Overall Freestyle Champions

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 27 Jan 2003 12:06

Hey there,

I was thinking about how it is a rarity to have an overall competitor at World's now that the level of play in each dicipline (net and freestyle) is so high. How about having an Overall Freestyle champion. The champion would be determined by the highest combined score from Shred 30, Big 3, singles routine and doubles routine. I'm curious what you guys think about that idea.

-Jane

max · Post by **max** » 27 Jan 2003 15:45

i think this is just waiting to happen. maybe team should be left out, maybe not.

QuantumBalance · Post by **QuantumBalance** » 27 Jan 2003 16:05

you must win shred 30 and sick 3 to be champion in my book

madshred2003 · Post by **madshred2003** » 27 Jan 2003 16:42

i believe the true champion is the one who devotes his/her time and energy to the sport for love of the game rather than for the title of "champion"

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 27 Jan 2003 16:47

The amount of control you need to move around with a bag for 2 minutes of music is a worthy skill. I think the Overall Champion should be a well-rounded player, so Shred 30 & Big 3 alone shouldn't be the only determiners.

The best shredder in the World shouldn't have a problem putting together a routine---that proves the player's consistency which Big 3 alone doesn't (from what I've seen so far Big 3 has a high element of luck). Take Vasek and Ryan, for example, they excel at all categories...they are true champions. I think the meaning of "champion" is skewed in freestyle footbag when it only pertains to routines. Same for women's freestyle...Carol was the top women's shredder and the top women's routine at Worlds--definitely worthy of the title "freestyle champion".

Without naming names, there have been so many years that players have been ranked higher than they should be by only hitting routine fluff and throwing on a big grin. By having an overall champion that takes shred AND routine into consideration it helps normalize the results.

I guess I don't know how I feel about doubles...it's another freestyle skill...

bob · Post by **bob** » 27 Jan 2003 17:29

i know that i'll probably get reemed for saying this but i really wish footbag would move more towards a shred based system rather than routine system. i think we need to keep originality in mind and reward it but at the same time i think that the 2 minute routines are getting outdated. i mean, anyone who watched vasek's shred 30 had to be blown away. footbaggers tend to work on shredding now rather than routines. therefore i voted for shred 30.

bob

madshred2003 · Post by **madshred2003** » 27 Jan 2003 17:51

bob wrote:i think we need to keep originality in mind

you made some good points. but just take a look at Zerbe's performance this past worlds. it was incredible! riding out on a trisicle! there's tons of room for creativity. people are so focused on winning i think though. i still cry laughing at the sight of a footbagging fiend in a speedo with a flaming footbag!~

thank you Alex Zerbe!

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 27 Jan 2003 18:46

Good topic Jane,

I'll talk about this more later but I do have to say that a problem with shred 30 is that, to a non-footbag playing spectator, most of the shred looks the same. In a routine there is more room to mix it up.

And those weren't speedos, the were sex shop pants

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 27 Jan 2003 21:29

oi.

I put both shred and routine. I think you have to be able to consistantly bust big, and be able to keep the bag alive for ever while looking cool.

I am in favor of a shred based system also somewhat, but in a different way. I think players should get their hardest tricks together for their 2 minute routine and still do it with dropless style. Take me for example, I'm not champion material by far, but as long as were not talking about consecutive butterflys, I can go guiltless for the same amount of tricks I can go tripless usually, its just how I train.

Grischa · Post by **Grischa** » 28 Jan 2003 07:46

the freestyle overall champion should be the routine and shred winner.
routine as demonstration of total bag control for a long time, while hitting hard tricks and shred to show the real big moves.

team freestyle should be a least included as a bonus, it says "overall" freestyle champion.

G*

Ps : big3 should not be included, it depends too much on luck !

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 28 Jan 2003 10:39

I've been showing footbag tapes to non-footbag players and one comment they all make is that it all looks the same. I realize that the younger generation can distinguish between more technical tricks but at the same time I believe that footbag has a long way to go as a form of body movment.

I voted for the final option, the one that includes doubles. And I'd like to make a comparison between footbag and other sports to explain why.

For a gymnastics team to win, they have to do well in *all* the catergories. All the different gymnastics catergories look very different. Same with skateboarding. You have street and vert. and in street there's tons of different obstacles to do different things with. That makes it way more interesting for the auidence and players alike.

I'm really in favor for including every catergory we can into the title "overall champion" What about an obstacle footbag competition? I think the more things footbaggers can do with a footbag is only going to lead to more public appeal. I realize that most of the people on this list are shredders and that's why you want to see shred. However, I think for the sport of footbag to grow we have to more versitile than that.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » 28 Jan 2003 10:46

http://modified.ca/footbag

CICFreestyler 17 · Post by **CICFreestyler 17** » 28 Jan 2003 11:58

How can you say that big 3 is luck? That would be like saying a player that does a 2 minute routine dropless was lucky. People practice for the Big 3 just as they do any other competition. The comment about people hitting "routine fluff" and putting on a big smile is rediculous! I think it is called a "routine" for a reason. Personally my favorite routine is Ryans from this years worlds. He looked so confident and smooth with what he was hitting and he just flowed with the music. This is what a routine is all about, not necesarilly going big. Also, shred 30 and two minute routines alone are not good enough to measure the overall winner. In shred 30 not that many ground breaking moves and combos are hit. Sure there are some big moves and combos being hit, but the ones that are truly pushing our sport to the next level are hit in the big 3. Routines, shred 30 and big 3 should all be considered when deciding the overall champion. About the audience, I don't think they can tell the difference between any competition. If you asked every non-footbag player in the palace of fine arts on finals night who they thought won routines, my guess would be the very good majority would have said Ryan. A cool doubles routine is fun to watch but because it is not an individual event I am unsure how you would tie it into the overall winner, especially if #1 and #2 were doing a doubles routine together.

