Double Swirl (Ripstein)

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Double Swirl (Ripstein)

Post by joplick » 27 Aug 2004 13:04

CLIP>SAME BACK (SWIRL)[DEX]>SAME BACK (SWIRL)[DEX]>SAME CLIP [XBD][DEL]

i have been trying to hit ripsteins recently and had a question. after i try a few, i get an average feeling kind of pain on my inner knee of my dexing leg... is this normal? if so how can i build the muscle up in my knee so i dont feel this pain anymore? thanks for the future input.
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Post by AIvanyo » 27 Aug 2004 15:28

don't do as much ripsteins, the motion from that can really hurt your knee. Just be carefull doing them.
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Post by alex » 27 Aug 2004 16:04

yea, what Andrew said. I'm not sure about how to hit the trick, but I specifically remember the outsider himself telling me how he has to cut back on the ripsteins because they can destroy your knees. So yea, be careful with em.
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Post by mc » 27 Aug 2004 16:52

the trick with ripsteins is to not try too hard. you don't have to go super fast and hurt your knee, you just have to get the first dex on the way up. relax your ankle a little bit. then, when you set, try to keep the first dex very small, and point your toe down just a little bit as you set; it will allow the bag to roll off your foot as you're starting the first dex. don't set very high, and just do the second swirl on the way down. keep it controlled, keep relaxed. any more questions? I've had ripstein for a few years now, so I've got some thoughts on it.
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Post by joplick » 28 Aug 2004 10:34

thanx for the tips. i had no idea it was such a knee killer! anyways, i do only do 1 or two a day, ive ruined my knees before and its not fun. ive got the control down, just a few more tries and i should have it. im so excited! ripstein is my favorite move. thanks again.
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Post by Muffinman » 23 Feb 2006 08:52

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: Ripstein Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hey guys, I looked around in this section, but I didn't find any topics with tips for hitting ripstein, so I thought I'd make one! A lot of people have been hitting this move lately and I've been trying to hit it for a long time! Once in a while, I would get lucky and do a swirl set, but I'd be too surprised to hit anything out of it! Is the swirl set swirl method the best for learning ripsteins?

My swirls are pretty consistent and I can hit them almost all the time...I've also tried the set-and-double swirl-as-fast-as-you-can method, but that doesn't seem to be working either. Any tips for learning this move would be greatly appreciated! Thanks a lot!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:02 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
1st reply:

do you have the type of swirl set where you start dexing as the bag sort of rolls off the front of your toes? If you dont, thats what you need. I recommend learning swirling set swirl. I recommend doing dexercise during which you emphasize a quick andprecise first dex with a second, rounder dex. DO a lot of consecutive swirl dexes without the bag, over and over again until it burns. Then stop and rest. Your swirls need to be fast.

Most importantly, learn that roll-off set where your set only rises between 10 and 20 inches and you start dexing nearly simultaneously with setting the bag off your foot. I think the bag should be delayed as close to the toes-area of the clipper box as possible. this minimizes the amount of leg that has to get behind the bag before it (the dexing leg) can get over and in front of the bag.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah I also noticed that "set-and-double swirl-as-fast-as-you-can" method isn't working.
But swirling set seems to be harder with my strong swirls...confusing!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I posted this in another topic recently. I kind of missed this topic, but its clearly relevant.

One thing first, though. I wanted to respond to Senor Grommet's advice.

Senor Grommet said
Quote:
I think the bag should be delayed as close to the toes-area of the clipper box as possible. this minimizes the amount of leg that has to get behind the bag before it (the dexing leg) can get over and in front of the bag.

I think this is poor advice. Well, you can stall the bag where-ever you like on your foot, but you should be trying to get as much of your foot and ankle behind and over and in front of the bag as possible, not as little of your foot/ankle as possible.

You should try to make all your dexes nice and deep on all your moves. To deliberately do thin dexes to make a move easier, is, well, lame.

