Obama: Straight Facts

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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy » 11 Mar 2008 14:41

The last sentence should end with a question mark.

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Post by BainbridgeShred » 11 Mar 2008 14:42

Uhm... As far as that abortion comment goes, I think that's reprehensible and moronic. Arguing over whether life begins at conception or at first breathe is a fruitless endeavor, because it goes around the issue that a potential human being is being terminated. It isn't like a baby doesn't have thoughts or feel pain just because it's in the womb. Of course it's up to the woman since the fetus is part of her body until the chord is cut, but trying to claim that abortion doesn't harm anyone is immature. Abortion devastates a lot of women, and is basically the mass termination of an unwanted potential sector of society, regardless of when you think a human becomes a human which is such a dumb fucking argument to go down.

As far as the gay marriage thing goes, gay people can't have children, and thus don't deserve the tax breaks that go along with hetero-sexual marriage. If gay couples want to adopt, I would be fine with giving them tax breaks, and neither am I for any giving other hetero childless couples tax breaks.
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Post by Frank_Sinatra » 11 Mar 2008 14:45

HDS, I didn't imply racism on your part, I flat out stated it. Because you post racist shit & approving links to sites full of racist shit. And I stated that you don't know anything about Brzezinski (or anything else) because you failed to demonstrate basic knowledge of who he is, and you generally fail to demonstrate basic knowledge of facts, or to logically tie facts together into plausible explanations for a given phenomenon. Interesting how after getting caught in your typical intellectual dishonesty you come back with a totally tangential response.

Bainbridgeshred - so, should straight married couples that don't have kids not be allowed to get married? Also, how does marriage increase your taxes?

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Jeremy
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Post by Jeremy » 11 Mar 2008 14:52

BainbridgeShred wrote:Uhm... As far as that abortion comment goes, I think that's reprehensible and moronic. Arguing over whether life begins at conception or at first breathe is a fruitless endeavor, because it goes around the issue that a potential human being is being terminated. It isn't like a baby doesn't have thoughts or feel pain just because it's in the womb. Of course it's up to the woman since the fetus is part of her body until the chord is cut, but trying to claim that abortion doesn't harm anyone is immature. Abortion devastates a lot of women, and is basically the mass termination of an unwanted potential sector of society, regardless of when you think a human becomes a human which is such a dumb fucking argument to go down.
So what is the actual harm caused? How is this harm different to if I wore a condom, or if I didn't have sex at all? In both instances I prevent a "potential human" from being born. Of course you could argue that there's a difference because of the certainty that a baby will be born in the case of an abortion; but no such certainty exists. The majority of conceptions do not result in a baby. The "potential human" is terminated naturally by the body; obviously at great social harm.

As far as the gay marriage thing goes, gay people can't have children, and thus don't deserve the tax breaks that go along with hetero-sexual marriage. If gay couples want to adopt, I would be fine with giving them tax breaks, and neither am I for any giving other hetero childless couples tax breaks.
So you just care about money? What tax breaks to married people get in the US? I'm not aware of any tax breaks for married people in Australia...

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Post by BainbridgeShred » 11 Mar 2008 15:29

Should just make it clear that this is my first post responding to Jeremy. Previous posts have been in response to others..
So you oppose gay marriage purely on the grounds of financial reasons. You'd prefer to have slightly more money than for other people to be happy. Is this an example of "Christian Values?"
Sure it's good christian values. Good existential christian values. And of course, existential christian values are always the best. Go read your Soren fool. How does it go against my beliefs that I think government should be run practically. If I was like you, and wanted everyones lives tied to the state, then that would proably go against my Christian values.

And I could care less about any amount of money I might see from gays not getting a tax break. What I do care about is honest, practical government. So on an issue that I don't really give a shit about, an issue that is really fucking stupid and subversive to begin with, I will stick to my Libertarian principles.

