Symposium Frantic Set

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 28 Mar 2007 14:13

This began as a discussion in the "New Moves" thread, but I thought it was off-topic, so I'm starting a new thread here.

habitat wrote:Yeah, I like that set. It always "the" IMO, I dare someone to hit it clean on camera (Kenneth )

The coolest most "the" move is pixie symp quantum muted legover. It drops drawers yo!

What part of the set do you think is always "the," the pixie dex, or the wonton dex? I think its easy to "the" the pixie if you rush to hit it all at once (same as normal frantic), but if you break it up mentally, you should be able to get two distinct, clean dexes. Unfortunately, there aren't many videos of people hitting this set.

I hit it at the 7:30 mark of this video, but its horrid video quality:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... +nyc&hl=en

I also hit symp frantic eclipse at the Cornell Footbag Jam during the Sick1 contest. I believe it came out on day 24 of the xmas calendar if anybody wants to dig up the link. I'm pretty sure my set there is clean, but I'm willing to hear other people's opinion on it.

Now that I think about it, I think there may be footage of me hitting beta frenzy on Marc Giard Lariviere's video of CFJ, but I don't have time to check.

I think it would also be interesting to post all the tricks that have been hit so far using this set. Off the top of my head:

*beta frenzy
*beta ewalk
*symp frantic eclipse
*symp frantic LO (Like beta smog)

Any others? I may have hit osis as well, but can't recall. May be in my blog somewhere.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 28 Mar 2007 14:22

Most of the time the dexes are smooshed together in a "frantic" mess. Usually I "the" the wonton part a lot more than the pixie, because I get my knee pointed outside my body and the dex gets really flat-leggy.

Also Reggie hits beta frenzy on the hackrifice2005 video he made.

Oh and I couldn't tell on that video of you Ken, it was dark and somewhat out of frame. Plus you probably didn't need to start a new thread, it's just the new moves thread.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 28 Mar 2007 20:10

Yeah, I hit Beta Frenzy once and never again.

Total fluke of a move.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Mar 2007 15:15

I have to disagree with the "the" comment. I think if you look at the set physically, you can clearly start the second dex earlier than the second dex on a normal frantic set, and provided you have the leg strength, if you can hit a clean frantic set, you can hit a clean symp frantic set. I would be happy to get one on video, but my camera is away with hippies at the moment.

To add to the moves mentioned, I've hit osis, pickup and clipper out of the set. Beta frantic clipper (same leg as the second dex) is probably my favourite beta frantic move.

Also beta e-walk is called "wookie." Seb D invented it, but I hit the same move around the same time (pre worlds 2004 I think) and he was happy with my name.

cammel · Post by **cammel** » 30 Mar 2007 20:39

i just watched that sick 1 video again and that definitely looks clean to me... the pixie was a bit toey but still there and the quantum was deep.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Mar 2007 02:20

Have to say, just watched the sick 1 vid then and both the pixie set and the quantum set looked dodgy to me. Don't know if they were "the," it obviously depends on your definition, but if it were a video of me, I would call both dexes. In my opinion a pixie set is not clean if the the majority of the dex movement occurs with the bag below the pixie foot, and this is what happens. While the foot does pass across the bag (or at least the toe), it's only after most of the dex motion has occurred. Likewise, I don't think a quantum set (or symp quantum set) is clean if the bag is below the foot. The hard part of a quantum set is the bit where your bring your foot around the front of the bag, the bit where it comes up at the end is the easy part. In Ken's move, is foot is clearly above the bag to begin with with that dex as well. I can post the screens if you like.

HG · Post by HG » 31 Mar 2007 09:09

LOL how did Ken's comment get deleted so fast?

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 31 Mar 2007 10:32

I figured that my best rejoinder would be to let people decide on their own about the cleanliness of my set, as well as about Jeremy's own personal motives to hate on me.

On topic: now that the weather is getting nicer and my friend Pascal has more free time, I am hoping to make another video soon. I'll try to put on some symp. frantic stuff on there.

If anybody thinks they can do cleaner symp frantic than me, by all means post video.

mc · Post by mc » 31 Mar 2007 11:37

i like your symp frantic, ken.

Max Power · Post by **Max Power** » 31 Mar 2007 15:09

I just looked at the vid i made in higher quality and in slow mo i would say that the set was clean, not deep not even close to deep, but clean.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Mar 2007 18:09

Not everybody is as childish and vindictive as you are Ken. I will post the screen shots and people can judge for themselves.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 01 Apr 2007 11:32

Save the personal insults Jeremy. Post vid of yourself, post screens, whatever. For all your talk, you haven't posted anything. Post on topic, or shut the fuck up.

acxel22 · Post by **acxel22** » 01 Apr 2007 17:28

oohh oooh
admin war!!!

