Why Lavers??
Mods do not read such tripe.Sick*Nick*Slick*Kick wrote:Couldn't agree with you more. Mods, make that happen?
habitat wrote:You remind me of me when I was 14 trying to prove everyone wrong with LOGIC!1!1 and playing the victim card at every chance I got while maintaining an unwarranted sense of self-importance juxtaposed against my utter lack of self-confidence.
Magus86 wrote:If by trying to prove everyone wrong, you mean responding to incorrect statements with a corrected statement, sure, I'm doing that. If by playing the victim card you mean me complaining about “having shoes shoved down my throat“, then sure, I'm doing that too. But at what point did I indicate that I think I'm important? I don't think anybody's important, especially not me.
tone of all of your posts the whole thread
You nailed it, nailer!
This thread is now about Bob Dole
James Randall
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h0ag3yb3atZ
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Magus86
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That's a picture of Bill Clinton. It's not playing a card if it's true(I don't think I'm a victim anyway, I just think people get way too damn emotional and assume things, then get pissed at me and bitch me out for it), and how the hell can I think I'm important yet have no self confidence?habitat wrote:Mods do not read such tripe.Sick*Nick*Slick*Kick wrote:Couldn't agree with you more. Mods, make that happen?
habitat wrote:You remind me of me when I was 14 trying to prove everyone wrong with LOGIC!1!1 and playing the victim card at every chance I got while maintaining an unwarranted sense of self-importance juxtaposed against my utter lack of self-confidence.Magus86 wrote:If by trying to prove everyone wrong, you mean responding to incorrect statements with a corrected statement, sure, I'm doing that. If by playing the victim card you mean me complaining about “having shoes shoved down my throat“, then sure, I'm doing that too. But at what point did I indicate that I think I'm important? I don't think anybody's important, especially not me.
tone of all of your posts the whole thread
You nailed it, nailer!
This thread is now about Bob Dole
I also never set out to prove anybody wrong... but whatever, you think what you want to.
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PegLegHolly
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Magus86
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I'm not the one who lacks the ability to read correctly and not put words in people's mouths. And I see people accusing me of being a troll while I was being perfectly reasonable. Zac said "we're not just losers kicking around a mini soccer ball," which I never suggested in the first place. That's an emotional response as opposed to a rational one. Jumping to conclusions, which was done by MANY since the damn beginning, is emotional. In the words of Willy Wonka: You lose! Good day, sir!
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Zac Miley
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Hey, if you stop responding to these people they'll have more respect for you than if you keep finding reasons to hate back at them. And you obviously really don't care what they're saying anyways, so why not just ignore it?
Cool paint job on the lavers.
Cool paint job on the lavers.
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
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Magus86
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I highly doubt that. That would be rational behavior, and most of them haven't been rational yet. And to be honest, I really don't care if I'm well liked around here or not. None of these people really mean anything to me, especially after all this crap. Some of them have come around, and those that have are cool. The rest can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.
I'm not ignoring it because responding is much more fun.
Thanks, I'm glad you like them. I killed a sharpie to make my shoes look like that, and it took forever. Oh, by the way, don't use sharpies in your room without your window open, or you'll get high on fumes... Unless that's what you want to do.
I'm not ignoring it because responding is much more fun.
Thanks, I'm glad you like them. I killed a sharpie to make my shoes look like that, and it took forever. Oh, by the way, don't use sharpies in your room without your window open, or you'll get high on fumes... Unless that's what you want to do.
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Zac Miley
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No, the people on here are rational, I promise. It's not about fun any more. You can have fun learning about footbag on this forum, but please don't have fun at the expense of others even if they're doing it to you. Like I said before, they are real people. Basically, be the bigger person.
Also, please don't confuse me with Ramen God again.
Also, please don't confuse me with Ramen God again.
Jay (8:06:01 PM): Bu-bu-buu-buug--Looks up, and the feeling goes away like a sneeze-bu-buuuh-BULLLSHITTT
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
Jay (8:06:14 PM): *wipes bellybutton*
wow, dope lavers.
you might want to consider cutting off that first eyelet (two per shoe). The bag can get caught in those and they just get in the way for my game.
bag looks cool too.
