Americans: Did you vote?

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Did you vote?

Yes: Democrat
4
67%
Yes: Republican
0
No votes
Yes: 3rd party
2
33%
No: Don't think my vote matters
0
No votes
No: Don't want to vote for either
0
No votes
No: Too young
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 6

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Americans: Did you vote?

Post by C-Fan » 06 Nov 2012 10:20

Hi Modified. For American users, did you vote in the 2012 Presidential election? Curious to see how many of us did or did not, as well as for whom.

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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by rjadamson » 06 Nov 2012 17:39

I did.

Washington's electoral college votes are going to Obama for sure so I voted third party. I think (sadly) that the political ideas that the public finds acceptable are largely determined by what they see in front of them on a daily basis. So if my popular vote in this election can create some momentum toward getting a third party some fundraising money in future general elections I think that could pave the way for a more inspiring political atmosphere.

Today at work I listened to predominantly young voters call in on NPR explaining that they weren't voting because they didn't believe in "the system." I also have lots of friends in the apathy camp. I can understand being jaded by the endless amount of conflicting information to be found in politics, but it baffles me that people don't participate because the two main guys aren't money-printing magicians.

Edit: Obama won, and Washington legalized both recreational marijuana and same-sex marriage.

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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by crazydwarf » 06 Nov 2012 23:00

Washington did awesome this election!
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Outsider » 07 Nov 2012 06:57

Yes I voted, but...

Ken, there should be a choice in this pole to indicate "Yes I voted but I 'm not saying for who". Thats always kind of been one of the key features of elections in a free country --- you get to vote in a little private booth and you don't have to say which choice you made.

While in my little private booth, by the way, I decided to vote for the red-head. :wink:
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Derek » 07 Nov 2012 08:06

Reilley: How is your guys' Amendment(or is it?) set up?(For weed) I know How Colorado's works, but from what I glimpsed at Washington's, seems kinda taxed out the ASS.
I voted for Obama, though I was tempted to vote for Ronald McDonald.(I live in Cali, we blue) My main concern was for the Props, which aren't lookin' so hot. :?
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Jeremy » 07 Nov 2012 14:22

An option of "I don't live in America" would be nice too, so that those of us interested in the poll result don't have to click "view results" every time. Yes, I'm very lazy.

Edit; Given all it takes for weed to be legalised in the US is somebody to put forward a proposition that the majority of voters support, will the conspiracy theorists now concede that weed isn't/wasn't illegal due to the interests of big capitalist entities? Or is that a way of framing the issue to suggest that the conspiracy theorists are rational while everybody else are brainwashed and vote how they're told to?

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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Outsider » 07 Nov 2012 15:27

Jeremy wrote:Edit; Given all it takes for weed to be legalised in the US is somebody to put forward a proposition that the majority of voters support, will the conspiracy theorists now concede that weed isn't/wasn't illegal due to the interests of big capitalist entities? Or is that a way of framing the issue to suggest that the conspiracy theorists are rational while everybody else are brainwashed and vote how they're told to?
Not an expert on American law, either on drugs or on voting, but I think you've over-simplified this issue, Jeremy.
If I'm not mis-stating this myself, a given State in the United States can write criminal law within it's own borders, but can still be subject to Federal criminal law as well --- the federal government can write laws that are effective within all states because the federal government has the authority to regulate "interstate commerce" or some-such...

So, California or Colorado or Washington can decriminalize or legalize a drug within that state, HOWEVER, one can still be arrested and prosecuted by a federal law-enforcement agency and sentenced by a federal judge --- the State of Washington police might no longer arrest for some drugs, and the State of Washington might no longer try to fine or imprison you for some drugs, but the DEA or FBI might still arrest in that state and bring you to trial in federal court IN WASHINGTON STATE... (I think that the justification that the federal government uses for writing drug laws is that drugs are fungible {can easily be used as an exchange medium like cash} and get traded across state lines, so drugs get regulated by federal law under the federal government's power to regular interstate commerce...)

