Legalize it?

LinksYs · Post by **LinksYs** » 20 Jul 2004 23:45

I SAY NO TO DRUGS
It's 10 o'clock at night do you no where your kids are?

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Jul 2004 00:47

ana_ali wrote: The youngest user of this forum maybe about 12-13 years old!! What do you guys think when even the moderators are telling that pot isn't after all so dangerous - what does the little kid think about that?
I hope that they don't freek out I mean. Smoking pot may have some side effects like skitsofrenia.

You now that this is a discussion forum, do you ? You may want to take an encyclopedia and look for what discussion means...
1. Use arguments. No one freaks out and skitsofrenia is a neural disease. You maybe don't know there are natural receptors for cannabinols in the human brain. Diseases, aren't neutral. Please, if don't know a fucking fact about it, shut the f**k up.
2. It's people like you who destroy our childrens natural way of learning about dangerous things. If I tell a kid about the differences between tobacco alcohol and cannabis, I'm telling him the truth. I could also behave like you do, tell some non-sense shit and facts I found in the rainbow press and leave him with a "DON'T... !". But then he learns the facts (negative and positive) from other children who were taught the way you'd do it and end up in alcoholism or worse. It's the same way people 20 years ago taught their children what sexualism is and archieved what ? Results are on a wide spectrum going from "nothing" to "hiv".
3. Please, even if you do, please don't tell me you have children.
Just do me the favor.

P.S.: I'm really sorry, this is the issue, I subscribe my first post without a "please don't feel offended"; it would just be a lie.

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 21 Jul 2004 01:39

ana_ali wrote: The youngest user of this forum maybe about 12-13 years old!! What do you guys think when even the moderators are telling that pot isn't after all so dangerous - what does the little kid think about that?
I hope that they don't freek out I mean. Smoking pot may have some side effects like skitsofrenia.

Well it really isn't so dangerous, not as bad as other things that people do routinely and don't even think about it. If you would like to provide some evidence for your case then feel free, but good luck on trying to link it to schizophrenia

To 12-13 years olds: don't start smoking pot, it's not the smartest thing to do when you're that young. When you get a bit older, read up about it online on www.erowid.org and then smoke if you want to, knowing the consequences. Infact even if you arn't super keen, you should try it sometime in the future just so you are more informed about other peoples choices and widen your understanding.

Vock, "shut the f**k up" isn't an argument either by the way

Although I agree with you generally.

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 21 Jul 2004 02:50

I wouldn't want to start arguing about this, but...

1. I don't need luck on this: Even that skitsofrenia is a neural disease, it is caused by genetic reasons, and cannabis effects these genes. So if your lineage has marks of skitsofrenia it means that you have it in your genes and smoking pot may start it in you. Feel free to check that information yourself, it is true.
2. Comstalker, do you have any idea yourself what you are talking about..? I have no kids...
3. I'm not telling that children shouldn't be taught about drugs and alcohol -you guys just aren't the right persons to do it.

sPinko-Mania · Post by **sPinko-Mania** » 21 Jul 2004 04:05

I don't think there is any convincing evidence that cannabis use directly causes schizophrenia. From a report that came out here last year sometime they said it might increase your chances of having schizophrenic behaviour if you are already predisposed to having schizophrenia in the first place.

But honestly it is irrelevant, this shouldn't be a health issue, and that's why I never get into debates about medicinal marijuana. Do you see how big warning labels on cigarette packets are? It's ridiculous. Do we really need to dig out statistics on how bad drinking is for our countries? Red meat? Not eating enough vegetables or engaging in moderate exercise a couple of times a week? We live in a pretty damn educated time (believe it or not), and people know the risks of their own lifestyle most of the time - even if you don't ignorance is no excuse, we all have the means. The point is, it shouldn't be the governments place to coerce me not to engage in lifestyle choices which only impact on my own health. It's my body. The only problem with this argument is that most of us have public healthcare, so other people have to pay if we screw up our own bodies.

However, I think the rest of the world is similar, but take New Zealand. New Zealanders drink. Cars get wrapped around trees, wheel chair production booms, hospitals are full of alcohol related injuries, and New Zealand orders another round. If you lay out all the evidence for people, cirrhosis of the liver, wrecked marriages, ruined childhoods, beaten up partygoers, the lot; New Zealand will crack open another can and tell you that drugs are bad. That is why I don't buy that criticism.

The whole situation, including the fact that the government would actually incarcerate someone for toking up, would be just so laughable if it wasn't the sad reality that most of us live in.