--
I think the thing that is going on here that is causing you such a higher degree of dissonance with the other players than most people experience (and, can we agree that you are definitely experiencing an abnormal amount of interpersonal dissonance when compared to the vibe of the rest of modified?) is that it does not seem to mean anything to you at all that you are dealing people who have had years of experience with the shoe you're asking about for the game you were considering using it for.
You seem to find your firsthand experience to be a lot more valuable than the opinions of people have been doing this for a long time (some of us, well over a decade) and I'm not sure why that is, or how it is that you reconcile that is a reasonable way to be.
Care to comment on that? Why is that and how do you reconcile it?
"This shit has been resolved for over a week now, and your post was completely and utterly pointless."
I don't know if I agree with this statement. The thing here that is not resolved is that you are giving your inexperienced suspicions and the value of your personal judgment an unbalanced amount of weight when weighed against the value of opinions of those who are more experienced than you, to the point where you're basically telling those of us who have had a long time to form good opinions that you will not be swayed by those opinions in any way, and furthermore, that you're insulted at the prospect that we would try to sway your opinion or suggest that your need to do things yourself (to the point where you're ignoring good info from good people) is maybe not the best way to go about thinking about things.
You also do not seem to be acknowledging that coming in and saying, in caps lock, that you can play "JUST FINE" in skater shoes, and that you question the validity of the shoes because they need to be modified ("why, if they're so good for footbag in the first place, do they need to be modified?") sets a precedent that clearly says, "I have no experience at all, but I am skeptical of your opinions anyway". That is a bit offensive and presumptuous in and of itself, and I think those statements are the roots of a lot of peoples' responses that seem to treat you like you are confrontational, and suggest that you don't know what you're talking about.
I think responding to someone who starts out his thread at a point such as that like a person that is being unreasonable is a totally rational and reasonable thing to do.
You also do not seem to be considering it as even a possibility that ANY of the information that was presented in a way that you do not like could be of value, which, I have to say, is not true.
You telling Jorden Moir to fuck off and that his opinion means nothing to you on a footbag forum because he was sharp with you, is like a kid on a basketball forum telling Michael Jorden to fuck off on a basketball forum because he was sharp with you.
In response to Jorden's aggressiveness in his post, I would say that you have really put a lot of vinegar out there on this thread instead of honey, and you should come to expect that people will respond to you bitterly by now. Sure, you could say the same about the ways that some people have responded to your (unquestionably unreasonable) distrust and suspicion of our opinions, but, to that, I would say, at what point do you take responsibility for your own negativity and stop putting it off on others?
Here's a question for you: at what point would you say that the range and value of someone's much greater experience is more important than you resolving your suspicions with first hand experience?
I ask because you just told someone with more pertinent and valuable experience than basically 99.9% of all people who have ever touched a footbag that he can fuck off and you don't care what he says (not in those words, but it's not hard draw that meaning from what you said).
Even if he is insulting you with every word along the way, you can find immense value in what he says if you try. He was acting (foolishly, because there's no way you could have been expected to respond positively to that) like a drill sergeant, and sometimes, to people who are undisciplined and not understanding (like you), a drill sergeant can be really valuable (although probably not in this case).
I don't think it's important to resolve this disbalance (you weighing your personal and yet-to-be-had experience much more highly than the opinions of those with a vast amount of pertinent experience), per se, but I think you are suffering from it (in ways that I would guess you do not even understand) and I want to help reduce that suffering, so please take this post in that way.
Also, just to draw a line between Jorden's post and yours, Jorden was guilty of EVERY SINGLE THING you have been accused of when he first joined the scene, including, but not limited to,
responding to frank (but conflicting) info like an attack.
holding his personal experience at a much higher value than the experience of those who came before him.
He was also an overweight video game obsessed loner who had gotten really used to the feeling that no one ever liked, understood, or related to him, and as such, treated all footbaggers like they would never like, understand, or relate to him when he first came on the scene.
