LWC: Overall Champion

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Anz
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LWC: Overall Champion

Post by Anz » 10 Apr 2009 01:39

LWC stands for LikeWater Conclusion. Which means discussion results from the LikeWater forum are summarised and posted here, so that the real community can get their hands on them and continue the discussion.

********************

Topic conclusion from the LikeWater forum:
OVERALL CHAMPION

POLL:
Overall freestyle champion 25%
Routine champion 25%
Circle champion 0%
No overall champion at all 50%

total votes: 16


"Overall freestyle champion?"
Discussion started from pointing of the fact that the world champion has been the one who won routines at Worlds, but now different forms of competition (Circle) are also getting respect, and several players are called the world champions. Maybe the best of the best could be found by overall success in all disciplines. Who would earn the most points would be the overall champion in freestyle.
Different disciplines are Routines, Circle, Shred30, Sick3 and Request, but not all of them should have to be taken account.

Here are summarised opinions for the idea of overall champion and against it.

For:
- overall champion would determine who is the best of the best
- this would bring more participants in each discipline <> Routine and Circle are big enough for overall champion
- with the right formula you could have balanced point system awarding each discipline fair

Against:
- players are specialising in different disciplines <> routines still need the most work to prepare
- There's no need for an overall champion
- some disciplines have too big luck factor
- other disciplines deserve more respect


Conclusion: With players specialising in different disciplines, there's no need for an overall champion.


The major participants in the discussion, impacting the outcome:
Andrew Grant
Anssi Sundberg
Ianek Regimbald
Jay Boychuk
Michal Biarda
Olaf Piwowar
Paul Cronjaeger
Szymon Kalwak


Summarised by Anssi Sundberg

********************

Similar topic on Modified from two years ago:
http://www.modified.in/footbag/viewtopi ... highlight=


PS. If you wish to rant about the morals (etc.) of hidden forums, this is not the right thread for it.

Kyle Hewitt
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Post by Kyle Hewitt » 10 Apr 2009 02:55

i agree

you can use only 1 event to tell who the over all champ is.

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Post by Zjeezy » 10 Apr 2009 06:46

I like the idea of having an overall champion.

It would let some players who are not as good in one discipline make it up by doing well in the field they are best at. It would also take a lot of pressure of a single event. If 3 people had dropless routines and you have 1 drop you could still be champion. And that one drop wouldnt ruin your odds at winning overall.

I dont really get why circle comp had 0% of the votes. When it is the most accurate way of showing how people actually freestyle.
- this would bring more participants in each discipline
I think this is an important factor as well. Many players dont like routines because its not how freestyle is playing outside of competing. Also let me point of Sergey who said he hated routines and still got 3rd was it? Even though he didnt like it he made a good routine and performed well. Having people it more events will really showcase what a certain players is good at, being it big links, long strings, choreography, etc.
- some disciplines have too big luck factor
I can only assume your talking about big 3 or request with this. There is always a little bit of luck involved with footbag, but no one in their right mind is going to go for a trick that takes mostly luck in their routine. They use big tricks they are comfortable with. While sick 1 and sick 3 its all about taking risks and trying hard moves/combos.
- other disciplines deserve more respect
I think making a balanced system and having an overall competition will make people respect the disciplines more. You should not be able to win overall champion unless you compete in all events.

just my two cents. Good topic though.

Are no Americans involved in Like Water?
zach jahner

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Post by Frank_Sinatra » 10 Apr 2009 07:30

A couple 'pros' that I'd like to add to the idea of an overall champion, though maybe this is just a different way of saying some of the previous points? Just some rough thoughts:

- reduced likelihood of controversy over results (i.e. who can call themself "world champ" if one person wins routines but another wins circle)
- may be beneficial to footbag to have one world champ?
- "official" competitive formats are in need of an update in general

Just my two cents.

