Evolution

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 29 Jun 2007 20:34

sanuke okumatzu wrote: I couldn't agree more. Humans are a pathetic race, you don't see other species squabbling and fighting. Killing each other off. We would be so much better if we just opened our eyes and saw what we were doing to each other and our planet. It really makes me consider not having kids just thinking about the hell that they and their children will live thru because of our actions right now. I'm seriously afraid of what will happen to humanity in the future. We think that all will be well, global warming isn't real; god will save us from our own stupidity. Within the last 100 years we've caused so much damage to the world and it's other inhabitants that if you were to travel back in time a few hundred years you wouldn't be able to comprehend the damage we've done. Speaking of evolution, just take a minute and think of the natural 'flow' of things. Climate changes happen over rather long spaces in time. Thus allowing species to slowly accumulate traits and mutations that allow them to better survive in said new environment: there's evolution for you. Now I ask...what is humanity doing to the environment?
Yep.....

Don't preying mantis critters kill each other

?

Yeah I have most certainly considered not having kids, and I still am. I might just adopt. I mean what is the point in bringing someone into the world?

The best way I've found to argue against people who don't believe in evolution is to state a couple basic facts by asking a question or two:

Who is better able to get fruit up a tree? An athletic dude, or a quadraplegic? Obviously the athletic dude. He is more likely to survive and get laid as a result.

Then point out that Chinese families give birth to Chinese children and English families, English children. You do get stuff from your parents, you're not just a 'random' being.

Then point out your or their differences to their parents. While I'm quite similar to my parents, i'm taller than both they are now and ever were. What gives?

Its pretty hard for someone to disagree with these points. Yet if they agree, they've essentially supported evolution.

People are different to their parents, the ones that are different in good ways live on, and pass those traits on. I don't understand how anyone can disagree with this. They bring up the whole 'lack of transitional fossils' argument. Well fuck that. You don't need 200,000 yearold fossils to understand this simple concept.

Gotta stop writing before I get angry, lol.

PegLegHolly · Post by **PegLegHolly** » 29 Jun 2007 21:26

Blue_turnip wrote:Then point out that Chinese families give birth to Chinese children and English families, English children. You do get stuff from your parents, you're not just a 'random' being.

english is a language... not something hereditary. ive seen plenty of people who speak spanish have kids that speak both spanish and english. thats not evolution... thats location.

i do believe in evolution though.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 30 Jun 2007 00:47

PegLegHolly wrote:
Blue_turnip wrote:Then point out that Chinese families give birth to Chinese children and English families, English children. You do get stuff from your parents, you're not just a 'random' being.
english is a language... not something hereditary. ive seen plenty of people who speak spanish have kids that speak both spanish and english. thats not evolution... thats location.

i do believe in evolution though.

I am praying for your sake that this post was a joke.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 30 Jun 2007 00:49

Not literally praying though, because it wouldn't do anything.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Jun 2007 05:39

Yeah well made point Ollie, even if Holly completely misunderstood it.

We can see the evidence of evolution in everything around us, from genetics, to fossils to psychology. The world really just doesn't make sense unless evolution exists.

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 30 Jun 2007 07:04

yeah, its pretty obvious you both mean different things by "english".

this is an awesome thread. everyone is ranting but no one disagrees with the ranters.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 30 Jun 2007 10:37

Jeremy or other person who believes in evolution wrote:The world really just doesn't make sense unless evolution exists.

It's funny the way this belief (though it's one I agree with) won't win any argument with someone who doesn't believe in evolution.

Every Religious Person wrote:The world really just doesn't make sense unless God exists.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 30 Jun 2007 17:53

Jeremyin the religion thread wrote:Examples of evolution occurring before our eyes. Not records of evolution that has occurred. Us actually seeing the changes occur.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/lif ... -bold.html
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/lif ... ction.html
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/lif ... rward.html
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/lif ... -heat.html
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/lif ... n-lab.html

first article "The snakes can't make their own toxins, so must have got them from their diet."

thats not evolution its addaptaion. thad be like calling a measeles shot evolution.

the other articles are fairly sketchy as well. not that I'm completely against evolution, but this thread certainly is giving me my doubts. there is nothing that makes me more skeptical than people being 100% certain in a theory. Just like atheism, I mean, be anti-religion all you want, but to be 100% sure there is no higher power is just as arrogant and silly as all the conservitive christians out there.

