Descriptive System of Freestyle Footbag Elements

[ianek]

In the past 5 years, i’ve been working on a better way to name and categorize all freestyle footbag elements. The result is a naming system wich is more descriptive, with less nicknames to remember. To do so, i needed to update/change existing names and add new vocabulary. So i made a list of mostly all possible moves we could do, with a basic description of all concepts. Then i filmed myself doing many moves, i ended up with 589 videos. With an efficient naming system and a lot of videos, i think we have a very good tool to promote and teach our sport to newcomers.

About videos: the mindset behind the video project was to have “look at what is possibleâ€

[qphox]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ianek]

[Anz]

Good job guys. This is another step forward for footbag.

Remember, this system has nothing to do with the add system and it does nor prevent you from using trick nicknames. You can still call Stepping Down a Ripwalk and Open Down a Dimwalk (and say they're four adds, if it's important to you).

There's less than a dozen common terms that are changing, so it should not take long to learn them. Now that you're posting about tricks on modified, for example New Runs, try to start using the new terms right away.

Also for those who have a footbag website or videos on YouTube - please update your site terminology according to the DS. Here is an example of the Footbag Finland YouTube account.

[Mathochist]

Wow. Interesting. Clearly the result of lots of work.

My only nit pick so far is that the description of Leg Position, I think distinguishing between the footbag active (i.e. dex, delay, whatever) leg and the support leg would be more specific than calling them the first and second leg.

On the whole, this is an outstanding effort full of great ideas. I'm a fan.

Shut down is way cooler than fairy butterfly.

[Corey]

That looks awesome! I wish I had found this when I started.
Sticky?

[MathieuGM]

Awsome Work Ianek.

I will start using this system right away.

Mat

[qphox]

Shut down is way cooler than fairy butterfly.

And completely unintentional.

What was arguably the lamest trick name has transformed into what is now arguably the most badass.

[calemccoy]

the dex cleanliness section ignores leggy vs. hippy dexes; the description should say that a clean dex is between ankle and knee when done leggy, and between knee and hip when done hippy, etc.

[calemccoy]

thatsaid, i do not particularly enjoy this system... alot of the "explanations" of why the change was made dont make much sense, and some names are just as far-fetched as any we use today. for instance:

"phasing" is replaced with "shut slashing" for the explanation that it is uncommon and doesnt need a nickname... but then whats the difference what we call it? 'shut slashing' is even longer.

"stepping" and "stepping far" replace "stepping" and "blurry" under the explanation that it eliminates the need to differentiate between the two, when theres still two names for it, just with different letters.

"late" clipper should be "turning", and "late" used to describe downtime instead of "wait" which is gramatically awkward in comparison.

lastly, i second that "first" and "second" leg could confuse, and should be "support" and "active" leg, or something of that nature.

overall, i feel it has 80% of the shortcomings, just with slightly less ridiculous names. that said, i admire ianek immensely for putting forth what is obviously an immense amount of effort. i guess i just want to stick to what i know, and would be annoyed if people at tourneys started calling things different names than whats been used for the past decade.

[SlashC]

I support this descriptive system. Props to everyone who made this system into a reality (especially Ianek).

[Ian Brill]

thatsaid, i do not particularly enjoy this system... alot of the "explanations" of why the change was made dont make much sense, and some names are just as far-fetched as any we use today. for instance:

"phasing" is replaced with "shut slashing" for the explanation that it is uncommon and doesnt need a nickname... but then whats the difference what we call it? 'shut slashing' is even longer.

"stepping" and "stepping far" replace "stepping" and "blurry" under the explanation that it eliminates the need to differentiate between the two, when theres still two names for it, just with different letters.

"late" clipper should be "turning", and "late" used to describe downtime instead of "wait" which is gramatically awkward in comparison.

lastly, i second that "first" and "second" leg could confuse, and should be "support" and "active" leg, or something of that nature.

overall, i feel it has 80% of the shortcomings, just with slightly less ridiculous names. that said, i admire ianek immensely for putting forth what is obviously an immense amount of effort. i guess i just want to stick to what i know, and would be annoyed if people at tourneys started calling things different names than whats been used for the past decade.

My props go to all who put the effort into creating this system and to Calem for clearly articulating how I feel about the end-result.

I propose there should be a voluntary, anonymous vote among all attendees at worlds regarding final decision on some of these "loose-ends" that have been brought up in this thread.

Thanks again for the effort.

[hacksterbator]

Props to ianek and company for trying to do something about a problem we have all known about for a long time.

having now read it front to back and having had a night to sleep on it, i think there's some good stuff in there once you get your head around it.

I also have to agree with cale about many of his points. What's the point in having axel, spindle, torsion, etc. when you could just say "late near toe" "late far inside" etc. while eliminating phasing. with the exception of osis, phasing is far more common than most of those other late's. creating new nicknames where they weren't necessary.

I agree with cale about "late" being a better name for "wait". it's easy, and it makes more sense to say "quick drifter" and "late drifter", as opposed to "wait drifter". "Turning" also makes alot of sense, because it's more turn than spin.

the double use of "near" and "far" as both a set and body position confused the crap out of me. "same" and "op" should be used in exchange for one of those pairs save on confusion.

The support vs active leg differentiation would be great. support leg is already used on occasion in certain descriptions.

the unfortunate part about this system is that every one still has to learn jobs if they want to understand the competitive side of freestyle, unless ianek has a difficulty system up his sleeve, which really wouldn't surprise me

After talking with some others, we agreed that the most disappointing aspect of this release is the failure to include any artistic posing nomenclature.

