23:41

It's funny that the two main arguments used against self serving are:
1) I don't get enough of the bag.
2) It's selfish to self serve.
Now I think these arguments have mainly came from different people, but it seems like there is a massive difference of opinion between non selfservers. I think self serving in moderation is a good compromise because you do get enough of the bag (generally in our circles everybody has the footbag for about equal time) and everybody is equally selfish

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 08 Sep 2003 23:52

To be honest though - I think it really depends on the players. In our circles we try to have a mix of levels (if we have more than one circle) so that there are good players with weak players and we have a lot of self serving. But there is a lot less selfserving when only the good players turn up becuase we generally all hit longer runs. I think that the better you get the less you should self serve. But when you can only hit runs of three or four moves - definitly keep self serving because I think it's more important to get better than anything else. I'm sure someones going to suggest that in that case you should go off and school by yourself or with people of equal level before coming back, but I think that's stupid. I spent a year and half playing by myself and learnt 8 new guiltless moves on my first kick with other people. Playing with other people is the way to improve. Also in some places you may have enough players for the new players to all play by themselves but again they won't learn as quickly and in Melbourne we want to lift the level to as high as possible - not letting newbies play with us or having them be in circles where they have three contact runs while other people have 15-30, might make them not want to play with us.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 09 Sep 2003 03:47

I hear ya (I really do) but I respectfully disagree with your tactics. I am super generous with pass backs when there's a "1 Trick Newbie" standing next to me. I mean really.. I'll give him or her 2 or 3 pass backs everytime in most instances. It ends up having the same ultimate purpose (more tries for someone that is trying to learn from more experienced players) and has the upside of teaching good "footbag manners" and also to spread that sense of community that's been mentioned a lot of times. I know it sounds kinda cheezy maybe, but that sense of community and friendship is what I really love about this game. It's fundamental. It's just plain nice. Sure it's "less efficient" than just serving to yourself, but for gods sake, we're playing a game.. It ain't supposed to be efficient, it's supposed to make you feel good. Passing the bag makes everyone happy. I've never seen someone grumpy after passing the bag. The crowd likes the pass too. It's one of those "awwww.. warm fuzzy" things that is so rare in every other sport. Let's continue to differentiate our sport not only by how hard we can bust, but by how cool we are to each other. Pass the bag. Pass it back. Nice hand toss. Or a little toe flick. For the (literally) 2 seconds it takes you're not changing the world, but you are spreading something nice. Really, just try it religiously and explain the philosophy to those that are confused or not informed.. After awhile it's just a way of life. A good way of life. The footbag way of life.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » 09 Sep 2003 17:29

Reading that makes me want to change.
Rieferman, I've been converted.
Im done with my self serving ways.

My name is Johnny and I am a recovering self server.

Paul Toews · Post by **Paul Toews** » 10 Sep 2003 07:53

Hiiiiiiiiiiiii Johnny!

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 24 Sep 2003 15:15

I think I'm down to maybe 3 self-serves in about 5 hours of shred, and that's usually because I'm trying something specific. However, there are other instances when SS is allowed in our circle. When we start getting tired, we sometimes call a combo (something we haven't tried before or are having trouble hitting), and we usually have 3 attempts. You hit it, you keep going, you don't hit it in 3 attempts, pass it on.
There is also Adam Kinsbury who kicks in our modist circle. He's just started hitting consec mirages and pixies and is working like hell trying to nail clippers and butterflys. I'll usually let his SS'ing slide. He usually only has a few attempts, and he's not having too many big contact runs, so it's all cool.
Adam Fox on the other hand is hitting some cool shit, so I'll come down on him like a tonne of bricks if he SS.

I'm sure there was a point to this post, but right now I cant think of what it is... Never mind.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 16 Oct 2003 05:28

Y'all know my beliefs already, but here's a funny story on this topic:

A couple weeks ago Philly Footworks was featured at a local street festival. We're shredding in the street all day. It was good times. Anyhow, Mike Adumchuck (last name sp?) had to pause his shred for a second because some spectators disrupted the circle. After the pause, he used his toe to smoosh the footbag (which was already on his toe) onto his toe more firmly.. I was not looking directly, and thought that I saw (out of the corner of my eye) him do a toe pickup off the ground.. So he sets the bag to start his run.. I snag the bag out of mid air with my hand and pass to the next guy. I know it's rude.. But I do these things as the "elder statesman" of Philly Footworks.. And I'd only really diss like this to a buddy that knows I'm just busting his chops etc. So, it was all in good fun really, but it was still a diss.. So Mike is like "What did I do?" and I was like "You self served.. you didn't even realize it?!?!" he just shrugged thinking I must be right and he was just on auto-pilot (because I've busted him for this for real before). However... Later on I was watching video of the festival.. His serve was not a self serve at all.. It was completely legit!! I falsely accused and dissed my buddy shredder!! Ha! Had a good laugh about that with Benham afterwards.. Still have to apologize to Mike when I see him.

End of story.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 03 Nov 2003 07:36

Btw.. I'm happy to notice that as of this post, the "no self serve" poll option has captured more than 50% share..

Josh B · Post by **Josh B** » 07 Nov 2003 04:58

Rieferman wrote:...Anyhow, Mike Adumchuck (last name sp?)...

End of story.

..adamczyk. and yes that was funny.
and as for my stands on self serving, unless your playing solo or playing in like a 2 man training-ish circle (and the other shredder is ok with this), theres no reason to self serve.

gibsonian · Post by **gibsonian** » 18 Nov 2003 22:03

When I play, I have this cardboard cutout of Ronald McDonald. So whenever I drop, I kick my bag at it, and it gives it back. That way I don't have to self serve, cause I don't believe in it. But I can self serve through the hole in the sheet. ( <--- Last sentence is a very obscure reference to the show Upright Citizens Brigade, used to play on comedy central, it was the best show ever).

LameR · Post by **LameR** » 18 Nov 2003 22:24

My opinion on this matter has changed. I believe it is ok to self serve if you're trying to nail a move but no more than like 2 times in a row. It's boring to watch someone fail at a move more than twice.

Josh B · Post by **Josh B** » 19 Nov 2003 13:55

gibsonian wrote:When I play, I have this cardboard cutout of Ronald McDonald. So whenever I drop, I kick my bag at it, and it gives it back. That way I don't have to self serve, cause I don't believe in it. But I can self serve through the hole in the sheet. ( <--- Last sentence is a very obscure reference to the show Upright Citizens Brigade, used to play on comedy central, it was the best show ever).

wanna come upstairs to see my time machine and meet jesus??

man that show was awesome. they should come out with like...a dvd box set for it. same with chapelles show.

ps. PRRrrrRRRrrrrr!

Self Serving

Do you self serve in a circle?