Anyway, my little dissertation on ripsteins:
Quote:
For the last year or so I've been watching everybodys' Ripsteins especially closely. I happen to consider my own standards of what is clean and what is not a little higher than the average, especially with regards to swirling dexes. I've seen lots of Thin and The ripsteins, more often than I've seen clean. I could usually tell, but it was sometimes difficult or complicated to put into words when a ripstein was clean or the. Complicating the matter, as always, is the problem with camera angels. Ripstein as seen from the side can be particularly hard to judge, since its hard to determine depth when looking at them from the side (depth as in how high up on the foot/ankle is the bag while the foot circles it). I finally began to see clearly certain indicators that seemed to be very closely corelated with swirl/ripstein cleanliness:
In my opinion, the best indicator of cleanness, and the ideal way that ripsteins should be done in order to be clean, is to keep your foot parallel to the ground while circling the bag, just as it is parallel to the ground when you do a clipper stall. When doing a swirl or double swirl this way, the bag is obviously above the foot when you start the move (one could hardly say that the bag is not clearly above the foot when doing a clipper stall). The bag should then pass in front of the laces of the shoe or the ankle (the higher-up on the leg the better, obviously, so ankle is better than upper laces, upper laces are better than lower laces, and lower laces are better than toes), pass underneath the outside surface of the foot, pass behind the heel or ankle, and then again above the inside surface (and if its a double swirl rather than a single then of course the bag must go again in front of the laces, under the outside, behind the heel, and once more over the inside).
The most common variation away from ideal form that I have observed is for someone to turn their ankle when doing the dex such that their foot is perpendicular to the ground at some point in the dex (generally at peak of the dex) and their sole is facing upwards and thus parallel to the ground. A swirl or double is not necessarily the at that point, but one is wandering into more dangerous territory. The reason is because when you turn your sole up at the peak of the dex, you might be turning your foot inward towards your body, in essence shortening the length of your leg. Turn your foot inward towards the body enough and the bag is now further away from your body than your foot is; the dex can't be clean at that point.

I'll take this opportunity to interject a little more here than I initially said.
Another problem with turning the sole upward is that when you do this your lower leg also tends to be perpendicular relative to the floor. I think your lower leg should stay as parallel to the floor as possible during these dexes. This is also a little tough to explain simply. I'll try: swirl dexes have an orientation horizontal to the ground just like mirage/around-the-world dexes have an orientation perpendicular to the ground. When a miraging/atw dex goes horizontal, you're probably "the-ing" the dex, and similarly, if, during a swirling dex, your lower leg goes from a horizontal to a vertical orientation, you're more likely to be the-ing that dex. At the very least its thinner, not as deep.
Last try at simple language: if your leg should be over the bag as much as ankle-deep, but instead is next to the bag and only a portion of your foot is over the bag, well, thats just not as clean as if yoru ankle were over the bag.
Anyway, now back to our relevant quote...
Quote:

At this point (if you've turned your sole upwards) the difference between "clean" and "the" usually comes down to which way your toe is pointing.
If the toe of the swirling foot is pointed in the direction of the dex (toe and heel of the foot are aligned in the direction of travel of the dexing foot), your ripstein is probably "the". At the peak of the dex, your sole pointing upward and your toe pointing forward, your foot is no longer under, over, in front of, or beneath the bag. Its next to the bag. Near the bag, but not crossing the plane of travel of the bag. The.

Another little interjection...
Verticle lower leg, toe pointed forward, means that your foot passes by the bag, instead of passing over the bag. Passing your foot by the bag instead of over the bag = THE.
Quote:

If you're pointing your toe out, away from your body and perpendicular to the direction of travel of the dex, there is a much better likelihood that the dex is still clean. At the peak of your dex the bag is still underneath your foot (how much of your foot can vary: is the bag closer to your toe or to your ankle?), just after the peak its still below the bag. Your heel may be closer to your body than the bag, but your toe at least is still farther from you than the bag is, thus your foot is still crossing the plane of travel of the bag.
Hmm, how to sum this all up? If your foot remains parallel to the ground (sole perpendicular to the floor) during a swirling dex, the dex is usually either entirely 'clean' or entirely 'the'. If your turn your sole up and your toes forward, your swirl dex is almost certainly 'the' at the peak of the dex. If you turn your sole up and point your toe out, your dex is likely okay but thin to some degree, depending on how close the bag is to your toe versus your ankle (very close to the ankle = so slightly thin as to barely be worth mentioning; very close to the toes = so thin as to barely be worth arguing that its "thin but not really the").