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 30 Jun 2007 19:34

It's good to be skeptical. The argument for evolution is incredibly strong though. Even Darwin's original argument from the Origin of Species still mostly holds up today. It has been modified from 150 years of scientific research and deduction, but it has not been close disconfirmed. Propaganda will tell you it has, but these attempts are jokes.

Atheism isn't exactly 100% against god. It's more 99% probability which is close enough to 100% for all practical purposes. Of course you can't know. It's more like noticing god is just as improbable as any of the other dead gods of mythology who were at a time as relevant as modern monotheisms. It's not up to atheists to make the case anyways. It's the religious faction that has to bring evidence to the table. If you come up with an idea, you have to present evidence for that idea if it is to have any respect. Evolution has a ton of evidence. No religion has ever had any. All a religious person can really throw are mind fucks like Pascal's Wager or arguments from design. And these don't really present much of anything. And the last resort, "You can't prove or disprove God." The religious somehow think that's an argument in their favor. It's actually fallacious.

I'm sold on evolution...unless we find something that works better.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Jun 2007 19:57

shreddaily wrote:
Jeremyin the religion thread wrote: thats not evolution its addaptaion. thad be like calling a measeles shot evolution.
EVOLUTION IS ADAPTATION!!

the other articles are fairly sketchy as well. not that I'm completely against evolution, but this thread certainly is giving me my doubts. there is nothing that makes me more skeptical than people being 100% certain in a theory. Just like atheism, I mean, be anti-religion all you want, but to be 100% sure there is no higher power is just as arrogant and silly as all the conservitive christians out there.[/quote]

Evolution predicted that the world was older than 10,000 years (as was believed before Darwin) and that the Sun must be powered by some source people didn't know about. Now we know about nuclear power.

Evolution predicted a number of species between fish and amphibians. In the last 15 years we've found at least 18 of these "transitional fossils).

DNA corresponds perfectly with the fossil record.

There is absolutely no legitimate evidence that supports an alternative theory to evolution.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 30 Jun 2007 19:58

shreddaily wrote: thats not evolution its addaptaion. thad be like calling a measeles shot evolution.

EVOLUTION IS ADAPTATION!!

the other articles are fairly sketchy as well. not that I'm completely against evolution, but this thread certainly is giving me my doubts. there is nothing that makes me more skeptical than people being 100% certain in a theory. Just like atheism, I mean, be anti-religion all you want, but to be 100% sure there is no higher power is just as arrogant and silly as all the conservitive christians out there.

Evolution predicted that the world was older than 10,000 years (as was believed before Darwin) and that the Sun must be powered by some source people didn't know about. Now we know about nuclear power.

Evolution predicted a number of species between fish and amphibians. In the last 15 years we've found at least 18 of these "transitional fossils).

DNA corresponds perfectly with the fossil record.

There is absolutely no legitimate evidence that supports an alternative theory to evolution.[/quote]

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 30 Jun 2007 21:46

Good topic.

The way I see it... Is we've either always been here, (I mean the universe) or a creator who's always been here, created us. Or there's also the idea that the only reason we are, is because there simply can't be nothing.

We've either been here forever, because if the universe expands contracts expands contracts expands contracts forever... well, it never ends, which means it never began, which means we've always been here, or we don't really exist, but I know we exist, because, "I think, therefore I am."

A creator that's always been here created, not "God", because none of that shit in the bible fits the bill. We didn't get created by the big bang. If anything created us, it was a creator of some sort, creating the big bang, which started out the universe. And everything that has a beginning has an end, so the universe will either... end by it's own destruction, somehow, or the creator will end the universe.

Or we're simply here because it's not possible for us to not be here. When I think of this, I think, "Well, let's imagine there being, nothing." But then, when I try to think about it, I see, black. Black, is something. There wouldn't even be black, so what the hell do I imagine? Well, my philosophy is, "If I can't imagine it, it's not possible." I don't mean that ignorantly. If you present something to me, then I can imagine it, because I can imagine anything you may tell me. I really hate it when people say that something's beyond your imagination, because the only thing beyond my imagination is there not being a universe... So the only thing that fits with that whole idea, is that there simply can't be nothing because I can't imagine it... that somehow sounds ignorant.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 01 Jul 2007 00:04

Switch Kicker wrote:Good topic.

