1st Quarter Online Competition Official Release! All Video's

[B_Man]

Real good videos, I enjoyed them a lot. I enjoyed Jeremy's entries the most I think, very well done and well executed.

Thank you for taking the time to run this .

[zeroman13]

Byrin for President!

[Jazzkid]

My rankings just for fun...

Open Sick 1

1 Ken pixe flurry was so damn clean. Hard And perfect execution.
2 Byrin Stepping mofly- I blurted out "holy shi!" when I saw your sick trick. I am inspired now to go after that move. Your trick had the biggest awe factor for me , but I feel that the very last dex is questionably "the", your stepping leg touches the ground before the mofly, and falling back after the catch makes this particular hit not as clean as Ken's trick.

3 Jeremy Awesome trick. I can hit sailing tricks and I know how hard this is. I feel that even though you hit it, your set was no where near straight up , which force you to compensate by finishing the trick in a sloppy manner.

4. Me- Nice trick selection , not as difficuly as the first three for me, and the first dex could have been done more under me , and sooner. The last dex was not in good crank position and it looks weird.

5 Camilo- Zulu mind bender- nice , but not as hard as the other tricks

6. Alexandre- Nice , but not caught in good balance.

And The rest were THE
Artem - HOly Sh!# that was awesome. Your clip was hilarious. If that
whirl wasn't "the" then you would have won for sick 1 and coolest clip

Josh- SICK SICK SICK SICK SICK but THE, once again, might have won

Vitality- Ducking scorpions tail was completely THE , but awesome trick choice.

Dimitry- Awesome trick , but caught before the last dex. THE


Sick 2- Sick 3

1 BYRIN- DAMN YOU 1 Byrin- Damn
2 Jeremy- SICK 2 Kim - sick executed dexes
3 Me 3 Me should have hit mobius>locomotion>marius
4 Victor 4 Sergey- not as hard as others but sick
5 John 5 Vitality- might have won if the first duck wasnt
THE THE .

IT was alot of fun to compete and everybodies entries were inspiring to me so thanks ....

[Jeremy]

Good rankings - I pretty much agree, although it's difficult to judge yourself, and in sick 1 I thought Byrin's was also 'the' and would have put it first of the group of people who hit unclean stuff.

[Zac Miley]

Good rankings - I pretty much agree, although it's difficult to judge yourself, and in sick 1 I thought Byrin's was also 'the' and would have put it first of the group of people who hit unclean stuff.

I don't think you can argue that 'the' is the worst thing a trick can be. Not all tricks have the capability to be the (and some are actually harder the). It should be in degrees. Slur, thinness of a dex, etc. should all be equally valued, but the severeness of the execution mistake should be taken into account moreso than anything else.

Not saying this directly applies here...

[Jeremy]

I'm not aware that I've argued that. Hypothetically you may well be correct, however in the context of this competition, the 'the' tricks were the worst executed. Failing to meet the requirements of what the trick actually is would have to be considered worse than meeting those requirements badly.

edit; Did you edit your post, or did I just not read the last sentence? Sorry

edit2; I just wanted to add that if a trick is harder to hit 'the' than clean and you hit it 'the,' that's terrible, not impressive. Although that said, I think with most tricks the easiest way to hit them is cleanly - when you're hitting them 'the' it tends to mean you're starting the dexes too late and probably off balance or out of control to finish with. Of course it depends on the trick entirely. I usually find with tricks that I often 'the,' they feel easy and relaxed when I do hit them cleanly but rushed and sloppy when I don't.

[Zac Miley]

Nah I didn't edit my post.

It seems like you're arguing that the is the worst thing that can happen in a trick (not just here), which is probably true - but I think it's unfair to rank a the trick below a very slurry/pulled/whatever trick of similar difficulty.

Sorry for the mini-hijack, but I think it's an important note when judging.

Yeah, the "the can maker a trick harder" argument was kind of a failed one, I was referring to something like theberman or whatever. It doesn't really apply here. The argument of severity is my main point. Only point, now.

[Jeremy]

If a trick is slurry enough, I'd call it 'the' too. I don't think there are any rules though - judge on the specifics of what actually gets hit.

On a semi related note - I'm not sure that the whirlygig swirl was 'the' although I didn't review it very carefully. What I do think is that it's hard to judge because of the spin out, where I think (I was sick and on anti-flu drugs at the time) you step away from the bag and then dive forward to catch it. If that's the case then you would have been much better off just letting it hit the ground. Footbag events aren't judged on your ability to catch with your hands - if the set is a nice height and straight up and your body is balanced and in a good position, it doesn't matter what happens to the bag. If I were to write out my own rankings I'd need to review this trick fairly carefully to rank it - it could potentially finish very close to the top but I can't really remember. In any event the diving hand catch gives an impression of poor execution, that is perhaps unfair.

[Jazzkid]

Whirlygig swirl had a the whirl.

[Zac Miley]

If a trick is slurry enough, I'd call it 'the' too. I don't think there are any rules though - judge on the specifics of what actually gets hit.

This is basically what I'm saying. We need to find out what degree of a slur is similar to 'the' and rank them (quantify them?)

Like:

1 (least important) slightly thin, toey or slightly pulled - not enough turn on an osis or something.
5 (most important) the, no dex or no turn on an osis.

Just examples, but I think you get what I mean...

We should make rules instead of every judge deciding what is most important. Even if they're not quantified. I know these competitions aren't sanctioned by the IFPA, but they are still some of the more prominent events in footbag and should have judging guidelines just as Shred:30, Circle, and Routines do.

[C-Fan]

In terms of judging, I mostly agree with Jeremy. If a trick isn't hit cleanly, is it really hit? It's almost like having a dunk contest where somebody does something fancy but misses a dunk. I'd value a normal dunk with no frills over a 720 where the dunk is missed.