One of the benefits of looking for these particular markers is that it makes it easier to estimate the cleanness of swirl/ripstein when your angle of view is particularly unfavorable.


edit: I guess this isn't really advice on how to do a ripstein. Its more like advice on how not to do a ripstein. Well, if you're going to learn the trick, you might as well do them clean. Who actually wants to 'the' their tricks?
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Post by janis » 09 May 2007 05:42

fairy ripstein is killing my left calf, so I want to do some regular ripsteins for a while. I have trouble setting for this trick, what are some good moves/drills for swirl set?

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Post by F[uns]tylin' Eclectic » 23 Jul 2011 23:28

When you do swirling sets, I think of it almost as a pixie set from clipper... Do your clipper, Bend down on your support leg a bit, then start to unwind your bent leg and come up onto your toes to set the swirl, do another swirl while still on your toes, and start to come back to a normal footing as you're about to catch the final swirl. Really experiment with this one. This trick totally takes practice and patience. Ripstein is an easy 4 ADD for me now, and I remember when first learning this one, I kept "the"ing the crap out of it, so don't worry about getting it clean right away. As long as you have the right timing and the right motion for this, your muscles will learn how to hit this properly eventually. I've found that this one takes only a little bit of energy. So if you find yourself using a lot of energy, chill, you're probably trying way too hard and you could throw your knee out that way. Small dexes too.

Get very familiar with the following tricks:


:arrow: Swirl (Seriously, you need to get SO GOOD at these), if you have a "sorta ok" swirl, you probably shouldn't try Ripstein.
:arrow: Ss Symp Swirl

Before(SO "THE"...)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0szpU87_tC4[/youtube]

After(This isn't that recent... Best footage of it that I have though)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGFfe6Uz ... ideo_title[/youtube]

Hope this sheds some light on the subject.
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Re: Double Swirl (Ripstein)

Post by Muffinman » 05 Mar 2013 15:55

I'm looking to learn this in the near future and your tips are stellar, Nick. Thanks!

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Re: Double Swirl (Ripstein)

Post by AtotheK » 30 Jul 2013 14:33

I have been working on my swirling sets (and ripstein as a result) quite a bit recently and I have some thoughts now that I have made some progress.

1) The majority of the upward motion for the set comes from the support leg. I do very little with the foot setting the bag, and in fact, try to keep it as flat and level as possible as the bag is coming off the foot. If you can do blazing sets you probably know what I mean.
2) As is the case with all tricks there should be very little spin on the bag. In this way to me it is like every other set (pixie, fairy, etc.) where the setting leg is also the one immediately performing the dex, I find myself concentrating on getting the bag cleanly off my foot so that there is almost no spin. The little bit of setting motion I do with my setting leg is to help cleanly release the bag. As a side note, I often do get a lot of spin and sometimes this results in a very high set, but I do not have the control I would like. I have seen the advice saying to point the toe downward as the bag is coming off the foot, but for me this does not help, and often causes the bag to not travel straight up and down. Maybe as I continue to improve this can be added back in. For right now I am thinking of my foot as a platform.
3) Once the bag is off my foot I am looking for a clean but snappy dex. Mostly I am just trying to put my ankle over the bag, the downward part of the first swirl is just an extension of the movement plus gravity. The tendency for me here is to raise my knee too much, but this is bad and causes my dexing foot to move too far under my pelvis (toward my support leg) and makes me miss the dex. My foot goes high enough, but the bag is no longer under my ankle or foot. While doing this I am trying to keep my ankle bent the same amount it was when the bag was released, as I feel this helps make the dex snappier. So the important parts for me are crisp dex with the knee down and stationary with a rigid ankle.

Those points are for swirling sets in general, the rest are specific to ripstein.
4) For the second dex I want it to feel just like a downtime swirl (not symple style). So, this motion needs to be dialed up, if it is not practice them (consecutives really helped me). Try to have that same feel, but also work on the second dex being a seamless continuation of the first dex.
5) The first dex is uptime the second is downtime. If you can control the bag and complete the uptime dex and the bag goes waist high or higher you will likely have to slow down. That is great, focus on carving out deep, clean dexterities with a very good circular motion. For me the set for ripstein is usually a bit lower than when I am going for other swirling set tricks. Once you can control the bag coming off your foot and immediately start the dex consistently you will find the dexes don't feel that fast (like how DATW feels more technique-based) once your form improves.

I will post more tips if I find anything as I continue to work on this.

Hope that helps!

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