hacky sack millionaires

[Jeremy]

I was parodying your post Nick, that's why it's "ironic." I'd love to know which things I've said are strawman arguments. I'm not sure you know what one is.

Obviously we're having a dialogue. Having a discussion doesn't mean agreeing. If I thought there was no point saying anything I wouldn't.

[Pasquar]

The issue still for me comes back to you claiming that what you think is fact, rather than admitting that all you have is an opinion (of which you have various reasons/evidence to believe what you do), which I have stated outright.

I think it's funny you label me a "communist" (which I do not identify, by the way), when one of the the biggest issues/criticisms of communist regimes is the censorship and oppression of new/adverse ideas & opinions. Rather than acknowledging difference in opinion, it seems like you consistently feel the need to defend whatever you think by stating it as fact, which I feel is very juvenile.

I am also curious to hear more about what you said earlier about you and Jon being racial minorities. I just read over that again and didn't understand what you meant by that.

[Outsider]

Well, I'm half reptilian on my father's side, and, I can't remember exactly what planet Jeremy is from, but I'm pretty sure he's some kind of space-man.

Anyway, I think I'm with Nick on this one --- I don't think you can really call some racist things as being black-or-white (no pun intended) yes-or-no issues. I'd say that with racism it can sometimes be like what they say about beauty --- its in the eye of the beholder.

I don't even really care to think too deeply about this stuff --- I'm shallow and superficial. But, I had to take an anti-sexual-harassment class for work many years ago ( I wasn't being singled out for something I did --- everybody on staff had to take the class... ) and, I seem to recall a bit of the lecture describing how that sort of thing can be determined in a court of law. That is to say, in SOME cases of sexual harassment, the harassment was deliberate. BUT, in many cases, the perpetrator will proclaim that no harassment was intended, AND WILL BE PERSONALLY CONVINCED OF THIS... but, even when the perp didn't intend to be harassing, if the victim FEELS harassed, that might be enough, and the judge and jury's criteria to decide if it is enough or not is some sort of "if other reasonable people can reasonably agree that the behavior could be felt to be harassment by a hypothetical reasonable victim, than even if the perpetrator had no intention of harassment, well, it's still harassment." Obviously I can't really remember exactly how they phrase that sort of thing, but my point is that there is a way of judging these issues that was established for, and will stand up in, a court of law... so whether one agrees with that sort of logic or not, one must take it seriously because it has the force of law -- at least, you know, under some jurisdictions. And so, something like sexual harassment is not an objective truth. It is subjective, and I guess some racist behavior or images can be described in the same way, whether racism was intended or not.

Hey, don't hate me for it --- it's not my idea --- its corporate mandated classes and New Jersey state law or US Federal law or whatever. Point is, it's not my idea, but you should pay attention because the judge and jury may decide your fate by it.

Anyway, I'd say that whether you feel that the Hacky Sack Millionaires video is racist or not, it won't kill us to all be a little more sensitive to the notion that even if most of us don't find the video offensive, perhaps somebody would, and their feelings on the matter should not just be dismissed because we take a quick head-count and find that they are in the minority (no pun intended) on the issue. Yeah, I mean, sure, on the one hand, one can hope that they can just find the humor in it and not take offense. And on the other, it's not like footbag can really afford to go alienating potential players because we can't show a little more sensitivity about these things.

Also, I think that this thread has gone on too long already. I didn't even want to add anything else to this "discussion" except that Jeremy outed me as a reptilian-american (and proud of it, damn it!) and Nick demanded to know more, so I had to chime it. After that, I'd prefer to go back to ignoring this. A minor argument/flame-war between Jeremy and Nick sounds like it will be totally lame...

But, I can't help myself from adding one more thing:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUzo3uQ00OM[/youtube]

I accept that this is racist somehow. I'm not completely sure who is being offended in this -- blacks, hispanics, or jews, or all of 'em.... sorry for being racist, but I think this is pretty funny. (I think the Purim video is ALOT funnier, actually, but Purim is still about half-a-year away, and Hanukkah starts next week, bitches).

[Jeremy]

Surely Jon you would agree that there are some things that are definitely racist, and some things that are definitely not racist, as well as things that are in the grey area.

Was Hitler racist?

That's clearly an easily answered black and white question.

Are trees racist?

Post modern cultural relativism is dead. It's not even internally consistent. There's a distinction between not knowing things, and them being unknowable.

If this video is itself racist, it should be easy to explain how. Instead we get nothing other than a garbled idea that some speculated people somewhere might misunderstand the video and use it to express their preexisting racism. Do you really find that convincing? If I misunderstand your last post and use it to express my racism, does that make you a racist?

[Ian Brill]

Das Racist.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ8ViYIeH04[/youtube]

[Pasquar]

A minor argument/flame-war between Jeremy and Nick sounds like it will be totally lame..

Agreed. Always is.

[t_blaze190]

Im an African American Senior and I've been footbagging since 8th grade. Upon starting this video, of course I was engaged by seeing that I was not the only one. But as the video fell into the depths of another mildly comedic stereotype parody my interest faded. A few chuckles here an there. This type of comedy is becoming supremely outdated it my opinion. As for the "subtle racism towards white people"... yes, i can see it. But all in all it was for the sake of comedy and clearly not meant to be taken serious.

[Pasquar]

As for the "subtle racism towards white people"... yes, i can see it.

Curious with what you meant by this. What was mentioned before in the context of racism was nothing racist against white people.

I personally don't think "reverse racism" exists in any true form in our society.

[Burkewhaley]

I think NIck hear is what's wrong with the world. Everything must be politically correct and anything that refers to race is inherently racist. Black people made this video. In no way is this video racist. Jeremy is 100 percent right.

[Pasquar]

I think people who state their opinion as fact and call some group of people "what's wrong with the world" are what's wrong with the world.

(Before you jump on that, it's meant to be ironic)

Reading back over this thread, a lot of this broke down to "is this racist" or not, a topic that I clearly brought on. Without picking back up things I've already said, my takeaway message is that perception is everythiung. So a discussion about whether something is "racist" or not is inherently about how we all individually perceive it. I don't believe, as some have expressed, that you can prove that something like this is racist emprically or what have you.

In that light, thank you for expressing your opinion that Jeremy is right.

[Jeremy]

But Nick, you didn't claim the video was racist, you claimed that White People are racist, and obviously implying that somehow this video demonstrates that White People are racist.

[C-Fan]

[F[uns]tylin' Eclectic]

I did not expect Tuan to be the first to get the hat hahaha

Sent from my C6916 using Tapatalk

[Asmus]

Amazing!