The way I see it... Is we've either always been here, (I mean the universe) or a creator who's always been here, created us. Or there's also the idea that the only reason we are, is because there simply can't be nothing.

We've either been here forever, because if the universe expands contracts expands contracts expands contracts forever... well, it never ends, which means it never began, which means we've always been here, or we don't really exist, but I know we exist, because, "I think, therefore I am."

A creator that's always been here created, not "God", because none of that shit in the bible fits the bill. We didn't get created by the big bang. If anything created us, it was a creator of some sort, creating the big bang, which started out the universe. And everything that has a beginning has an end, so the universe will either... end by it's own destruction, somehow, or the creator will end the universe.

Or we're simply here because it's not possible for us to not be here. When I think of this, I think, "Well, let's imagine there being, nothing." But then, when I try to think about it, I see, black. Black, is something. There wouldn't even be black, so what the hell do I imagine? Well, my philosophy is, "If I can't imagine it, it's not possible." I don't mean that ignorantly. If you present something to me, then I can imagine it, because I can imagine anything you may tell me. I really hate it when people say that something's beyond your imagination, because the only thing beyond my imagination is there not being a universe... So the only thing that fits with that whole idea, is that there simply can't be nothing because I can't imagine it... that somehow sounds ignorant.

We don't know for sure that the universe expands and contracts in cycles.

While you explained most of your thoughts I don't understand why you refuse the idea that we were created bythe big bang. Why not?

black isn't something, its what your mind does to allow you to visualise the abscence of something. when you see a black object you're simply not having light reflected into your eyes.

thats where terms like blackbodies and black holes come from. black bodies absorb all electromagnetic radiation. black holes just suck shitloads of stuff in so that they're invisible.

i think it is rather ignorant for you to say that if something is beyond your imagination it is impossible. can you imagine a place where space and time doesn't exist yet other dimensions do exist that would allow for the big bang to occur? neither can I. but it's a generally well regarded hypothesis to explain the universes creation

dp · Post by dp » 01 Jul 2007 07:56

Switch Kicker wrote:If I can't imagine it, it's not possible.

SwitchKicker wrote:I can't imagine herpies period.

I hate being the person who looks back in your records but I thought this, even though pretty out of context showed how ignorant I believe you are.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 01 Jul 2007 12:04

Switch Kicker wrote:well, it never ends, which means it never began

Poor logic.

sanuke okumatzu · Post by **sanuke okumatzu** » 01 Jul 2007 12:39

Blue_turnip wrote:Not literally praying though, because it wouldn't do anything.

because there's no god..hahah..it's a joke.. get it?

Anywhom....I have the end all post to this thread. If you don't believe in evolution, explain the Galapagos Islands.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 01 Jul 2007 18:50

sanuke okumatzu wrote:
Blue_turnip wrote:Not literally praying though, because it wouldn't do anything.
because there's no god..hahah..it's a joke.. get it?

Anywhom....I have the end all post to this thread. If you don't believe in evolution, explain the Galapagos Islands.

I meant it on two levels. What you said and the fact that nothing could possibly save such a losty. But in that sense I was joking.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 01 Jul 2007 20:28

Moxie wrote:
Switch Kicker wrote:well, it never ends, which means it never began
Poor logic.

Lol... did I say that?

Wow.. I must've been really out of it, because when I reread my post... yeah. A lot of it didn't make sense. Ha ha.

Like I said, I was rambling... Just... ignore that post, ha ha.

And to Blue Turnip. If there is nothing, then there is no black, because there's no human mind to create it... Silly.

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 02 Jul 2007 22:46

Im a huge skeptic based on the fact that throughout history all the smartest people "knew" what was going on and yet "truth" always changes with the times.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 02 Jul 2007 23:14

Switch Kicker wrote: And to Blue Turnip. If there is nothing, then there is no black, because there's no human mind to create it... Silly.

what the? that has nothing to do with what i said.