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 01 Apr 2007 19:51

qphox wrote:Yeah, I hit Beta Frenzy once and never again. Total fluke of a move.

Awesome video!

3:38

Look pretty clean to me......

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Apr 2007 04:33

C-Fan wrote:Save the personal insults Jeremy. Post vid of yourself, post screens, whatever. For all your talk, you haven't posted anything. Post on topic, or shut the fuck up.

Lol, you're hilarious. Hypocritical? Of course not.

The other funny thing is that Ken can find no evidence that I "hate him" because every time we've come into conflict, it's been him attacking me, rather than the other way around. This topic is a great example. He posts. I post agreeing with him. Somebody else posts, calling a video he posted into question, I check it out and post an honest opinion. I'm sure everybody knows that I call things that are "the" fairly often, and that me calling him on that move was something I would have done to anybody. I've also never gone out of my way to attack Ken by contacting somebody I've never met to slander him, as Ken did at the end of last year. Funnily enough, the person in question was a little shocked to get a message from somebody he'd never met attacking somebody who had just offered him free accommodation, and made his own judgement of the issue.

Anyway here are the screenshots as promised. I've been a little caught up in a personal issue so have taken a little longer than I would have otherwise been. As you can see, everything I said was correct. You can verify these pictures by watching the video yourself of course.

HG · Post by HG » 03 Apr 2007 05:34

those just show that both dexes are shoe-y, but there

Uranos · Post by **Uranos** » 03 Apr 2007 06:46

i read your post, but how are you agreeing with ken? the one that says "i have to disagree with....."

anyway those pictures to me seem like the 2nd one (quantum) is more skeptical but which one is the bag?

mc · Post by mc » 03 Apr 2007 07:06

regarding the second picture the thing on the left is the bag, not the larger thing on the right. Those both look like they're at the ankle to me. I think Jeremy and I have different standards regarding symp frantic. Jeremy, you'd prefer the leg was more diagonal / going "around" the bag than over it horizontally?

Ken, I like seeing you hit those big moves out of symp frantic, and I think it would be a shame if you stopped doing the set because the dex legs get horizontal instead of diagonal... not that you'd ever do that. Just wanted to cast my vote.

Jeremy, props for having such high standards. It has always shown in your videos. I even thought SSBS looked pretty good. How about giving that some more tries?

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 03 Apr 2007 09:40

Jeremy: thank you for posting screens. I want this thread to stay on topic. So yeah, your post where you describe your criteria for "the," the screenshots, and any video of yourself you'd like to post are great. As for your cryptic, passive-aggressive comments, I will ask you again: stop. Nobody gives a shit about our beef. Keep your posts to footbag.

As for the screenshots themselves, I actually am pretty happy with them. My wonton is definitely a horizontal dex, not a vertical one. In my personal opinion, I don't think that is "the." If that kind of dex is considered "the," then isn't every single Merlin ever hit also unclean? What about the second dex of blizzard? Isn't that usually a horizontal dex too?

To date, the only video I've seen of beta frantic have been videos of me. I'd love to see video of how other people do it, because it might give me a better understanding of the set. From Jeremy's post I'm given the impression that his beta frantics have a deeper pixie and a vertical wonton. But yeah, seeing is believing.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 03 Apr 2007 11:15

I never felt good about any horizontal dexes aside from swirls. There are some other exceptions, like certain aerial dexes. I'm largely ignorant about Merlin and if it fits this aerial dex category. What is it? Like a toe-set Voodoo (Voodoo? Vu-Do? Whatever).

C-Fan wrote:What about the second dex of blizzard?

I believe the second dex of blizzard SHOULD be vert. I can say with very high confidence that mine are. You can easily do a verticle dex for that part of Blizzard if you just concentrate on keeping your foot below the height of the bag as your thigh rises above it and your calf circles it.

I think high standards of dexing are the only standards worth having, especially for top shredders. Newbies could get away with tip-of-the-toe dexes if they don't know better, or if they're still trying to get better, but its up to the pro players to set a better example of clean. If you'd contend that certain tricks are so hard/quick/whatever that they need alot of extra fudge-factor, if they're just so difficult that they couldn't realistically be done with very clean dexes, then I'd say we're probably better off without such tricks and we'd be better off trying to invent stuff that isn't so questionable. There's still plenty more stuff to do in the game.