Then, he got his feet wet in the game and the scene. He applied the fire and hate and self-loathing and others-loathing and passion and love and creativity that was deep in his soul to the game of footbag, and now, here we are, 8 years later, and he has done more with a little kicky sack (and his subsequent hand juggling work) than maybe anyone will ever do.
Surf around youtube a bit and take a look at who you just told to "go back to school"… Sooner or later, you're going to have to take a look at the results of these thoughts and opinions that we all have (such as Jorden's videos, or my videos - not to compare the two), and say "oh shit, these people really do know a ton more about this than I do, and maybe I should show some respect for that by trusting and valuing the opinions they are trying to share with me, even though I (with no experience) don't agree. Maybe they have experienced something that I haven't that is worth changing my opinions over."
But then again, maybe you're just the next Jorden Moir… God, I hope that's it and you prove us all wrong.
you might want to consider cutting off that first eyelet (two per shoe). The bag can get caught in those and they just get in the way for my game.
bag looks cool too.
--
I think the thing that is going on here that is causing you such a higher degree of dissonance with the other players than most people experience (and, can we agree that you are definitely experiencing an abnormal amount of interpersonal dissonance when compared to the vibe of the rest of modified?) is that it does not seem to mean anything to you at all that you are dealing people who have had years of experience with the shoe you're asking about for the game you were considering using it for.
You seem to find your firsthand experience to be a lot more valuable than the opinions of people have been doing this for a long time (some of us, well over a decade) and I'm not sure why that is, or how it is that you reconcile that is a reasonable way to be.
Care to comment on that? Why is that and how do you reconcile it?
"This shit has been resolved for over a week now, and your post was completely and utterly pointless."
I don't know if I agree with this statement. The thing here that is not resolved is that you are giving your inexperienced suspicions and the value of your personal judgment an unbalanced amount of weight when weighed against the value of opinions of those who are more experienced than you, to the point where you're basically telling those of us who have had a long time to form good opinions that you will not be swayed by those opinions in any way, and furthermore, that you're insulted at the prospect that we would try to sway your opinion or suggest that your need to do things yourself (to the point where you're ignoring good info from good people) is maybe not the best way to go about thinking about things.
You also do not seem to be acknowledging that coming in and saying, in caps lock, that you can play "JUST FINE" in skater shoes, and that you question the validity of the shoes because they need to be modified ("why, if they're so good for footbag in the first place, do they need to be modified?") sets a precedent that clearly says, "I have no experience at all, but I am skeptical of your opinions anyway". That is a bit offensive and presumptuous in and of itself, and I think those statements are the roots of a lot of peoples' responses that seem to treat you like you are confrontational, and suggest that you don't know what you're talking about.
I think responding to someone who starts out his thread at a point such as that like a person that is being unreasonable is a totally rational and reasonable thing to do.
You also do not seem to be considering it as even a possibility that ANY of the information that was presented in a way that you do not like could be of value, which, I have to say, is not true.
You telling Jorden Moir to fuck off and that his opinion means nothing to you on a footbag forum because he was sharp with you, is like a kid on a basketball forum telling Michael Jorden to fuck off on a basketball forum because he was sharp with you.
In response to Jorden's aggressiveness in his post, I would say that you have really put a lot of vinegar out there on this thread instead of honey, and you should come to expect that people will respond to you bitterly by now. Sure, you could say the same about the ways that some people have responded to your (unquestionably unreasonable) distrust and suspicion of our opinions, but, to that, I would say, at what point do you take responsibility for your own negativity and stop putting it off on others?
Here's a question for you: at what point would you say that the range and value of someone's much greater experience is more important than you resolving your suspicions with first hand experience?
I ask because you just told someone with more pertinent and valuable experience than basically 99.9% of all people who have ever touched a footbag that he can fuck off and you don't care what he says (not in those words, but it's not hard draw that meaning from what you said).
Even if he is insulting you with every word along the way, you can find immense value in what he says if you try. He was acting (foolishly, because there's no way you could have been expected to respond positively to that) like a drill sergeant, and sometimes, to people who are undisciplined and not understanding (like you), a drill sergeant can be really valuable (although probably not in this case).