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Jul 2004 05:38

So if your lineage has marks of skitsofrenia it means that you have it in your genes and smoking pot may start it in you.

I checked it... :
There are tons of proofs, that there are no persons who are not given the genetical base for shizophrenia. In fact, the risk of becoming shizophrenic is given by the middle value of receptors for nor-adrenaline and acetylcholine in every post-synaptic-membrane. It is a given fact, that the amount of thc in the blood only affects it's own receptors and those who are meant for cyclic-AMP and ADP/ATP. There are two canadian studies which proof that the tobacco consumed in connection to cannabis affects the function and amount of nor-adr.- and acetylcholine-receptors and NOT cannabis. Maybe you know, nicotine also heavily harms the production of acetylcholine because of the K+-Canals in the pre-synaptic membrane.
I also (to prevent some suggestions) have to say, that cannabis does not affect the production of nor-adrenaline, so there's no way it could cause depression or epilepsia.
The studies were both in 2001, check it.

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Jul 2004 05:45

and if we aren't able to teach children - I really also don't want to argue about that-, please don't use the term "drugs and alcohol".
There once has been a study (I think it was in belgia), that proofed, that the harm done by alcohol is far dramatic than what heroine/morphine/opium does. So, if we compare the damage common drugs do to your body, alcohol is the absolute worst (being beside to some mushrooms, the only cellular poison).

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Jul 2004 05:52

sPinko-Mania wrote:We live in a pretty damn educated time (believe it or not), and people know the risks of their own lifestyle most of the time

Dunno how far you are taught about different drugs, but here in germany, alcohol is the biggest national problem and there are few schools, that at least touch the topic of it being a drug. Last carnival, I've seen two kids (really kids, 6th grade, which means 12 years) with a 1.5 liter bottle of ouzo ! And that ain't no exception. Being 12-14 and buying 40-50% alcohol here is like shooting indigenas in chiapas.
The fact, that it's so common really makes me sick and far more sad than the crack-junks at the local train-station.

(sorry for reposting again and again, but I need an edit-button !)

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Jul 2004 06:01

yeah, I know, we need an edit-button, or a comastalker checking his mails several times

:

1. sorry if I've been somehow "agressive". Be sure there were several external reasons for this. Sometimes I'm quite "affectable" by sums of problems facing me. But that doesn't change the indirect content.

2. talking about common drugs, I for sure didn't include glue, but using this is like using lack-of-oxigene as a drug; it doesn't make one feel good, it makes you feel nothing. So, by this, it's not a drug in my way of defining one, since there are heavily differing reasons for taking it.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 21 Jul 2004 07:15

By hiding the TRUTH from your kids you are aiding them to become addicts.

Curiosity killed the cat. If your children know the facts then they can make a better educated guess before they slip into a group whose drug use doesn't stop at mere pot.

I know several individuals who's parents informed them of pot at the age of 3. It became part of their culture and lifestyle. They are no worse off for having the knowledge and even better armed against attacks from drug dealers roaming public schools. They know the game and the scams, before they ever touched the stuff.

Sheltering your children will only spark greater curiosity and build up resentment in the child for you not being truthful with them. I've seen this many time in the Bible Belt South, where parents flat out deny the existence of all things (considered to them) EVIL. In turn their children are the ones rebeling and end up pregnant or on some serious drugs as a result. Example: My whole biological family.

You will not learn a thing about life experiences from reading anti-drug propaganda. You will have to live and learn to fully understand and respect the lifestyles people choose.

Bashing and throwing out recycled marketing campaigns only makes you more ignorant to what is really happening in society.

About the gene link from pot. Please!!!! Stop right there. Misinformation never made anyone any wiser, other than knowing the information is false.

420FootBager · Post by **420FootBager** » 21 Jul 2004 08:36

Man you sound like a sound bite from the dumb reefer madness movie

how many scitzophrenic pot heads is there compared to the amount of pot heads in genral?? It's one in a million.....

It is by far the safest drug and I would try to stop my children from drinking long before stoping them from smoking pot...... Theres far less accidents due to pot, no chance of OD and less chance of spouting of at the mouth and getting your ass beat in a bar fight.

As for scizophrenia.... thats just bull shit the amount of marijuana smokers Is HUGE compared to the total amount of scizos out there and most of the scizos did not develop there condition from marijuana if any.... you gotta remember that most studys (for or against weed) are very scuwed......

And what about the postive medical effects?

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 21 Jul 2004 08:53

Whoa! I send my last post like 6 hours ago and look at the aswers! I read the first comstalkers post: "Medical term - Medical term - Medical term." Riiight...
Like I would be reading all that!!!

