How many moves in a shred 30?

[sidekick]

I was just wondering what the median is for people who can do a good shred 30 routine. This is asking not your average, but how many unique moves you have put in your shred 30, or however many you think you could hit if you cared about hitting lots of quick moves.

Also, if you have any abnormal moves you put into your shred 30 (like rev. swirling pickup or triage or something that isn't usually hit in a shred 30) please include that in your post. I just want to get a general idea of what kind of moves people throw down in a shred 30, and any tricks that aren't shuffle or mainstream that are used.

[sampotter]

I have a pretty run of the mill shred 30. I voted 29-30 contacts/uniques/whatever.

[Caleb]

My shred 30 I'm working on is 30 tricks. But I'm sure if I wasn't concerned with score and only wanted to shuffle, I could do 35. Well, it'd take me more than a few tries to go that fast and not drop.

[setman]

less than 29

[BalinorNZ]

Shred30 for me would be as many sets into buttefly or pdx mirage that I can do with a few 5's thrown in.

A typical shred30 would be something like:
Ripwalk > sidewalk > ripwalk > sidewalk > blur > atomsmasher > atomsmasher > fairy butterfly > blur > fairy butterfly > blizzard > dimwalk > blizzard > dimwalk > infinity > pdx drifter > pdx mirage > parkwalk > blender > pdx whirl > pdx whirl > pdx mirage > fairy ducking butterfly > infinity > blurry whirl > osis > barfly > whirl > barfly > osis > pdx blender

This isn't something I could hit myself, but I would not be surprised if I saw it in a good players shred30, most of the moves can be set low, it's easy 4's and easy 5's and easy 3's where needed.

Ofcourse, some people will have different ideas about this than me

[Jeremy]

I always work out at least 33 - 34 - which isn't because I think I can hit that many but because I don't want to get to the end and still have time for one more move - better to run out of time than to run out of moves in my opinion.

[setman]

that's my shred 30 for worlds:

dim > blur > park > bliz > dim > blur > park > bliz > atom > smear > fear > phoenix > side > rip > side > rip > blr whl > blr whl > duck clp > duck but > div but > duck but > div but > duck clip > spin but > spn whl > scorpion > mobius

[sidekick]

Thanks for all the responses! I hope more people vote, I wanted to get a good poll of a lot of shredders to see what the median amount of tricks are, but it seems like the most anyone thinks they could do is 34 or 35.

Is there any record for how many tricks someone has thrown in a Shred 30? I know that Vasek has the record for points, but just the amount of tricks is another question. Even if somone hit 37 swirls, it'd still be 37 tricks

[slapdash21]

most of what vasek does is fast shuffle anyway, but i bet some other players could put more tricks in if they worked towards that.

[Outsider]

I cast my vote in the 35-36 option.

I typically seem to be able to hit 33-34 in a dropless shred30. I'm pretty sure that its the due to the basic tricks I rely on, like whirl and swirl on both sides. Small tricks, they don't take much time.

At the French Open 2004, they told me I had 36 contacts. I didn't observe the tape myself, so I'm a little skeptical, but not because I don't think I could do that many moves, but, in part, because I had at least one drop in that shred. So, for one thing, that drop counted as one of the 36 contacts (at least, it should have; drops in shred 30 are a zero ADD contact,) but I don't figure it could have caused the contact count to go up because it must have taken a moment to bend over and pick the bag back up.

Maybe they just let the timer run a second or two too long. I don't know. Besides the high number of contacts it wasn't a good enough shred that I cared to watch it, time it, and score it myself. Even with just one drop (there might have been more, I can't remember) I only scored about 150. I recall feeling shakey and just not in control enough to do many uniques; I BOPped alot just to try to keep it off the ground, which, in the end, is my ultimate strategy: do what you have to to keep the bag in the air, 'cause you don't get no points while the bag is on the ground.

Anyway, I am confident (though not totally certain) that I could do more than 36 contacts in 30 seconds. It is, in fact, my strategy and goal for shred30. I'm just not that focused on shred right now. I've spent plenty of time skooling to do a better shred30 in the past, and right now I'd rather spend my energies on different footbag goals. When I do decide to skool my shred again I am hoping to hit 37 or 38 tricks in my 30 seconds.