Also, I never said that gay's shouldn't be allowed to get married or civil unioned. But if they aren't going to help society through their loins then why should the government be doing anything for them? Like I said this issue is really stupid anyways, and I don't get why people get so emotional about it. I don't understand why gays want to get married, or how the word marriage for them would be anything different than a civil union. Why the insistence on the word marriage? Is this really such a big deal? Why can't two guys or girls go have a wedding ceremony and what not and consider themselves married and if they want the taxbreak then fucking adopt. Jesus, moochers.
So what is the actual harm caused? How is this harm different to if I wore a condom, or if I didn't have sex at all? In both instances I prevent a "potential human" from being born. Of course you could argue that there's a difference because of the certainty that a baby will be born in the case of an abortion; but no such certainty exists. The majority of conceptions do not result in a baby. The "potential human" is terminated naturally by the body; obviously at great social harm.
Ah, Jeremy's usual suit: semantics and hypothetical's and bloviating.

Honestly, go back and read your own post and see how silly it sounds. How is an abortion different than not having sex? Do you want a fucking ven-diagram? Jesus man use your brain so I don't always have to explain this shit to you. And by not having sex, there is no potential human being to begin with really ya know? In an abortion, their is a physical being getting snuffed the fuck out. C'mon Jeremy, I know you'd love to make this another "If a tree falls in the forrest" argument, but just admit it, abortion is the ending of a growing human beings life, albeit connected to the body of its mother.

Bainbridgeshred - so, should straight married couples that don't have kids not be allowed to get married? Also, how does marriage increase your taxes?
Look, this is a pretty simple concept here. Gay's can't have kids right? Gays can't contribute kids to society right?
What harm is caused by young teenagers having babies they don't want? Can you measure the overall harm of such a hypothetical question? Can you measure the harm caused by abortions? If an abortion does occur before there is any brain function, what harm is caused?
Bad times make you stronger and a better person. In the nanny state age, I think this is an important lesson that has been forgotten by people like you, who would rather everyone have a government sponsored plan to bail them out no matter what they have gotten themselves in to whether getting pregnant or buying an overpriced home or being a drug addict and not being able to survive without welfare.

What harm is caused by young teenagers having babies? None fool, young teenagers have been having babies for hundreds of thousands of years you 'tard. It's the greedy culture that demeans them and tell's them that a kid will weigh them down and ruin their lives that causes the harm. It's the lack of support and local community in the world today that leaves a lot of women without a father or an option that causes the harm. Not that that isn't an excuse to raise your seed just because you hit hard times. People tell men all the time "Raise your seed, protect your seed, take care of your seed"? Oh word? The same seed that you support being able to terminate up in your guts? Get the fuck out of here with that genocidal shit. I don't buy that shit. Be a real woman and raise your fucking son. Think you're the first person to raise a kid on their own? Don't let idiots like Jeremy tell you you need to get on a program. Pull yourself up and raise your kid. C'mon
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Post by gMoney » 11 Mar 2008 16:21

Pull yourself up and raise your kid. C'mon
Or let a gay couple adopt it. Everybody wins! :D
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Post by dp » 11 Mar 2008 16:38

Why do you correlate ability to have kids and ability to contribute to society?

If you think abortion is definitely wrong in all cases then you must believe life begins at conception. Is 8 cells a human life?
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Post by BainbridgeShred » 11 Mar 2008 17:06

Uhm bro, I never did correlate those two. I think I made it clear that having kids correlates (Or should correlate) to a tax break. Who said anything about benefitting society? I do shit that benefits society all the time and I don't ask for a fucking tax break. As long as government is in the business of playing God though, I think it's a good idea to support reasonable child birth and marriage in general. If gays want to call themselves married, I could care less about that. Ideally, the government shouldn't even be involved in marriage whatsoever, and people should be allowed to marry whatever the fuck they want, inanimate object or not. I just don't give a shit what other people do with their time. Just don't expect my tax money to pay for your gay pride float.

