Regarding Glucosmine, this study was released today in the British Medical Journal;
http://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c4675.abstract
It's a meta analysis of a number of studies into the effectiveness of glucosamine, both in conjunction with chondroitin and without. In total it studied 10 studies covering 3803 patients and made the following conclusion;
"Our findings indicate that glucosamine, chondroitin, and their combination do not result in a relevant reduction of joint pain nor affect joint space narrowing compared with placebo."
Health Supplements
uh....yea
Jeremy, I appreciate your dedication to doing the right thing but let's not, in being helpful, be just as misleading as big gov and big pharm....
early on you stated that supps cause cancer, what you seemed to want to say was that they do not prevent cancer (or do not reduce the development/progression of cancer). Causing cancer is a pretty bold statement. what if i don't have cancer?
now - this particular study, was aimed at a very controlled group of subjects.
Maybe weed will work for the ones glucosamine and chondroitin failed to help?
I want to believe what you are saying because i don't think we need to be living in a world of synthesized foods and pill boxes, eat an apple for Christ's sake. BUT i am at a point where i only half believe what you are saying because you make some pretty passionate accusations that frankly have not added up.
my $.02
Jeremy, I appreciate your dedication to doing the right thing but let's not, in being helpful, be just as misleading as big gov and big pharm....
early on you stated that supps cause cancer, what you seemed to want to say was that they do not prevent cancer (or do not reduce the development/progression of cancer). Causing cancer is a pretty bold statement. what if i don't have cancer?
now - this particular study, was aimed at a very controlled group of subjects.
i agree with you, based upon the research, that studies are showing little or no efficacy in these substances (yet there are conflicting results across time and sponsor and individuals). Studies, from what i can tell, are mainly focused on treating arthritis or degenerative joint diseases (which these naturally occurring substances have been mainly focused on). they may do nothing for many, yet may in fact be helpful to some. Maybe they are testing it on the wrong populations? Maybe not enough studies have been done? Maybe it only works for very specific, .05% of the population?"Eligibility criteria for selecting studies -
Large scale randomised controlled trials in more than 200 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee or hip that compared glucosamine, chondroitin, or their combination with placebo or head to head. "
Maybe weed will work for the ones glucosamine and chondroitin failed to help?
I want to believe what you are saying because i don't think we need to be living in a world of synthesized foods and pill boxes, eat an apple for Christ's sake. BUT i am at a point where i only half believe what you are saying because you make some pretty passionate accusations that frankly have not added up.
my $.02
I'm sorry but I don't understand what your point is regarding glucosamine.
You constructing scenarios in which the study could be correct but glucosamine could still work is pretty meaningless if you don't provide any evidence to support your claim.
As I stated before, my position on these things is that I'm not going to spend my money on things where I can't be given good evidence that they actually work. If you want to spend your money on something based on the speculation that the studies in to it weren't studying the right people, it's your money - go ahead. To me that seems foolish.
Of course the reason I've been endeavouring to post the actual studies is so that you can see the evidence for yourself, rather than taking my word for it.
Regarding cancer, I definitely meant what I said. There are numerous studies suggesting a link between vitamin E supplements and cancer, and a google scholar search will bring those up, or I can post some. I didn't post any because I thought that point had been accepted. Michael Specter hasn't yet added the footnotes to his website, so I can't find the study of 168,000 people that suggested a link between multivitamin supplements and cancer. However a google search for "multivitamins gives you cancer" brings up a number of grey literature sources such as news reports and blogs that back this claim up. Those aren't particularly reliable sources of information, so I haven't posted any of them, but they're certainly better than nothing, so here are some;
http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010 ... ou-cancer/
http://www.ozcarguide.com/health/health ... cts-cancer
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/bl ... azard.html
It seems that in the last few months or so a new study has come out that found that women taking multivitamins over a ten year period had an increased rate of breast cancer, so that returned most of the results, however the bottom link appears to be talking about the same, or a similar study to Michael Specter's book.
Finally I urge you not to take anybody's word as authority, including mine. Look at the evidence for yourself.
You constructing scenarios in which the study could be correct but glucosamine could still work is pretty meaningless if you don't provide any evidence to support your claim.
As I stated before, my position on these things is that I'm not going to spend my money on things where I can't be given good evidence that they actually work. If you want to spend your money on something based on the speculation that the studies in to it weren't studying the right people, it's your money - go ahead. To me that seems foolish.
Of course the reason I've been endeavouring to post the actual studies is so that you can see the evidence for yourself, rather than taking my word for it.
Regarding cancer, I definitely meant what I said. There are numerous studies suggesting a link between vitamin E supplements and cancer, and a google scholar search will bring those up, or I can post some. I didn't post any because I thought that point had been accepted. Michael Specter hasn't yet added the footnotes to his website, so I can't find the study of 168,000 people that suggested a link between multivitamin supplements and cancer. However a google search for "multivitamins gives you cancer" brings up a number of grey literature sources such as news reports and blogs that back this claim up. Those aren't particularly reliable sources of information, so I haven't posted any of them, but they're certainly better than nothing, so here are some;
http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2010 ... ou-cancer/
http://www.ozcarguide.com/health/health ... cts-cancer
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/bl ... azard.html
It seems that in the last few months or so a new study has come out that found that women taking multivitamins over a ten year period had an increased rate of breast cancer, so that returned most of the results, however the bottom link appears to be talking about the same, or a similar study to Michael Specter's book.
Finally I urge you not to take anybody's word as authority, including mine. Look at the evidence for yourself.
Also you may want to read this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteoarthritis
And perhaps you can explain what claims there are about glucosamine and people without osteoarthritis?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteoarthritis
And perhaps you can explain what claims there are about glucosamine and people without osteoarthritis?
Re: Health Supplements
It has proved by science that taking supplement is always helpful for keeping oneself fit and healthy. I did research and finally take Green drink. I feel active and energetic for the whole day. The difficulty is to choose good supplement. Don't use any product by just seeing it's label. Choose wisely.
Edited to remove spammy link.
Edited to remove spammy link.
Re: Health Supplements
Proved by science? Let's see that science then. It seems particularly clear that for people with balanced diets and no diagnosed medical illness, that the vast majority of supplements do nothing. These "Green Powder" scams are numerous and I'm yet to see any actual science supporting them. Why not just make sure you eat some vegetables on a daily basis, which cost a few dollars a kilo, instead of highly processed dubious substance that costs around $100 a kilo? There's a wealth of science showing that eating vegetables is healthy, and I'd add probably much tastier and more interesting.
Re: Health Supplements
Soylent Green is less than $100/kilo, and its delicious and makes me feel healthy too. I'm not sure what it's made of, but it's probably veggies or something.Jeremy wrote:. These "Green Powder" scams are numerous and I'm yet to see any actual science supporting them. Why not just make sure you eat some vegetables on a daily basis, which cost a few dollars a kilo, instead of highly processed dubious substance that costs around $100 a kilo?
Has anybody experimented with using Asea or other redox-signalling waters to make green powder smoothies? I normally just use water when making my Soylent Green shakes, but maybe they'd be even more potent if I made them with Asea instead of just normal water. Thoughts?
Re: Health Supplements
I do that all the time ken. But I just throw severed body parts in to the blender with my asea. They are much cheaper cause you can usually just find them on the street or in ally ways.
Drew Martin
Re: Health Supplements
Well yeah, that's easy for you. But try living outside of the NYC/NJ area, and you'll see they're not as easy to come by.