I don't think it's important to resolve this disbalance (you weighing your personal and yet-to-be-had experience much more highly than the opinions of those with a vast amount of pertinent experience), per se, but I think you are suffering from it (in ways that I would guess you do not even understand) and I want to help reduce that suffering, so please take this post in that way.
Also, just to draw a line between Jorden's post and yours, Jorden was guilty of EVERY SINGLE THING you have been accused of when he first joined the scene, including, but not limited to,
responding to frank (but conflicting) info like an attack.
holding his personal experience at a much higher value than the experience of those who came before him.
He was also an overweight video game obsessed loner who had gotten really used to the feeling that no one ever liked, understood, or related to him, and as such, treated all footbaggers like they would never like, understand, or relate to him when he first came on the scene.
Then, he got his feet wet in the game and the scene. He applied the fire and hate and self-loathing and others-loathing and passion and love and creativity that was deep in his soul to the game of footbag, and now, here we are, 8 years later, and he has done more with a little kicky sack (and his subsequent hand juggling work) than maybe anyone will ever do.
Surf around youtube a bit and take a look at who you just told to "go back to school"… Sooner or later, you're going to have to take a look at the results of these thoughts and opinions that we all have (such as Jorden's videos, or my videos - not to compare the two), and say "oh shit, these people really do know a ton more about this than I do, and maybe I should show some respect for that by trusting and valuing the opinions they are trying to share with me, even though I (with no experience) don't agree. Maybe they have experienced something that I haven't that is worth changing my opinions over."
But then again, maybe you're just the next Jorden Moir… God, I hope that's it and you prove us all wrong.
BRICK!
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
rfa::never give up::
nyfa
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Magus86
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Thanks, I like 'em too. 
MC, You seem to think for some reason that because I want to see how things are for myself that I don't value the advice or opinion of anybody else. I don't know why, and that's not the case. I already stated my reasons for wanting to try the shoes out(comfort/fit, mostly). What works for most people doesn't necessarily work for everybody. That's all. If I didn't value any of the advice whatsoever, I never would have even considered trying the shoes in the first place. I also wouldn't have asked for it. In my life, I've come to learn that a shitload of things I've been told by authority figures and others who are supposed to know what they're talking about are false. Now that doesn't mean I automatically assume everything I hear is false. I'm just skeptical and want to find out for myself. I don't automatically believe what I hear, but I still ask for guidance here and there. I don't know why it wasn't good enough that I at least decided to find out. That's better than totally ignoring the advice entirely and saying "fuck everybody, I'll play in my vans forever, buwahahaha!" I "give my personal judgement more weight," as you say, because it's the only real proof of and way of validating what you say, plus because like I said, I don't know if a shoe is comfortable for me until I put it on. I don't see why that's such a big deal as you seem to, so there's no need for reconciliation. It's kind of like the movie "American Beauty" when the one kid's dad complains about the homosexuals in the community coming to the front door and not being shameful about their sexuality or trying to hide it. The kid tells his dad, "That's the thing. They don't see it as something to be ashamed of." Because that's just who they are. Just like I am the kind of person who likes to find out things for myself before spreading crap. Again, this does not mean I think what everybody says here is automatically crap. Do you always believe everything you hear from "experts" of everything? What if two different "experts" say two opposite things? Which one do you believe without finding out for yourself? I don't see anybody here bashing lavers, and neither am I, so I realize that's not quite the same situation, but the point is still valid. If I don't find out for myself, I won't really know.
There was no opinion to be swayed. I didn't have an opinion of the shoes beyond not being able to see the big difference between them and skater shoes. Only upon close examination and/or simply wearing the damn things, could I form an opinion. However, as I said earlier, if the community's opinions and advice about the shoes meant nothing at all, I wouldn't have been curious about them in the first place. But just because somebody says "go out and buy the shoes" doesn't mean I'm going to run out and by them, ESPECIALLY when I had no money to begin with. The most ridiculous and irritating part of this whole thing was when my intelligence is being insulted because I didn't buy something I didn't have money for. I now realize how good the shoes are, and I do appreciate the input I received. What I don't appreciate is the bullshit that came with it in some cases.
