Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by C-Fan » 12 Jun 2015 11:23

Top post Australian painting:

Image
Moyes Bay, by Frederick McCubbin.

The other day on a walk with the wife, I told one of my favorite stories of you. It was at 2009 Worlds, on the basketball courts by the hostel. I had just met your friend Dan, and when he said his name was Dan I commented:

Ken: That's easy to remember. Dan Ednie, Dan Boyle, new Dan.
Dan Boyle: Yeah, this year all the Australians are Dans
Ken: ...yeah, except for Caroline Birch.
Dan Boyle (not missing a beat): No, she's a Dan as well.

:lol:

That still makes me laugh to this day.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 13 Jun 2015 19:58

That was a great time in Berlin, can't wait to go there again. I haven't seen that painting before, looks good.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Jeremy » 13 Jun 2015 21:58

I think whirr v food on paper is very hard to judge. Food is more interesting. Whirr is probably harder, generally, although what trick people find hard depends a lot on what they've practiced, so I wouldn't expect everybody to find whirr harder than food. I think though I hit whirr first or second attempt and everybody on the sideline started saying "that's winning" so I just tried some hard random tricks to keep the crowd happy. I hit whirr very comfortably usually, and spent a long time trying to get a nice form on it, so hopefully it looked clean and easy. I definitely wasn't sure if I'd win or not with that after Dan hit food, but it was a good safety that I knew would be competitive for first and wouldn't potentially eat up a lot of attempts (I think we had 5 total).

Also thanks for putting on a great event Dan. Maybe Aus Champs at the same venue later in the year, I can use my free accommodation :D

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Lycanthrope » 14 Jun 2015 02:09

We definitely need deeper thought when approaching these types of problems in footbags, so let's try to break it down farther. If I were taking my time to judge, this is what I would consider:

So they're both two dexes, that's a given.

Whir has two dexes with the same leg which is harder. If you compare nemesis to archnemesis, then the archnem is harder because one leg has to do so much in so little time, therefore this is definitely an advantage. (+1) There is also a quick foot switch at the very beginning of the trick. (+1) The bag path is straight up and down, which is not very risky.

Food processor divides the dexes so it has less dex density per leg. There is the quick stepping set at the beginning. (+1) The rotation of the body around the bag definitely adds a lot. (+1) The bag path is usually parabolic which is more risky than the straight set of the whir. (+1)

A lot of the comparison should revolve around cleanliness and execution in a sick one, but if they were both executed perfectly, I would have to give the edge to the food processor. I guess if you just compared adds in this situation, it would yield the same result. Also, the consecutive record for whir is far higher than the record for food processor, which suggests that food processor is a harder trick.
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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Jeremy » 14 Jun 2015 15:12

I reckon the food processor record is lower than the whirr record because stepping out of blender is reasonably hard, while whirling out of a whirl is not.

I definitely think variety of components should be an important part of sick 1, and food processor smashes whirr on that criteria - Food is essentially three components (stepping, whirl, osis), while whirr is one (whirl). I'd like to see sick 1 (and 3) judged on the three criteria weighted equally of diversity (ie. number of components and how different each one is), difficulty, and execution. All are a bit subjective, but I tend to consider those are what makes a trick exciting to watch, and add to the difficulty. In a lot of competitions I think diversity and execution are completely ignored.

In terms of difficulty I've been thinking of trick components in binary terms of easy and hard lately. I consider whirr to be two hard components. I think of food as one easy and one hard (I don't divide blender up into two separate components in this context). I haven't completely worked out how they compare, but it corresponds more with my view of food as one of the easiest 6s, and essentially only slighter than pdx blender, which is one of the easiest 5s, while whirr is one of hardest conventional 4s. When I watch videos I tend to look for the hard components and links of hard components more than anything else. But of course it's all relative too - I consider blender a hard component but obviously it's an easy trick on its own etc. The components around a component contribute to its difficulty far more than the individual component. (eg. the butterfly in janiwalker>high plains drifter is much harder than the blender in butterfly>blender>butterfly).

Edit; Also if people don't set straight up and down on any trick, I'd consider that bad execution and mark them down on it.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Lycanthrope » 14 Jun 2015 21:30

It's just unfortunate that we don't have a consistent system to judge this kind of stuff. It makes choosing judges risky and meaningful.

