the ones with kicks are harder
It's these links that are completely unrewarded by the add system.
dyalander wrote:I don't think the add system can be changed to reflect difficulty. Its only a means of scoring shred 30, and one way of many, of understanding whats going on in moves regaring their components. I agree that a kick is a defineable component, but turning it into an add would not be feasible for shred 30.
I answered this before. Basically what it comes down to is that you guys want to be able to do flyers and link you're shred with kicks in shred 30, and I don't think that its a good direction for shred 30 to take. If you don't think it has anything to do with shred 30 then i don't understand why you want to change the add system. If its just about getting stylers to diversify then theres another thread with suggestions for that, and i don't think changing the add system is the best of those suggestions.Why wouldn't it be feasible?
- no its not, the clipper set equvalent of mirage is cliper set mirage. Drifter is the clpper set equivalent of toe drifter. In both cases I feel that the clipper set equivalent of these moves is easier as do many people. However I don't feel that is necessary to change the add system to reflect this because i don't think that its such a big deal if shred 30 is clipper dominated.Like the clipper equivalent of a mirage is... drifter
I think i understand what you're trying to say but these two moves don't use the same components. I think you mean to say that there are a number of moves which have the same jobs notation, but that are substantially different in the real world. We all get this, but I don't get why its so important for the add system to get it - the only thing it will change is shred 30.Like blurry whirl is easier than blurry whirl rake since the adds are used in the same way, but blurry whirl is much easier than pdx high plains drifter even though they use the same components
Jeremy wrote:My goal as a member of the IFC is to push freestyle footbag as a serious sport rather than a past time or hobby and I want to see rules that reflect that.
Jeremy wrote: In particular a possibility is following other "freestyle expression" style sports - which is something I'd really like to see - and having a list of moves that are allowed to be hit in competition with specific scores for each of these moves. An active panel - presumably the IFC Freestyle committee would keep the list up to date and players could submit any new moves they wish to use in a shred 30 to that committee. I could see a great deal of opposition to this but I'd like to point out it's the way pretty much every single freestyle sport is judged - especially sports like diving, figure skating, airial skiing gymastics etc. (I've been watching the winter olympics and the commonwealth games trials a lot recently ).
Jeremy wrote:I think it's a very good point that the only thing that adds effect is shred 30. Apart from that I think it's much easier to change attitudes than to change the add system. The add system is meant to reflect difficulty and it does that with the theory that the more components to a move the harder it is - this is why there is a pdx add and also why there is a proposed x-dex add which will no doubt become part of the official rules within the next year or two and is already accepted by many people including the Australian Footbag National Council. It is, of course, clear that while the add system works as a judgement of difficulty in many cases and is generally correct - there are lots of exceptions.
dyalander wrote:I understand that linking tricks with kicks is substantially harder that linking shred with stalls and that its not just about flyers. But like I said, I am happy with shred 30 being shred with stalls. So with that in mind I don't think the stall add should be removed - furthermore, removing the stall add would mean sketched out kicks at the end of moves would not be punished in shred 30, so not only would intended kicks and stalls be of the same value, but so would mistakes that don't end up in a drop ie, slops.
Of course no one wants to give slops an add, but you can't just have a definition for a kick add and tack on "oh and it doesn't count slops". Until I see a reasonable definition that isn't problematic, i won't think a kick add is a good idea, and even if i do see such a definition as i said, i'm happy for shred 30 to be kickless so i still won't think its a good idea.With x-kick there would be no extra add for a slop, and besides I don't think anyone was suggesting slops be given an add.
I think what jeremy meant is that he wanted difficulty treated the same way that it is in other sports. He is happy for routines to be judged for artistic, and for shred 30 to be something different, judged on an accumulation of points, but such that the points reflected difficulty in the manner that it is reflected in other sports.Also if you wanted shred 30 to be judged like other sports that would involve creating artistic merit judging. Anyway what I'm getting at is that shred 30 is what it is because it is not judged like other sports.
Either its easier to change attitudes or its easier to change the add system. Clearly you believe the latter, otherwise you wouldnt suggest we do something more difficult while we wait fot the easier thing to be done - that would make no sense whatsoever.Perhaps it is easier to change attutidues, but in the interim if people wanted more variety in the game it would be better to change the add system a bit
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