What was resolved is the issue of me not understanding what's so special about the shoes. That, and I now have my own pair and love them.
I already cleared this up before, but I'll repeat it. When I said I can play "just fine," that meant that I was happy with my ability to play. That is not stating or implying that I think I'm good at all, or as good as anybody in this forum. I didn't have anybody to play with anywhere near me that I knew of who could do any of the fancy stalls and tricks anyway, so it wasn't incredibly important to me to be able to do them myself. However, I still enjoy doing it. I think it's cool, and I was intrigued.
I don't see what's presumptuous or offensive about that question. That's simply me not understanding why you couldn't just modify some other shoe, or why you can't play with them the way they come. I don't know how I could have worded that differently to not be offensive. I didn't think that would be offensive in the first place, and it wasn't meant to be. I could have asked "why do the shoes need to be modified?" But then I'd probably just get answers like "so you can play better." They may have been more specific than that, but that's the general answer I probably would have gotten, and that wasn't quite what I was trying to find out. I already understood that concept. And I never said I knew anything about freestyle footbag in the first place.
While it doesn't come as a surprise that people are bitter at this point, what does surprise me is the fact that after attempting to put an end to that(which I was trying to do until I was told I don't belong here), someone else comes along to call me a dipshit and tell me to get the shoes I already have. If he wasn't going to read the thread, he shouldn't have responded. Lol, suspicion? Do you think that I think you're trying to make me suck at footbag by telling me to get lavers or something? Negativity only came from me after it was given to me. Anything perceived as negativity before that is incorrectly perceived as such.
I already know people here know more about footbag than I do. That's why I came here in the first place. That's why I asked. That's why I decided to try Lavers. That's why I went and kicked with Zach and Nick. It's why I let them Broka mod my Lavers. It's why I have my Lavers laced the way I do. It's why I tried to take Zach and Nick's advice. It's the reason I asked about ultrasuede and chainmail bags. If I thought you were all complete and utter morons, I wouldn't bother to post here at all. I wouldn't be typing this right now. This thread wouldn't even exist. I would have just said "oh screw them,they don't know shit," and I would still be kicking in my Vans. The reason this whole thing started is because people misinterpreted me. I'm not trying to push blame, but I never meant anything to be negative, offensive, or arrogant in the beginning. I told Jorden to fuck off and go back to school to learn to read because he obviously either didn't read the part where I have and like Lavers and because he called me a dipshit.
Sorry, Zac. My bad. I'll try not to mix the two of you up again.
By the way, I can now do inside stalls on both feet. I ordered some filler from Freedom Footbags. They ran out of stock on some of it, so they gave me more of a different kind plus a free Mr. Sandbag, which makes stalling an assload easier compared to the bags I was using.
MC, You seem to think for some reason that because I want to see how things are for myself that I don't value the advice or opinion of anybody else. I don't know why, and that's not the case. I already stated my reasons for wanting to try the shoes out(comfort/fit, mostly). What works for most people doesn't necessarily work for everybody. That's all. If I didn't value any of the advice whatsoever, I never would have even considered trying the shoes in the first place. I also wouldn't have asked for it. In my life, I've come to learn that a shitload of things I've been told by authority figures and others who are supposed to know what they're talking about are false. Now that doesn't mean I automatically assume everything I hear is false. I'm just skeptical and want to find out for myself. I don't automatically believe what I hear, but I still ask for guidance here and there. I don't know why it wasn't good enough that I at least decided to find out. That's better than totally ignoring the advice entirely and saying "fuck everybody, I'll play in my vans forever, buwahahaha!" I "give my personal judgement more weight," as you say, because it's the only real proof of and way of validating what you say, plus because like I said, I don't know if a shoe is comfortable for me until I put it on. I don't see why that's such a big deal as you seem to, so there's no need for reconciliation. It's kind of like the movie "American Beauty" when the one kid's dad complains about the homosexuals in the community coming to the front door and not being shameful about their sexuality or trying to hide it. The kid tells his dad, "That's the thing. They don't see it as something to be ashamed of." Because that's just who they are. Just like I am the kind of person who likes to find out things for myself before spreading crap. Again, this does not mean I think what everybody says here is automatically crap. Do you always believe everything you hear from "experts" of everything? What if two different "experts" say two opposite things? Which one do you believe without finding out for yourself? I don't see anybody here bashing lavers, and neither am I, so I realize that's not quite the same situation, but the point is still valid. If I don't find out for myself, I won't really know.