I was pretty with you for most of that. While judging something like this I would pretty much completely ignore the adds. I don't think that the bag path should be straight up for ALL tricks. While even ducking is arguably that way, something like fairy twirl is pretty much impossible with a linear bag path.

The difficulty, diversity, execution system makes sense. Take furious ss barrage though for example. High difficulty, One concept, and if the execution isn't ideal, let's say that the furious set is solid and the judge is only concerned about the fourth dex being thin not the, could it lose to a well executed food processor which would have fair difficulty, two concepts, and good execution?

There are always special examples, and I dont mean to give you a hard time, I just mean to test your system.
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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Add Block » 14 Jun 2015 21:41

Jeremy wrote:
Edit; Also if people don't set straight up and down on any trick, I'd consider that bad execution and mark them down on it.
This has been discussed before. That's a preference. You don't judge based on preference.

Take Bedwetter for example, if you set the bag diagonally and then jump to the side into the Eggbeater, like Aleksi does, to me it looks much better. Is it easier that way? Hell no, much harder, but I'm not asking to get extra points, just to not get negative points either.

Evan: If we start ranking clean Food higher than anything with butchered Barrage for example, there will be a reason to submit stuff people are good at and can hit clean.

Imagine if Big One had to be done with an XL bag, on both sides and the main category would be cleanliness. Now that's obviously never going to happen, but judging would be kind of easy then. :)
I hate bad form and I'm a hypocrite.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 15 Jun 2015 02:48

Some interesting comments from all. I think the reality is there are always going to be big differences on such a subjective subject. It's interesting that everyone hates shred 30, but there is not much questionable (sure you can question the adds themselves, but that's the system used, and you win by scoring the most points.)

Unfortunately we can't settle this particular debate with a video as it seems that part was not filmed :/ I will have to check all the footage, I might not have transferred it all over.

It's interesting, I was a bit disappointed in my performances, but it was all a bit rushed, and in reality I can't hit much better than food in a sick 1 anyway. My sick 3 was not really what I was hoping for, I have a fair few 5>5>5 combos that I have under control and didn't come anywhere near them.

On something that Jeremy mentioned, I think it would be cool to do nationals there. I had been thinking Canberra in this place I mentioned a while ago, but Sydney is easiest for everyone, the hostel treated us really well and we could make a bigger deal out of it with a nationals.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/Z0YS50QNoo8[/youtube]

At the event we had a freestyle football competition, which I went in as well. You can see some parts of my first battle around the 2 minute mark. I did reasonably well in that one, but then still lost to someone half my age. Things only got worse from there...



Anyway, this might get a whole lot more comments on a different subject. (And should probably have its own post, but too late now) I have been thinking for some time of trying to create some kind Fantasy Footbag thing. Fantasy competitions for all sports are only getting more and more popular, and it would be a good way of keeping interest for those who are not able to get to the competitions, or even those who don't really play much anymore.

I have been thinking along the lines of how to get some kind of ranking, to give a price signal for the different players in the fantasy competition, like how the other ones work.

I didn't have too much on today, so I used a system that just looked at routines at worlds for the past 10 years.

What's interesting is that Vasek and Honza were equal on points after 9 years, with Vasek on top with another win in 2005. An interesting factor is that while it seems like the sport has been dominated by a few in recent times, in these past years, there have been 51 different players making the finals (or very close to).

My points system was that if you made the finals you got 10 points. 1st place got a bonus of 50, 2nd 30 3rd 20. Each finalist also got the reverse of their place (eg, 1st 8, 2nd 7 down to 8th 1). There was a little adjustment in 2010, where there were 9 in the final. I also gave 5 points to players who came in 9th.

If you cut it off at players who have 50 points to their name, this is what it looks like.

1. Václav "Vasek" Klouda (Czech Republic)
2. Jan "Honza" Weber (Czech Republic)
3. Milan Benda (Czech Republic)
4. Damian Gielnicki (Poland)
5. Jindra Smola (Czech Republic)
6. Aleksi Airinen (Finland)
7. Gordon Bevier (USA)
8. David Clavens (USA)
9. Anssi Sundberg (Finland)
10. Jim Penske (USA)
11. Felix Zenger (Finland)
12. Evan Gatesman (USA)
13. Juho Marjo (Finland)

Sergey Kozlov and Phil Morrison are next on the list to round out a 15.