[qphox]

I've kinda been using these terms for about two years, so they make a ton of sense to me. Some people may want to re-read what Anssi has written.

"phasing" is replaced with "shut slashing" for the explanation that it is uncommon and doesnt need a nickname... but then whats the difference what we call it? 'shut slashing' is even longer.

"stepping" and "stepping far" replace "stepping" and "blurry" under the explanation that it eliminates the need to differentiate between the two, when theres still two names for it, just with different letters.

This is kind of what Anssi has stated. This system is not looking to prevent players from using nicknames. Rather, this system is cutting everything down to its fundamental components. Personally, I am probably going to continue saying "Sailing", even though the DS identifies it as "Open Atomic".

In the same vein, "Blurry" is an elaboration on two things that are already accounted for in the DS, so it is named as such. "Stepping Far" is not "another name", it's a clarification of position. Blurry was "stepping paradox", and now that paradox has left the building, blurry can follow suit..."no more need to differentiate" is talking about Stepping Far tricks that were paradox VS. Stepping Far tricks that were not.

Overall, if I was given the decision between making a new player learn 2 names for each set (for each near and far), as opposed to learning 1 name for each set as well as the concept of "near and far"...the second option makes a lot more sense.

"late" clipper should be "turning", and "late" used to describe downtime instead of "wait" which is gramatically awkward in comparison.

As far as Wait and Quick, as it says, these words are not mandatory in a trick's description unless you really want to specify what was done (kinda like mute)...and and if the grammatical correctness is important to you, you might say something like, "quick-style symp whirl" vs. "wait-style symp whirl". But that said, have you ever had a problem with saying "That was the." ?

The word "Late" refers to the 'last-minute' aspect of the execution. Arguably, gyro anything is also "turning". Gyro clipper and Osis both have the same things going on, just at different times. If I say "Late ANYTHING", and you know what the term 'late' means, it makes sense immediately.

My only nit pick so far is that the description of Leg Position, I think distinguishing between the footbag active (i.e. dex, delay, whatever) leg and the support leg would be more specific than calling them the first and second leg.

I don't think it's that big of an issue but this may be a valid argument...I did a quick search and it looks like the "support leg" is referred to as the "second leg" once in the entire document:

3-Leg Position

...

3) Cross: when your leg crosses behind your second leg, and ends on the opposite side of your body.

The only reason I can think of that it might not work is in the case of a Zipper Pound, in which case the "active leg" = "support leg". ('Support leg' appears twice in the DS, and in both cases, the leg must be planted). I don't think it's that big of an issue though.

the double use of "near" and "far" as both a set and body position confused the crap out of me. "same" and "op" should be used in exchange for one of those pairs save on confusion.

It is my understanding that same/opp were eliminated to avoid confusion about "leg vs. side". ie: toe set same swirl.

The Body Side refers to "At any point in a trick, if you say 'Far', the next thing is going to happen on the other side of your body. If you say 'Near', the next thing is going to happen on the same side of your body." Obviously you know this.

It's a double use because it is the same thing going on. Either the bag stays on the same side or it does not.

the unfortunate part about this system is that every one still has to learn jobs if they want to understand the competitive side of freestyle

See, this is the thing. I think competition is leaning away from the "objective difficulty" (ie: shred30) and moving more towards the idea of competent judges who know what is difficult and what is not. For the top 300 players in the world, is paradox mirage really that much harder than clip set near mirage? This system is looking to quell some of the stagnation in the global footbag scene, and show people what freestyle SHOULD look like.

Circle kind of encourages that, in that if you're the guy in the circle hitting stuff no one else can, you're going to stand out. *thumbs up*.

That's enough for now.




Note: I started laughing before I even clicked that link. Immortalized.

[Frank_Sinatra]

Props to Ianek & all involved for all their hard work. Probably like a lot of people, ever since I started learning freestyle & the nomenclature I've thought something like this was needed. Very good job.

The only thing that I'm currently finding confusing is under part 6 - basic sets. I think "near" meaning from side to near (e.g. clipper set near mirage) just makes more intuitive sense, but that's also because that's how I've already been using the term. So maybe like Anz & others said I'll get used to it with time.

Also, there's some hard ass tricks in there! Whirling crossbody heel? Props.

...and thanks to Andrew for posting that link.

[cd]

My prediction for the main effect this naming system has on the sport: A dramatic increase in the number of people hitting Toe>same out>>op out>op clip.

fairy butterfly < shut down

[Psilocybe]

This is awesome! I think now would be a great to time to redo the move list from scratch.

[qphox]

This is awesome! I think now would be a great to time to redo the move list from scratch.

I'd considered that as well...shouldn't be too difficult with a simple search/replace.

FIRST: double legover -> mixer
THEN: legover -> switch

[Psilocybe]

I'd considered that as well...shouldn't be too difficult with a simple search/replace.

FIRST: double legover -> mixer
THEN: legover -> switch

Well, that, and in the spirit of getting rid of uncommon moves - deleting some entries as well. Or if not that, adding moves that are absent from the list. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice if the list were complete in one form or another. But we digress...

[abstract]

thanks for all the work that went into this. i have always thought of ADD system as purely descriptive, despite the tack-on components to simulate difficulty. i am glad that this project has so much support.

digesting...

buh-bye, pixie & fairy. yesssssss.