Pirate, like I said, I refuse to get into the semantics of this abortion issue. All I can say is that if I was about to father a child, I would let the girl decide whether to abort it, since it's connected to her stomach after all, but I'd let her know that I probably would never forgive her if she killed my kid. Does life begin at 8 cells? I don't give a shit. All I know is that I could never support the extinction of my baby, and have a hard time relating to anyone who could (Mostly older women who could easily afford to raise it except that it would cramp their precious yuppie lifestyle. Murderers.
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Post by Bringerofpie » 11 Mar 2008 17:08

Plenty of people help society without having children. And as to abortion, there is no brain activity until well into the second or third trimester (obviously individual cases vary). Also, 7/10 pregnancies result in miscarriage or "spontaneous abortion."

Just, FYI, constant ad hominem attacks, cursing, and insults make you lose credibility (at least in my eyes) in serious discussion.
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Post by HG » 11 Mar 2008 17:30

You said "I would let the girl choose whether to abort it or not" THAT IS PRO CHOICE.



Meaning, pro (for) choice (the ability to choose) which is not pro (for) life (government makes you keep)




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Post by shredzilla » 11 Mar 2008 19:15

HG wrote:Lets restrain more freedoms because of religious values! No more shrimp!
I wouldn't call you a shrimp, I think vertically challenged is the term?
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Post by Krafty » 11 Mar 2008 21:49

BainbridgeShred wrote:What harm is caused by young teenagers having babies? None fool, young teenagers have been having babies for hundreds of thousands of years you 'tard. It's the greedy culture that demeans them and tell's them that a kid will weigh them down and ruin their lives that causes the harm.
They say this because it's somewhat true. Taking care of a baby is a huge responsibility that takes up a considerable amount of time. Doing schoolwork in addition to taking care of your child would be extremely challenging to most teenagers.

People say that having a kid as a teen can ruin your life because you have to spend so much time with the baby that a lot of the times, you can't cope with school at the same time.

I don't see how people are being greedy when they tell their sons/daughters that a teenage pregnancy has the potential to ruin their future. It seems like common sense to me.
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Post by BainbridgeShred » 12 Mar 2008 11:39

You're right, my point wasn't to say that having a baby is an easy thing to do. It's the reverse. Having a baby is a really hard thing to do, especially for how easy it is to become impregnated. My point was that tough times build character, and character is something that this society lacks, probably because people are used to having the government able to bail them out no matter what the situation. Of course government alone isn't to blame for this, but what I was really trying to say Krafty, was that abortion is usually not an economic decision, it's a lifestyle choice. Like I said, most women who get abortions are older women who don't want kids with their partner or already have the designated amount they want. That is murder in my opinion. Also, the vast majority of young girls who get abortions (I would probably say atleast 80-85%) also have the means through their family and own work potential to raise a baby in a decent situation. This whole idea of "the baby being better off dead than raised horribly" is a bunch of garabage. Once people decide not to abort the baby, they usually end up as great parents and never look back from not aborting.
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Post by professor » 13 Mar 2008 16:40

Umm...what does any of this have to do with Obama? I mean really, there IS an abortion thread AND a gay marriage thread.


I'd say this thread has become an obamanation. Get it?





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Post by gMoney » 31 Mar 2008 17:02

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Post by Zac Miley » 31 Mar 2008 19:28

She is definitely not ugly.
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Post by crazylegs32 » 06 Jul 2009 22:11

Marriage tax breaks ARE based on procreation. If they want to get married in hotel rooms (churches wont allow it) I have no problem. They still have to pay all their taxes, and the gay marriage thing is gonna open up a huge can of worms in divorce court.

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Post by crazylegs32 » 06 Jul 2009 22:13

oops sorry for posting in Obam a thread :?

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Post by bryan732 » 15 Jan 2010 16:51

lol i thought jeremy might have started this topic cause hes got the obama shirt goin on
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Post by habitat » 17 Jan 2010 13:54

bryan732 wrote:lol i thought jeremy might have started this topic cause hes got the obama shirt goin on
lol i no rite?
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