No surprise that Vasek and Honza are way out in front, then the rest of the top rankings are those who have been world champion within that period. Anyway, it came up with some interesting numbers. Think I might do some experimenting with the fantasy stuff over this coming competition period (USO, Euros, Worlds) and try and get something into action for next year. Maybe. Could be a lot of work for not much gain.

The basic idea would be to have levels of players (rather than a monetary value) and in the early rounds you select a limited amount of players per level, then they rise and fall according to their performance.

Also really like metzelrio and his challenge on Instagram with drifter. The one yesterday, spinning clipper>drifter was harder than I expected. Instagram is a really good platform for getting those short clips out and I like this idea of a daily challenge.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Jeremy » 15 Jun 2015 20:42

Add Block wrote:
This has been discussed before. That's a preference. You don't judge based on preference.
I don't agree. It's a form issue. Otherwise you have to have set differently if you're doing bedwetter vs flaming tard. People set across their bodies usually because it makes the trick easier or because they can't help it, but it reduces the fullness of dexes. It's like twisting on dlos and symp mirages - it's negating the dex. Doing it on bedwetter might make the last dex harder, but it also makes the middle dex easier.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 17 Jun 2015 19:39

Have been playing quite a lot lately. Considering I have a fair bit else on, and the weather has been terrible. Raining constantly for the past three days. Hopefully that's going to ease up soon. Fingers crossed.

Have been doing my routine quite a bit. Haven't been able to get it dropless in recent times, but just practicing it is helping. Going through the music, through the entrance, though everything.

I hit a little drill today, that many would say, hmm, that's pretty easy, but I was very pleased with myself. Fear>plo rpt. My fairy on flipside has been very bad for a very long time, and it's still not good, but if I can at least start some runs with it, then that's a beginning. Also did matador>pdx blender on one side (weak matador). Saw that on Kevin Hogan's blog and thought that sounded like a pretty cool combo.

Yesterday was the one month mark until we leave for our trip. Very much looking forward to that. Of course, the biggest part is simply not going to work, and still getting paid. Full time jobs are good sometimes. Been enjoying the Instagram challenge so far. Been trying to hit them all bsos, and even better, just get straight into and hit first go. I was able to do that on yesterday's combo.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 23 Jun 2015 19:51

Just had a good session on arrival in Sydney. I have come up to see Machine Head and I thought I would get a kick in. Wrestled with flip sumo. Had it on my foot. Did a fun little trick involving a bike rack, you can see that on my instagram. Drinking a beer now and about to meet a good friend for lunch. This is already a good day and I see it improving. Also, staying in the city, free of charge. Back to work tomorrow. ...

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 02 Jul 2015 17:37

Have found that video from the comp we had, I'll put something together another day. Glad to find it didn't just mysteriously vanish.

It's two weeks to go until we hit the road. That's a great feeling, though it must be nothing compared to the relief my Dad would be feeling today. He's retiring after 36 years in the same job. I imagine that would feel pretty great.

The last couple of sessions, I have been working on a planned shred 30. It's getting there. Actually yesterday I hit more than 20 contacts without a drop. For fear of giving away my secret formula (in reality I still don't think this would be particularly high scoring, but it would definitely reach a PB)

what I did yesterday was

dimwalk>blur>dimwalk>schmoe>parkwalk>sidewalk>ripwalk>sidewalk>ripwalk>ss butterfly>op butterfly>diving clipper>ducking clipper>diving clipper>ducking clipper>diving butterfly>ducking butterfly>ducking butterfly>ducking osis>gyro clipper>spinning clipper>spinning legover>magellan>plo>dlo (drop)

I would probably be best adding a couple of higher point tricks into my flow, but I think continuity is much more important in the shred 30, so if I could get that kind of level without a drop, that would get me a reasonable score. It's also good to go in with some idea of a plan, and I think that's exactly why Taishi won last year (good plan, no drops).

Have decided to have a little break from practice on my routine in the last couple of sessions. Next session I do I will get back to that, but something I've been thinking on is forming runs for the circle contest. I'm always pretty bereft of ideas when I appear there in the circle, but we'll see how that goes this year. Hopefully I can just get some long runs during my turns and give enough of a chance to show myself.