Further, not all states in the United States allow voting on a proposition in the same way. I don't know these details well, but an individual cannot just propose a proposition to be voted into or out-of state law in all states --- states all make-up their own laws about how laws are passed in those states... State Goverment, Federal Government... it all gets me confused... but just because a proposition can get on the ballot easily in Washington State or California or Colorado does NOT mean that these propositions can get on the ballot in New York or Texas or Virginia or Pennsylvania. I'm pretty sure that there is NO way to propose and vote on a proposition for federal law -- that is, when it comes to federal law, its pretty much all in the hands of the Congress.
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by rjadamson » 07 Nov 2012 17:43

Derek wrote:Reilley: How is your guys' Amendment(or is it?) set up?(For weed) I know How Colorado's works, but from what I glimpsed at Washington's, seems kinda taxed out the ASS.
I voted for Obama, though I was tempted to vote for Ronald McDonald.(I live in Cali, we blue) My main concern was for the Props, which aren't lookin' so hot. :?
Well, first of all it goes into effect December 6, but within the first few seconds of it being announced that it was likely passing people started lighting up.

Marijuana is now very much like alcohol. Citizens can carry (I heard the term "own" used by someone today, but that seems silly and much less enforceable) up to 1 ounce of marijuana , and cannot consume it in public. A legal consumption limit is established in regards to driving -- you can get a DUI for being being pulled over while over the limit. This was honestly the most controversial aspect of the measure that left many otherwise in favor of legalization on the fence. I've heard the legal THC blood content limit is quite low (I don't have the number offhand), and if you happen to get pulled over I think it's feasible that you could get charged with a DUI for smoking a joint several days earlier. Authorities have the right to do blood tests on the spot, and many view this (perhaps hypocritically considering breath tests are allowed) as a civil rights infringement.

Businesses still have every right to drug test employees and terminate them if they feel marijuana usage is hypothetically detrimental to their work performance. Licenses will be required to grow or distribute marijuana, and as Jon correctly stated federal law prohibiting marijuana growth and usage would supersede state law if federal authorities decided to get involved.

An acquaintance of mine is part of the U.S. Coast Guard, and even though medical marijuana was legal in Washington before the recent measure passed they would bust people in possession of marijuana on their boats. He laments that the captains can essentially choose whether or not to bust people in these situations where state law is contrary to federal law. So it really comes down to whether or not the guy in charge of the unit is a conservative prick or not.

Despite the fact Obama has historically sanctioned some crackdowns on medical marijuana growth I heard several constitutional lawyers on the radio today claiming that the DEA will approach this measure with a lot of discretion -- its very nature is quite regulated, the measure itself passing is a sign that marijuana is becoming less taboo, and frankly it's probably going to add quite a lot of needed state revenue.

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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Pasquar » 14 Nov 2012 15:42

I voted for the Green Party. I live in Ohio. I live life on the edge. :P

In reality though, this was my third time voting for a Presidential candidate and for many reasons I am over te two=party system and refused to support it with my vote.
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Outsider » 14 Nov 2012 19:28

for many reasons I am over te two=party system and refused to support it with my vote.
Yeah, I used to think that too --- that's how I was feeling in 2000 when I, and MANY others, voted third-party. Back then, the most popular third-party candidate was Ralph Nader. In hind-sight, many people felt that votes cast for Nader were votes TAKEN-AWAY-FROM Al Gore. In other words, in that very very close race, third-party votes may have been the reason that Bush narrowly "beat" Al Gore.

What I'm saying is that: in October 2000, I thought "I'm against the two-party system, and all those guys are the same anyway -- Bush and Gore, who cares..." but in hind-sight, I regret the 8 YEARS of Bush Jr., and think that the last decade could have been much different if so many thousands like me had NOT voted third-party...

Now, I might still not love the two-party system, and I might still think that there isn't ENOUGH difference between the candidates of those two parties, but I'm now much more inclined to vote for the lesser evil OF THE CANDIDATE THAT AT LEAST STANDS A GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING, rather than voting for the spoiler of that lesser evil (which, effectively, was like voting for the GREATER EVIL).
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by rjadamson » 15 Nov 2012 08:17

Outsider wrote:What I'm saying is that: in October 2000, I thought "I'm against the two-party system, and all those guys are the same anyway -- Bush and Gore, who cares..." but in hind-sight, I regret the 8 YEARS of Bush Jr., and think that the last decade could have been much different if so many thousands like me had NOT voted third-party...