There was no opinion to be swayed. I didn't have an opinion of the shoes beyond not being able to see the big difference between them and skater shoes. Only upon close examination and/or simply wearing the damn things, could I form an opinion. However, as I said earlier, if the community's opinions and advice about the shoes meant nothing at all, I wouldn't have been curious about them in the first place. But just because somebody says "go out and buy the shoes" doesn't mean I'm going to run out and by them, ESPECIALLY when I had no money to begin with. The most ridiculous and irritating part of this whole thing was when my intelligence is being insulted because I didn't buy something I didn't have money for. I now realize how good the shoes are, and I do appreciate the input I received. What I don't appreciate is the bullshit that came with it in some cases.
What was resolved is the issue of me not understanding what's so special about the shoes. That, and I now have my own pair and love them.
I already cleared this up before, but I'll repeat it. When I said I can play "just fine," that meant that I was happy with my ability to play. That is not stating or implying that I think I'm good at all, or as good as anybody in this forum. I didn't have anybody to play with anywhere near me that I knew of who could do any of the fancy stalls and tricks anyway, so it wasn't incredibly important to me to be able to do them myself. However, I still enjoy doing it. I think it's cool, and I was intrigued.
I don't see what's presumptuous or offensive about that question. That's simply me not understanding why you couldn't just modify some other shoe, or why you can't play with them the way they come. I don't know how I could have worded that differently to not be offensive. I didn't think that would be offensive in the first place, and it wasn't meant to be. I could have asked "why do the shoes need to be modified?" But then I'd probably just get answers like "so you can play better." They may have been more specific than that, but that's the general answer I probably would have gotten, and that wasn't quite what I was trying to find out. I already understood that concept. And I never said I knew anything about freestyle footbag in the first place.
While it doesn't come as a surprise that people are bitter at this point, what does surprise me is the fact that after attempting to put an end to that(which I was trying to do until I was told I don't belong here), someone else comes along to call me a dipshit and tell me to get the shoes I already have. If he wasn't going to read the thread, he shouldn't have responded. Lol, suspicion? Do you think that I think you're trying to make me suck at footbag by telling me to get lavers or something? Negativity only came from me after it was given to me. Anything perceived as negativity before that is incorrectly perceived as such.
I already know people here know more about footbag than I do. That's why I came here in the first place. That's why I asked. That's why I decided to try Lavers. That's why I went and kicked with Zach and Nick. It's why I let them Broka mod my Lavers. It's why I have my Lavers laced the way I do. It's why I tried to take Zach and Nick's advice. It's the reason I asked about ultrasuede and chainmail bags. If I thought you were all complete and utter morons, I wouldn't bother to post here at all. I wouldn't be typing this right now. This thread wouldn't even exist. I would have just said "oh screw them,they don't know shit," and I would still be kicking in my Vans. The reason this whole thing started is because people misinterpreted me. I'm not trying to push blame, but I never meant anything to be negative, offensive, or arrogant in the beginning. I told Jorden to fuck off and go back to school to learn to read because he obviously either didn't read the part where I have and like Lavers and because he called me a dipshit.
Sorry, Zac. My bad. I'll try not to mix the two of you up again.
By the way, I can now do inside stalls on both feet. I ordered some filler from Freedom Footbags. They ran out of stock on some of it, so they gave me more of a different kind plus a free Mr. Sandbag, which makes stalling an assload easier compared to the bags I was using.