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Post by Zac Miley » 10 Apr 2009 09:08

Zjeezy wrote:
Are no Americans involved in Like Water?
A few, but on different topics.
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*

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Post by james » 10 Apr 2009 10:23

we can discuss it but the conclusion has been reached already...
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Post by Tsiangkun » 10 Apr 2009 10:42

Yep, the discussion has already been had. No need to talk about it here too.

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Post by Iron Clad Ben » 10 Apr 2009 11:58

Please explain how the overall champion is determined quantitatively

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Anz
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Post by Anz » 10 Apr 2009 12:49

Oh yeah - since this is the first material we're realeasing, I could use some feedback on the actual work, my summarising and the concluding. This is for the community, and we try to make this as good as it can be. Thanks.
Please explain how the overall champion is determined quantitatively
Overall champion could be determined by various means, but right now there's no need.
who can call themself "world champ" if one person wins routines but another wins circle
They all are world champions. Right know the champions are Damian Gielnicki, Tuomas Riisalo, Olaf, Vasek and Honza, ---

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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy » 12 Apr 2009 02:17

No matter what you concluded, it would have no impact on whether there is an overall champion or not. Only the IFPA or the IFC could make such a decision. If you decided there should be an overall champion you'd then have to write a submission and convince either the WOC, BoD or IFC-Freestyle of your case (or possibly the tournament/freestyle director at each world championships. Rather excessively bureaucratic in my opinion.

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Post by PoisonTaffy » 26 Apr 2009 10:21

How can you NOT have a world/overall champion for the sport? It's like a country without a capital.

If I'd get a vote I'd throw it in the circles basket, from what I saw it gives the players more than enough opportunity to prove themselves in every important element of the game. It also captures the spirit of "freestyle" better than routines.
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Post by Leuch » 30 Apr 2009 02:48

Anz wrote: They all are world champions. Right know the champions are Damian Gielnicki, Tuomas Riisalo, Olaf, Vasek and Honza, ---
and Serge Kaldany, nan?
Sr. Yakob Wagner?
:roll:
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Post by Cod » 30 Apr 2009 08:52

Charles, I believe this "---" meant Serge, Jakob and few other guys ;).
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Post by crazylegs32 » 02 Jul 2009 22:44

Ok is there any question that the world champions in the past years are also really good at circle? Whats the point? Routines determines the champion. Routines make most people play like crap and ive hardly ever seen a good routine. Shredding is way easier than a great routine.

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Post by sen » 04 Jul 2009 19:32

There is no need? How about in legitimizing the sport?

Other than that, Jeremy's right. A bunch of guys on a closed forum don't change or make the rules.

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Post by Jeremy » 04 Jul 2009 19:44

I'm sure some exist, but I can't really think of a single sport with a "overall champion." I'm not sure how it would legitimise the sport. Running doesn't have one. Swimming doesn't have one. Actually maybe there is one in gymnastics? But in all those sports, you win a particular event and you are the champion of that event. You have a parallel bars champion, a 100m sprint champion, a 200m butterfly champion. Likewise a routine champion, a shred 30 champion, a circle champion etc.

I'm fairly sure this point has been made numerous times.

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Post by crazylegs32 » 04 Jul 2009 21:01

I didnt say there was no need to determine a champ. Routines determines champ. I do think routines has a loooooong way to go before that form is done with. Its like fighting- you can beat everyone in towns ass and thats good, you arent one of the best though. To be one of the best you have to beat the best in an actual sanctioned competition- period. (and yes youll pay an entry fee) If you wanna do it by youtube videos youre just another Kimbo.

Edit-the way to legitimize the "sport" would be to have frequent events with lots of competitors. It has absolutely nothing to do with naming champions.

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Post by Jeremy » 04 Jul 2009 22:54

There is no part of any footbag rules that I'm aware of that says that "routines determines champion." People may think whatever they like, but officially winning routines only makes you the "routine champion" and not the champion of anything else. Just like in swimming, athletics, speed skating, cycling etc.

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