Now, I might still not love the two-party system, and I might still think that there isn't ENOUGH difference between the candidates of those two parties, but I'm now much more inclined to vote for the lesser evil OF THE CANDIDATE THAT AT LEAST STANDS A GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING, rather than voting for the spoiler of that lesser evil (which, effectively, was like voting for the GREATER EVIL).
I think this logic can apply to swing states, but the majority of states are reliably are going to vote one way or the other. If you live in Oklahoma your individual vote really is not going to influence the inevitable Republican landslide in the electoral college. It is in these states where people should most be voting for a third party presidential candidate.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I voted third party just to give the Libertarian Party some of the popular vote. With enough of the popular vote a third party will receive federal campaign aid, and that initial exposure would likely mean a spot on the debate stage! That could be huge!

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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Outsider » 15 Nov 2012 10:17

Reilley, I agree with you. In 2000, I was living in Colorado, which at that time was said to be relatively uncontested -- not a "swing state", so, my vote at that time was kind-of-sort-of irrelevant to the outcome, and could have, in theory, benefitted the third party...

Pasquar, on the other hand, lives in Ohio, which has been a pretty important place in the last few presidential elections.

Even in the 2000 election, the issue of the popular vote vs. the electoral college might have been given even more consideration if the magnitude of the disparity were larger -- that is, if the size of the disparity in the popular vote was tens of thousands of votes larger that it was...
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by Pasquar » 15 Nov 2012 14:34

Jon, I do see the "lesser of two evils" argument, particularly in Ohio, which was the official call for Obama this election, but I find it a disservice to myself if I take it..

I work for a non-profit political organization that did a LOT of work with voter reg, education, and GOTV (get out the vote). It's a joint c(3)/c(4) collaborative that is progressive org that definitely was geared toward Obama. Given that my work was going to support a candidate I didn't fully endorse, I felt more than ever that my vote is mine alone and should not be swayed to join a sea of Democrats with that "lesser of two evils" argument.

Hindsight's 20/20 and Obama won, but if he didn't, Jill Stein's 17k votes wouldn't have made a difference.

In 2000, in hindsight, the argument can be made that the Green Party votes that would have gone to Gore would have swung the election, but personally, the fact that Gore won the popular vote and lost the electoral highlights one of the many systemic flaws in our policy. Electoral College is BULLSHIT and there's no real reason we should be going by that system.

It's these sort of systemic flaws that we will never see -changed because they reinforce the system as it's structured.

Another systemic flaw: how NONE of the 4 eligible third-party candidates were allowed to participate in the Presidential debates and the questions that were used in each debate. Jill Stein and Cheri Honkla got arrested outside the second Presidential debate when trying to enter. That's how the system responds to viable third-party candidates trying to have a seat at the debates: they get arrested.
rjadamson wrote: With enough of the popular vote a third party will receive federal campaign aid
As a libertarian, shouldn't you be against federal aid of any kind?
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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by rjadamson » 16 Nov 2012 00:13

Pasquar wrote:As a libertarian, shouldn't you be against federal aid of any kind?
I guess the best way to quickly answer this is by saying yes, and by adding that my ideal country has far more of a social safety net for citizens than any libertarian would want. But I think the clean scrub on budget items like the military the Gary Johnsons of politics emphasize would best balance the budget in the short term, and leave room for someone like Jill Stein to then legislate improved versions of the social welfare program we have today.

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Re: Americans: Did you vote?

Post by C-Fan » 16 Nov 2012 23:07

Outsider wrote:
for many reasons I am over te two=party system and refused to support it with my vote.
Yeah, I used to think that too --- that's how I was feeling in 2000 when I, and MANY others, voted third-party. Back then, the most popular third-party candidate was Ralph Nader. In hind-sight, many people felt that votes cast for Nader were votes TAKEN-AWAY-FROM Al Gore. In other words, in that very very close race, third-party votes may have been the reason that Bush narrowly "beat" Al Gore.

What I'm saying is that: in October 2000, I thought "I'm against the two-party system, and all those guys are the same anyway -- Bush and Gore, who cares..." but in hind-sight, I regret the 8 YEARS of Bush Jr., and think that the last decade could have been much different if so many thousands like me had NOT voted third-party...

Now, I might still not love the two-party system, and I might still think that there isn't ENOUGH difference between the candidates of those two parties, but I'm now much more inclined to vote for the lesser evil OF THE CANDIDATE THAT AT LEAST STANDS A GOOD CHANCE OF WINNING, rather than voting for the spoiler of that lesser evil (which, effectively, was like voting for the GREATER EVIL).
Couldn't have said it better myself. +1.

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