Speaking purely as a spectator/footbagger, I would have much preferred to have seen all of the "the" tricks minus one or two add components, and hit cleanly.

Feedback:
I encourage everybody to post in this thread with your predictions on how the ranking will go, and feedback on everybody's entrys. The players enter these competitons so they can find out what you think!

Heres my Sick 1 feedback.

Vitaliy- Spinning Spanishfly: spinning ducking was very clean and good. I thought the down double was thin.

Alexandr G- mind bender- duck looked good, but the dex could have been tighter and more controlled.

Jeremy O'Wheel-sailing gyro mirage- clean, and a trick I hadn't seen before. I'd put this in the top two tricks in this comp.

Byrin- stepping mofly- Very cool trick, and a very good shot at it. The last dex is thin, but in my experience it almost always has to be whenever you put a component in front of mofly. You hit the trick about as good as it can be hit, but I'd still hesitate to put this ahead of tricks that are hit more cleanly.

Ken (me)-pixie flurry- I apologize we didn't shoot this one closer. It also doesn't help that I was using a small bag to help with the dexes. That said, I've watched this frame by frame on a big computer screen, and the barrage dexes are around my ankle. At the risk of sounding cocky, this is the cleanest pixie flurry I've ever seen, in shoes or otherwise.

Mark- moby dick- Cool trick. The dyno could have been more pronounced, but it was there. Top four entry.

Artem- gig swirl- whirl dex was the, and the seal was very wild (albeit entertaining). I would have rather seen BWS or just gig, and hit cleanly, than gig swirl done like this.

Camilo- zulu pdx blender- Excellent execution, and very cool trick. I really loved how tightly executed this was. I'd probably put this in 4th or 5th place, just behind Mark, and depending how I'd score Byrin's trick.

Josh- symp bubba motion- That trick is insane. Too bad it was the. I'd also hesitate to give it full credit even if it was clean, due to the diving seal.

Dmitry- fairy ducking paradon- I thought the down double was kind of low, but the rest of the trick was very well done. Fairy was deep and controlled, the duck was the right height, and the timing of the down double was just a second off. I'm gonna keep an eye out for you in the future.

So yeah, I thought that 60% of the entries were either thin or "the," which isn't a very good percentage. That said, I saw a lot of talent here, so hopefully people can make minor adjustments and submit cleaner entries in the future.

Thank you again to Paulo, Zac, and Matt for organizing and running this.

[Zac Miley]

In terms of judging, I mostly agree with Jeremy. If a trick isn't hit cleanly, is it really hit? It's almost like having a dunk contest where somebody does something fancy but misses a dunk. I'd value a normal dunk with no frills over a 720 where the dunk is missed.

Right, but is a missed dex the absolute worst thing that can happen in a trick?

[Jeremy]

I don't like the term "absolutely worst" - it immediately makes me construct hypotheticals involving crushed testicals or some kind of destruction of the universe.

Missing a dex means that you didn't hit the trick you were trying to hit. That means that you didn't hit the trick. In my mind this basically counts about the same as a drop.

[Zac Miley]

Missing a dex means that you didn't hit the trick you were trying to hit. That means that you didn't hit the trick. In my mind this basically counts about the same as a drop.

But there is still movement that would make the trick harder than the one step down version, right?

[Jeremy]

Are you asking if a 'the' barfly is more difficult than a clean butterfly?

[Zac Miley]

Yeah. If the only thing wrong with the barfly is a the dex, is it less difficult (enough to be ranked below) a clean butterfly?

Or nemesis to blurriest even?

Saying "you didn't hit the trick" can't be correct, because you did the motions for the trick, just in the wrong place or at the wrong time or with bad form.

Obviously the trick should be docked, and it is possible for it to be ranked below a butterfly with other execution problems, but simply a the dex should not place a trick at the bottom of rankings.

[C-Fan]

Yeah. If the only thing wrong with the barfly is a the dex, is it less difficult (enough to be ranked below) a clean butterfly

As both a spectator and a judge I would rank a "the" barfly lower than a clean butterfly. Doing a "the" barfly doesn't show me you have mastered anything, while a clean butterfly at least shows me you have mastered butterfly.

Saying "you didn't hit the trick" can't be correct, because you did the motions for the trick, just in the wrong place or at the wrong time or with bad form.

Let's use your nemesis example. By definition, a nemesis is a 4 dex trick. If you miss dexes and only get 3 dexes, then you didn't hit nemesis.

If I hit a trick and it's "the," I don't claim I've hit the trick, because I haven't. I've come close to hitting the trick. By the same logic, if I run 20 miles, I don't claim to have run a marathon, because a marathon is a clearly defined event. You can't claim 20 miles is a marathon, in the same way you can't claim a barraging "the" barfly is a nemesis.

[zeroman13]

Byrin for President!

[Zac Miley]

Footbag in my opinion is completely different from marathons or basketball, so I don't think your analogies apply.

I guess I should have said something more along the lines of "Sure, you may have missed this trick, but this trick is still worth more than a trick of lesser difficulty, even though you missed part of this trick."

So a barfly already has a butterfly in it. If the only thing wrong with it is a 'the' dex, it makes no sense to rank a butterfly over it, right?

Same with nemesis - barraging is a harder stepping set. If you the a dex on a barraging, you still did some extra motion plus the step. This, in my opinion, makes the trick harder than the 'stepped down' version. Pun intended.

I agree, the tricks should not be counted as hitting a particular trick, but it should still be worth more than the previous trick.

Totally sorry for the hijack... still...

[JoshC.]

Any feedback for the novice of the competition?