Ok, I'll stop arguing now.
Yeah, I am wrong - lets all start smoking weed and get stoned!! Then everything will be better than it is now!!!

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 21 Jul 2004 11:18

please don't exaggerate the whole topic, if it doesn't interest you, just don't post sth.
I'm not here to lyrically fight against you or any other one, it is just that I have the aim to clarify some false or not-up-to-date facts about cannabis.
No one in here says, that it is completely dangerous-free, it's just the fact that there's a sky-wide difference between pot and other drugs and most people prefer it because of this relationship.
I've just pointed out some chemical/neurobiological facts and studies to make sure you don't think I just puke around some facts and hope nobody will look for himself that they are true.

regarding the youth/teaching issue I just can repeat what flexthis already said (very well expressed btw).

This month there was a magazine (which is quite popular here and used to be quite serious). They related their really negative opinion based on a study (1.) and a statistic (2.)

1. 1½ month before the magazine came out, the project leader of the study stated out in public, that the studies CAN NOT be compared with a daily use of cannabis. They firstly didn't use any cannabinols (on rats) but a chemical which is a kind of opiate and secondly the dose was far too high (it would mean a daily consume of 4 joints with 8(1)g cannabis in each one (I've never seen someone filling a joint with that mass of pot)). The magazine stated, this study had tested cannabis with a consume-comparable dosis on rats and found out they were "mentally weakenend". Right after the magazine went public, the project leader again demented any comparability.

2. They said, that the majority of people going to a drug-aid-institution goes there because of smoking cannabis-products. In fact, if you completely ignore the 62% of people going there because of alcohol, this value would fit (for sure this statistic also ignores that no one visits such an institution because of being tabacco-addicted).

Those 2 "proofs" were the only "proofs/arguments" used in this 4 pages long article. There are thousands of people here in germany who think this magazine ("der spiegel" (means the mirror)) is serious and deals only with the truth. The result is, that thousands of parents tell their children that cannabis is harmful and destroys their brains. These children for sure will hear, that this ain't true and everything their parents told them about (for example) cocaine also suddenly becomes doubtful. And that is the problem, nothing less.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 22 Jul 2004 17:58

"The number of Canadians aged 15 or older who admit to getting high on marijuana or hashish nearly doubled in 13 years, with the highest rates among teenagers, figures released Wednesday by Statistics Canada say.
"
http://www.canada.com/national/features ... 0d3ce6ad1c

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 23 Jul 2004 03:41

interesting, there are a lot more people smoking weed in canda than here in germany (but here a lot more people take harder drugs; we have a whole scene (mostly gabber/hardcore fans) taking lsd and ecstasy).

Almost half (47 per cent) of those who had used cannabis in the previous year had done so less than once a month. About 10 per cent reported they had used it on a weekly basis, and another 10 per cent reported smoking up daily.

I'd like to now what the remaining 33% did, as "less than once a month" generally includes any other possibilities

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 23 Jul 2004 03:45

why are the comments below this article about "is canada becoming too anti-american ?".
Did I miss something ?

innersmile · Post by **innersmile** » 23 Jul 2004 04:23

Don't legalize weed. Dicrimanalize it. If it's legal the whole culture will be lost and millions of fuck heads will be sparking up. I like it on the Down Low, just like Kells

Peace

comastalker · Post by **comastalker** » 23 Jul 2004 05:40

I think the netherlands coffeeshop system works well. There's no need to legalize it.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 25 Jul 2004 22:36

Coke, heroin, LSD, pot....legalize em all (except Crystal Meth,it's manufacture is an explosive chemical hazard.)

Then think of the worst possible case, or scenarios that would accompany the legalization of most drugs.

The worst case anybody could think up does not match the dollar and societal costs we pay now.

But pot wont be legalized, for one reason alone.....because there is a big, fat, prison guard UNION that must keep employment for it's many members. If a million potheads have to get buttfucked in jail to keep those union dues rolling in, so be it.

-n

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 25 Jul 2004 22:47

Are you serious?

Do you honestly believe that the reason dope is illegal is so that people can be arrested and put in jail to create and sustain jobs?

You think the reason for dope being illegal is a left wing union conspiracy?

I don't want to offend you, but that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

As I understand it, prisons in America are over filled and under staffed. If the prison workers union is fucking powerful - why doesn't it convince the government to employ more workers or somehow reduce crime so that the working conditions are better?

I can't believe I even bothered to respond

If there is anyone on this forum who should do less drugs, it's you Nathan Oates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paranoid would be an understatement.