Brian Parsons
Chicago Inner Circle

bob · Post by **bob** » 28 Jan 2003 12:10

i agree alot with what parsons just said. i really enjoy watching the big 3 and i like to think that the audience does too. i mean, people can tell easy tricks from hard tricks a majority of the time. i just think that people watch routine and get bored. ESPECIALLY if there is any drops. it's just a momentum killer. i think shred and big 3 are where its at.

bob

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 28 Jan 2003 13:24

I can easily say Big 3 is luck! (that doesn't necessarily mean *always*)
First hand experience...at an event in the past, I hit my Big 3 all week long-- everytime I tried it, I nailed it, no problem. Whereas, my competition couldn't even link out of their first trick all weekend long...missed it every single try. When it came to comp time, the ONE time I needed to hit my dialed big 3, i missed it and only could hit my back-up big 3 which wasn't quite "BIG" enough. I couldn't believe I missed my stock combo, I had it wired. Needless to say, my competition hit their Big 3 for the first time, only that one single time, for the first time...then right afterwards, my Big 3 was back again...hitting it everytime, and this other player, once again, couldn't hit their Big 3 combo at all. You see...luck, good for some, bad for me in this case

--easily said.
And YES,sometimes a dropless routine can be luck too, but that's precisely why I think a combined overall score would normalize the results...an accumilitive score helps weed out standard error (luck, good or bad). If you flub up, you still have a chance to redeem yourself.

I think an overall score eliminates the question of "Was this player just lucky, or what?" and makes the ranking more accurately deserved based on an overall performance. It doesn't sound like anyone's really contesting that concept though.

Matt · Post by **Matt** » 28 Jan 2003 13:35

maybe you do worse under pressure and you comp does better...

I voted for big 3 because i wanted to be a rebel.

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 28 Jan 2003 13:37

I definitely do worse under pressure. But I don't generally feel pressure during Shred 30 or Big 3...only during singles routine (not doubles). I typically choke at singles routines--ugh, just thinking about it...

CICFreestyler 17 · Post by **CICFreestyler 17** » 28 Jan 2003 13:51

I must be missing something...You were nailing your combo all week long and then it comes to comp time and you can't hit it, but you don't feel pressure in big 3. I would say this has more to do with pressure than luck! I think you are taking something away from the amazing players that go on stage and execute, under high pressure circumstances, an unbeleivable big 3 or a flawless routine. These people have skooled their asses off, give them the credit they deserve!!! Ryan was not lucky for hitting his dropless routine, would that be 3 years in a row in the finals?

Brian Parsons
CIC

Juana · Post by **Juana** » 28 Jan 2003 14:04

well now, i don't compete against Ryan, so obviously I'm not talking about him... And I did say "not *always*" with regards to luck...sometimes it is just sheer trained, practiced and rehearsed skill. So, I'm not, nor have I ever, discounted amazing skill, devotion and determination that some folks put into their events.

And again, *no*, I don't feel pressure in Big 3 or shred 30(and I would say that I'm the only person that can truly know this for sure about myself)...that's why I say bad luck. I just couldn't hit it the one time I needed it. It's more a matter of probability/odds than choking in Big 3 for me. I hit my combo say every 19/20 tries. I had been hitting it all week, so I was bound to eventually miss it. BUt I covered by hitting my back-up which wasn't that bad either ("for a girl"

) And I'm not saying the other person wasn't worthy of props--that's phat that they busted fat when it counted...that's what makes competition exciting. of course, that doesn't mean everyone relies on luck...some people spend countless hours painstakingly training for each event.

My big 3 was actually just one of my fatter combos that I hit all the time in strings and chose to use for my big 3 that time. I don't practice a big 3 at the moment. and I don't plan out my shred 30...i just go guiltless and try to throw in as many unique 3's and 4's that I can think of while my 30 secs is counting (pretty much just freestylin' for shred 30). Routines, I try to put some thought into.

ANyway, I don't want this thread to be about me...it's about overall, and I think it's a good idea. Brian, you brought up a good point...counting Big 3 in overall would be important in showing who's pushing envelopes...I hadn't thought of it that way.

Oh, and my comment about routine "fluff" and cheesy grins still stands

!

It's moving away from this more now that people are able to have insanely difficult routines. Savanna will back me upon that, right noah?

times are-a-changing though.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 28 Jan 2003 16:37

I dont think you should have an overall world champion.. Rather a singles champion, a shred champion, and a best 3 champion. If he happens to take all three titles, good for him, but i think all disciplines should be respected equally. Either way you slice it, if you win best three, beating out the singles champion, your the man. On the same token if you win routines and beat out the guy who won big three and shred then thats hell of a accomplishment too in my book.

I dont really like doubles. I only liked MIXED doubles. I dont like it because of the fact it involves two guys at the same time. To me this seems gay (no offence homos). Its not like you see two guys figure skating together. can you imagine how faggy that would be. In all other sports they mix up the sexes when its a doubles routine. Im all down for mixed doubles!!!! To bad their aren't enough girls to make Mixed doubles the true doubles event in freestyle.... This would make us look 10 times cooler, but instead we have gay ass regular doubles. Lets get all the faggy shit out of hack please. And girl footbaggers, please get more girls into it.

Overall Freestyle Champions

Who is the true Freestyle champion?

Overall Freestyle Champions

freestyle overall champion