As for the other question, what unusual kinds of tricks do I use in shred, I have often used swirling and reverse swirling dragons in shred30, as well as dragon rakes and flapper stalls. Dragon rake is actually my most reliable move out of flapper stall, so they usually go together. I have improved my whirling dragons alot lately too, and I might never have really skooled those at all if it hadn't occurred to me that I could squeeze those into my shred30 (another small, quick, unique trick). It is also a goal of mine to include guiltless flyers in my shred, just for the hell of it, but I don't think I've ever done that yet. Six or seven years ago, Eric Wulff was one of the best competitors in the 45 Second Shred contests of those days. He used to bust ducks and dives (of course) and several flyers in his shreds. I assume it was, in part, because they were unique moves, and also because, for him, they were simply dependable. Of course, they were also cool, and I've never seen anyone else do a shred contest anything like it. Flyers and Ducks & Dives and spins, and he could beat everybody but Mulroney back then. I'm not saying he couldn't beat Ryan (for all I know he probably did beat him on occasion), I just mean that if he was having a good day Ryan was almost impossible to beat.

[SlashC]

I can only get about 28-30 tricks in. Probably because I have a ducking section and my pixie sets are quite high.

[bustinjustin]

um, I guess I have this misconception that in a shred 30 you only count the first 30 moves, anything after that doesn't count. I mean its only fair. Lets say Penske and I go for the same shred 30. Due to his size he can probably crank out 35 or so contacts where I would probably hit 30. Now is it fair that he gets that many more contacts just because of his size, I don't think so. Counting only the first 30 sets a level playing field for all players to get a fair maximum score. If you'll notice vasek always finishes on his 30th contact. I thought it was because there is an understanding that you only count 30 contacts. I mean he could probably get 40 in if he wanted but that's unfair to the rest of us because there's no skill level that's going to enable me to go that fast for my body type.
justin
what do you think?

[Caleb]

I beg to differ. I remember a big arguement about whether shred30 was 30 seconds or 30 contacts.....several times actually. And it always ends up with, "Big guys CAN shred fast." I'm no 6'6" Justin Dale. But I'm over 6 feet tall and my shred is typically very fast because I set low. I still shred clean though. It may look goofy to go to an extreme, but you can do a blur faster than a typical Penske blur if you wanted to. You don't need to set high. It's much more convenient but when you're timed everyone adjusts their game a little.

Small guys may have a slight advantage in 30 second shred. I mean Justin's ducks may take a tenth of a second longer than Penske's, but that's the breaks. Body type always plays a role in athletic sports......that's why they're athletic sports. Big guys have a general advantage in footbag anyway. Have you EVER seen Chad D get a stepping set caught under his knee? The man has the biggest leg windows in the game. Any set will be crystal clear for landing. Small guys don't have that. Do you want him to strap some foam padding on his legs to level the playing field for Big3? Haha, joking.

Yes, 30 second shred is a bit in favor of the more petite but it's still a very level playing field. 30 contact shred is way too narrow of an event. The way people's games are these days you'll have 5 guys with 30 unique contacts and 5 guys with shred scores that are within just a point or two. 30 seconds is the best way to go so that it's a real competition. (Even though I think the event would be much more exciting at 45 seconds or contacts these days. 30 is getting to close )

[bustinjustin]

I only completely disagree with what you said.
its still a timed event, its just saying that there's a maximum number of moves in the time frame. It still can play to the advantage if you can't get to the 30 contacts in 30 seconds but you shouldn't be able to go over that. If everyone else hits 30 contacts you've got to go for bigger links and higher adds. But don't rely on being able to add moves in there that I'll never get the time to do. shred 30 is about your best shred not fastest.
Also I have seen chad mess up a step, and I do myself all the time. I think that when it comes to a trick by trick basis its all relative. I think its how you execute the move not how big your windows are that make it easy. Look at david clavens he can hit nemesis easier than I can, and he has way smaller windows. I mean if what you said held true then I would be the best player in the world because I have the biggest windows and thus all moves are easier for me.
that don't jive
j
anyway I am now remembering why I stopped writing on the forums. what a headache.

[shreddaily]

Due to his size he can probably crank out 35 or so contacts where I would probably hit 30. Now is it fair that he gets that many more contacts just because of his size, I don't think so. Counting only the first 30 sets a level playing field for all players to get a fair maximum score.

What about for shredders like me who can only get off 26 contacts in a dropless shred 30?...

But seriously has there ever been a dropless shred 30 lower than 168??? I think I own that record.