In less good news, I currently have three pairs of lavers. Two have a large crack in the right sole. It's too bad it's not one and the other. I have another pair, they are in slightly better condition, but not by much.

I just put in a bid for a pair of Lavers, size 12. There's another one, size 11 that someone posted on Facebook. Unfortunately the exchange rate sucks at the moment, so I think the shoes were say $60 (US), but then with postage, once exchanged it was about $140. Blergh.

I was going to put some money into a pair of the new lavers, mainly even just for walking around, but they seem a bit pricey too. So I might just hold off. It's only a month that these shoes have to last, so it should be fine up til then.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 03 Jul 2015 18:45

Well, if nothing changes from now, I should win worlds. The registration went up today and looks like, aside from Steve Goldberg in 2 square, nobody else is registered.

Maybe I should go out and do some practice just in case some other people get registered.

Did a tour at the AIS today, did a little footbag performance. No drops on that, which was pretty timely. Getting away on the trip cannot come soon enough. We're going on a short trip next week which should be a good little prelude.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 03 Jul 2015 20:39

Just to update that practice session.

Did my routine dropless, for the first time in a long while. The only real change I made was the final move was slightly easier, but it was pretty much as it should be right the way through.

13 reverse swirls. This is my PB. 17 ripwalks to finish off the session, just afterwards. I was aiming for 20, but that was close enough. Very happy with the dropless routine.

I got that pair of Lavers I mentioned in the earlier post. That cost $14 US, but with shipping it works out at about $75 (Australian). Thumbs down to the current exchange rate.

I had a couple of really good long runs, was feeling good day. Now I have to go to work, no better way to bring that feeling down.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by F[uns]tylin' Eclectic » 09 Jul 2015 17:14

Nice job on the Reverse Swirls, man. What's your flipside record?

I think you should combine your Reverse Swirls and Ripwalks and practice that drill. I think Reverse Swirl/Swirl is the hardest trick to step out of, and I realized once I could step out of Reverse Swirls, I was able to step out of Drifters and Whirls and Double Downs and whatnots.

Also: "dimwalk>blur>dimwalk>schmoe>parkwalk>sidewalk>ripwalk>sidewalk>ripwalk>ss butterfly>op butterfly>diving clipper>ducking clipper>diving clipper>ducking clipper>diving butterfly>ducking butterfly>ducking butterfly>ducking osis>gyro clipper>spinning clipper>spinning legover>magellan>plo>dlo (drop)"

^That's hella tight. Nice job on the density.
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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 10 Jul 2015 04:07

I think it's 5 or 6 on the flip rev swirl. I can step pretty well out of strong swirl tricks. Not so sure about the flip. Don't know if I will make many changes to that shred 30, that should go alright if I can hit most of it without dropping.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 12 Jul 2015 20:49

It's all getting pretty real. I stumbled over to the bathroom and Caroline was heading out. She said see you in Europe. We leave on Friday. Very exciting.

Had a good trip up to the central coast a few days back. Good to see some sun and get in the water. Then had my good friend Joe down for a visit. Had a good session today, did a dropless shred 30. A couple of repeat contacts - dimwalk, butterfly and spinning clipper. But good to get that for the confidence.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by Asmus » 12 Jul 2015 23:23

Woohoo! I am excited as well!

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 15 Jul 2015 20:24

Heading in to work for the last time before the trip. That is great news, I am ready for a break from going to work.

Had a kick today. Got in some good practice. I have a few little niggles but hopefully they will be all fine in the coming days. Arrive in Helsinki on Saturday morning. Yeeeeeaaaaaahhhh.

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Re: Canberra, Australia via SCL - Daniel Boyle

Post by boyle » 19 Jul 2015 20:24

Hey there footbag friends. We made it to Europe safely. It was a very long flight...around 24 hours of travel. We are in Helsinki now, haven't caught up with any footbag players. I think most Finns will be at worlds, so it's not a big deal.

We did have a great catch up yesterday with four of our Finnish friends, they lived in Canberra for a while. It was great to catch up with them, we had a really nice time together. Very easy going. Before meeting them we met a friend of a friend, Chilean guy who has been here a long time. He took us to an all you can eat place. I ate so much.

We are off to Norway today, going to stay with my cousin. They live on a farm, so that should be a change of pace.

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