Gay Marriage

[Splint]

Come on!!! Every self respecting gay man has a GAYDAR.

No joke.
Is it true... who knows, but I've had many a gay friend who claimed theirs was perfect.


About the Ottowa thing... I had a feeling about that when I posted and I even asked someone before making an ass of myself. That'll teach me to cheat off the girl who didn't study for the test.

[carl winslow]

a little off topic but i didnt want to start a new thread for this
why do most gay men talk with a lisp?

[Splint]

a little off topic but i didnt want to start a new thread for this
why do most gay men talk with a lisp?

MOST gay men don't.
It's a common misconception. Hollywood shows them that way for effect and a number of gay men speak with a feminine tone in their voice which is often taken as a lisp, but it's not.

I'm glad a lot of things are coming up in this thread. It gives people the chance to get questions answered and a lot erroneous information about the gay and lesbian community can get cleared up.

[qphox]

I don't know about that one Carl. I think it's more of a situation where the only ones you notice talk with a lisp...and the reason you notice them is because they talk with a lisp. Great how that works, eh?

And I'm not saying you as in you as an individual. I mean people in general. As for the history of the stereotype, or why any gay men talk with a lisp, I don't know.


Furthermore, I've got a big problem with people that say, "I've got no problem with gay guys unless they hit on me."

Alright, fair enough. But seriously, is it so hard to say, "Sorry, I'm not interested." or "I'm not gay." or "Both."

Moreover, is it any different from a situation like this: You're at a bar, and a very "homely" girl begins to hit it up with you. Do you not have a problem with ugly girls until they hit on you either?

Maybe I'm just ignorant to what's beneath the surface of this issue...something far more complex, no doubt.

[the shagster]

LMAO ! ! ! !

SPLINT dude, we have to chat. are you gay yourself or what? cuz man you just answered carls questions, both, totally almost word for word. i mean about the gaydar thing and that most gay guys dont have a lisp. either you were brought up by gays or maybe just know alot of them congrats man. me need more people like you who can teach others that gay people arent like the devil or something.

[Splint]

SPLINT dude, we have to chat. are you gay yourself or what? ... either you were brought up by gays or maybe just know alot of them congrats man.

It would be the latter.
When I was really young my dad's business partner was gay (well I'm sure he still is, but they're not in business toegether anymore).

I'm 29 now and I consider my self to have grown up in the Gay 90's. Before the early 90's there didn't seem to be very much focus on Gay and Lesbian people. It was not considered socially acceptable to see public displays of affection form gay or lesbian men and women.
Sadly AIDS brought gay men to the forefront of hatred and depravity. At the same time however, it added a very real and human element to being gay. For those of you who remember, Tom Hanks winning the Oscar for his role in Philadelphia didn't hurt either.

Then somewhere around 91 or 92 social acceptance began to change AND more and more people caught on to the idea of Bisexuality. For a long time it was a fad to be Bisexual (especially in the younger crowds).
A lot of girls were being more "touchy feely" with eachother in public and no one really thought much of it if they new the people to be "straight"... Little did they know.
And of course there was the Gay Pride March on Washington DC back in '92 (or maybe it was '93). Well over a million Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender people marched on Washington and made a statement that they were just as much a part of the american culture as baseball and moms apple pie.
Probably the most influential people for me were my highschool girlfriend and her Moms. (note the plural) They are still great friends of mine and the Moms have been together longer than most "married" people.
Throught them I met and began to hang out with all sorts of people (both gay and straight) who were very comfortable with themselves and who were extremely cool and fun to hang around with.
Have I been hit on by gay men?... you betcha. Big deal. Gay men don't jump all over you and try to have their way... they flirt like anyone else. You either take the bait or you don't. I know who I am and most everyone else should too (if you don't then it is you who has the problem).

Consider all of that AND that my parents didn't bring me up to hate. That is THE most important thing.

[C-Fan]

I feel like opinions on this issue have evolved a lot over the past 8 years. It was interesting to read over Modified 2004's views...what are Modified 2012's views? For anybody who was around back in 2004, have your views changed at all?

[Jeremy]

My position is the same. Gay marriage should obviously be legal. People who think their religious beliefs should be imposed on all of society are immoral and the gay marriage debate demonstrates how religion perverts morality, rather than creating it. If you believe that gay marriage is wrong, you will always be free to not enter into your own gay marriage. Why should your beliefs be forced upon people who don't share them?

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the entire secular world adopts gay marriage, and it's probably only a few years away now.

edit; Of course the response to my rhetorical question is that decisions that harm other people should be made by society - ie. we legislate against murder etc. People in these debates often come up with what they think is a clever argument - that if you believe murder is wrong, why should your beliefs be applied to people who believe murder is right. Obviously the harm of actions should be considered as well. In the case of gay marriage, there is no harm. People regularly get confused about this and bring up issues like; "think of the children." Well that debate has already had, and you lost. Gay people can have as many children as they want. I'm yet to see an argument that demonstrates the difference in well-being when you compare an unmarried homosexual family with children to a married homosexual family with children. To make a harm argument about the debate of gay marriage has to centre around the actual act of marriage. If it centres around rights that gay people already have, you are stupid, and the argument is illogical.

Those arguments about issues already dealt with demonstrate two things;

1. The people who are say they are opposed to gay marriage are actually opposed to gay people (no matter how many gay friends and relatives they often claim to have).

2. This is completely a religious debate. Only people who hold strong dogmatic beliefs unsupported by evidence could be opposed to the existence of gay people.

[jimmyjames]

Separation of church and state.

Anyone who opposes equal legal status for same sex marriage/unions doesn't understand the concept of liberty and the role of government in people's lives.

[Pasquar]

I posted a map of the legal status of gay marriage on my facebook post-election and it interestingly sparked some debate from a friend of my brother, who has a gay father and an aunt.

Despite this personal connection, he argues that gays should not be able to marry because (I'm paraphrasing) the purpose of marriage is to raise children and advance the species, and gay couples clearly can't do that. He also said that he is not religious, but he is married to provide the 'proper environment' for his children to be raised.

I thought this was very interesting. Here is someone who is admittedly NOT religious who doesn't want his 'right' to marry given to gays. This is unfair, because there are PLENTY of gays who ARE religious who have that right taken away from them.

Marriage has social, legal, and cultural manifestations and for this reason, 'civil-unions' which serve to be a stand-in for marriages are not enough. Marriage is a age-old sign of commitment and by denying certain people their right to marry is just that-- denying certain people their rights.

[Muffinman]