[ptaku]

"How big you are" plays role in any single sport. So this isn't any reason in such discusion. I'm 1,8 metres tall (I have no idea how many feet is this), and I know that it's much lower than Caleb's or Justin's heigh. But I can do much more than 30 contacts in 30 seconds, and I'm not as short as Penske, Vasek, Felix (I don't know how short Penske is, becuase I haven't seen in reality, and couldn't coompare him to anyone who I know). I'm pretty sure I can do around 37 contacts in 30 second, if no drops.

And I have one move that isn't a mainstream one. This is exactly Nick`s example - Reverse Swirling ss Pickup. It's really fast move, so it fits shred very well.

Ps. If limit tricks count in shred30 then why don't limit the numbers of steps in 100 metres runing.

[Jeremy]

um, I guess I have this misconception that in a shred 30 you only count the first 30 moves, anything after that doesn't count. I mean its only fair. Lets say Penske and I go for the same shred 30. Due to his size he can probably crank out 35 or so contacts where I would probably hit 30. Now is it fair that he gets that many more contacts just because of his size, I don't think so. Counting only the first 30 sets a level playing field for all players to get a fair maximum score. If you'll notice vasek always finishes on his 30th contact. I thought it was because there is an understanding that you only count 30 contacts. I mean he could probably get 40 in if he wanted but that's unfair to the rest of us because there's no skill level that's going to enable me to go that fast for my body type.
justin
what do you think?

I notice that he always finishes right at the end of the 30 seconds... I disagree that shred 30 should be 30 contacts.

[Uranos]

I think Vasek stopped at 30 contacts because thats what he planned and even if he had time he wouldnt wanna try some other tricks that might result in a drop due to confusion, thus lowering his score.

[bustinjustin]

I don't think I've ever seen vaseks name in the same sentence with "confusion" "drop" and "lowering his score." I don't really know he takes that into consideration, I mean he can shred for like 10 minutes straight.

I just wish there was some way for physics to solve this debate. Y'know like timing, body type ratios, and speed, so we could really see how the numbers break down, and see what's fair. Otherwise it's all speculation.

also sorry if I've come off like a jerk. not intentional. it just seems that way when i read my own posts.
j

[Senor Grommet]

Again, this debate all comes down to the purpose of Shred 30. So, what is the purpose of Shred 30? I believe that Shred 30 is supposed to be the best method for identifying the best "shredder" in the game.

To ME, shredding implies the following: impromptu freestyle trick linking, a good percentage of hard tricks, use of ADD system to measure difficulty b/c no other scoring system is reliable yet, high difficulty throughout, go for as long as bag is off the ground.

What Shred 30 is NOT: speed based, style based, unique based, easy trick based.


If this is the case, to ME Shred 30 needs to be have a firm rule system that allows for the purpose of the event to be fulfilled. I believe that one way Shred 30 can fulfill its purpose is by limiting competitors to a maximum number of tricks that can he hit within the time limit. Secondly, I believe that uniques should play little to NO ROLE in determining the winner of a Shred 30 competition. As it is today, uniques basically comtribute to a doubling of the score, or something ludicrous like that. In place of the "uniques" part of the Shred 30 scoring system, I would propose a "repeated tricks" component, where players would be slightly penalized for repeating the same tricks in a Shred 30.

For example, who is shredding harder?:
Player A: butt>infinity>osis>op osis>pdx mirage>toe drifter> whirl>drif>whirl>pdx illusion>dlo>pixie clipper
Player B: ripwalk>rip>sidewalk>blur>legbeater>blur>pixie butt>ripwalk>sidewalk> ripwalk>sidewalk>ripwalk


To me, it is easy to see that Player B is shredding harder, as exemplified by the tripless level of play. But with Shred 30 scoring, Player A gets credit for 12 uniques and player B gets 7 uniques, so that their total scores (below) are not representative of the level of shred difficulty.

Scoring breakdown is here:
Player A: 36adds + (12uniques x3add ratio)= 72 total score
Player B: 48adds + (7uniques x4add ratio)= 76 total score
(where Adds + (uniques * add ratio). Add ratio: adds / contacts.)

So, while Player B throws down only 4 adds, he/she only narrowly beats Player A who only throws down 3s. That’s bullcrap. Since measuring the level of shred difficulty is what a Shred 30 is supposed to be all about, it is clear that the current Shred30 scoring system is outdated!!!