Any techniques used for creating more ankle torque?

chrismiller · Post by **chrismiller** » 15 Oct 2005 16:25

I wasn't sure whether or not to put this here or in the Getting Started index, but I saw some stretching posts here so I figured this would be a good place. I also searched using several related search terms, so if anyone knows where a similar thread is, please point that out.

I was just wondering if someone had a particular technique they used for developing more ankle torque. That's one of my weaknesses at this point. Perhaps John Shnieder can help. Those dragon stalls are intense!!

professor · Post by **professor** » 15 Oct 2005 16:43

Outsider (aka John S.) wrote:To get a better, flatter clipper I recommend learning the Walk-Over.
Obviously a really old-skool trick (though I've heard V.K. is doing some interesting stuff with it lately, and I remember seeing somebody years ago[from Chicago, I think] doing these interesting planted-osis-into-walkovers a while back, really cool looking...), but its useful, especially for building up a foundation of consistent (relatively) flat clipper stalls. (I don't think clippers need to be perfectly flat to be perfectly good. My clippers are not perfectly flat, and I've got 15 consecutive whirling swirls to say that there is nothing wrong with my slightly angled clipper position).

At first they can feel very awkward, but with a little persistence they become smooth and easy. Here's what I'd do:
Start with an inside stall, and lower it to the ground. At first, since it feels freaky to put all your weight on your deliberately twisted ankle, you'll do them very quickly. Just a quick little step so your weight is resting on that bent ankle for just a half-second. Then try walking back the same way. When you feel a little more at ease with this manuever, do that walk-over, then still holding the bag on your clipper, lift the clipper up off the floor slowly and hold it there. Then slowly lower the foot back to the ground with the bag still on the clipper, and do the Walk-back. Again, pause a moment and slowly lift the foot up off the ground to stand in a basic inside stall, keeping the bag right where it was. Now carefully lower it back to the ground and do the Walk-over again, and slowly lift the foot back up in clipper position, hold it, and then slowly put it back down. Repeat repeat repeat. As you go, and as you feel less freaked out putting your weight on your bent ankle, try doing the actual Walk-over part a little more slowly.
I still do this exercise from time to time.

If you worry about compromising the strength of your ankles, then I recommend another simple exercise: do a quadriceps stretch (while standing on one leg, pull the foot of the other leg up against your butt) without holding on to anything. Just stand and gently stretch your quad, and balance as well as you can as long as you can on the other foot. No hopping. This will strengthen the muscles in your ankle that are responsible for ankle stability. If you find this easy, try closing your eyes while you do this balancing act. Much of your sense of balance is derived from visual cues, and if you take those visual cues out of the equation, the muscles in the ankle have to work harder to compensate.

I recommend against agressive stretching. Don't stretch anything so much that it hurts. I agree with Jeremy that this is more about muscle strength and muscle memory than flexibility. Your ankles are probably already flexible enough, and nothing you do is going to make them become more flexible. The muscles controlling how your ankles cranks are simply untrained. They are not yet accustomed to flexing in the right way. You just have to help these muscles learn which of them are supposed to flex and stay flexed, and which of them are supposed to relax and stay relaxed. Doing those walk-overs, especially the part where you slowly pick your foot up off the ground with the bag on it and slowly lower it back down (much more important than then actual walking-over), train these muscles to act the way you want them too. After a little while, muscle memory does most of it for you.

This was found here.

chrismiller · Post by **chrismiller** » 15 Oct 2005 16:47

THANKS!

Iain · Post by **Iain** » 15 Oct 2005 18:33

break ur ankles and let them heal sideways

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 24 Oct 2005 11:09

Is that what you did?

Sidi||TOFU · Post by **Sidi||TOFU** » 29 Oct 2005 08:34

Thanks for the walk-over walk-back repeat stretch that's good.

Another stretch is to sit on the ground with the soles of your feet touching each other. Bend your knees together while still having your soles touching. Don't push too hard if discomfort sets in. Pull them slowly apart going further and further apart. This will stretch your hip, groin and the ankle will be crankier. I am no expert but the motion got easier after doing that.

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 29 Oct 2005 09:12

OK, I understand that this topic has nothing to do with Torques, but if you want to get a better delay to your Torques - just spin more.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 29 Oct 2005 09:21

You can only learn crank to a certain point dependant on how your ankles are actually structured. Not everyone can get Vasek crank. However, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to shred hard! (see: flash, seb, and lynton!) At any rate, a lot of clipper flatness has to do with how you hold your body and not just how you crank your ankle. Bending your knees more can help you acheive more crank. Also, where you position your clipper in relation to your body. Watch Felix and someone like Stefan Seigert play. Stefan's clippers are right next to his calf and create a line with the other clipper in front of his torso. Felix's clippers are always further behind and done with both knees next to each other, to compensate for the position a lot of leaning over and balancing is done (maybe with Felix less, but that's because he has mad crank). Stefan's method requires a lot of movement on the part of the hips and is inconvenient for a lot of moves, but Felix's style is very ergonomic (think running!) and opens up a lot of space for techy crossbody moves like swirls, spinning, whirls, etc. Watch video to see what I mean.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 29 Oct 2005 13:05

On Euros I asked Czechs about their secret stretches for mad ankle crank, but they gave me only some unclear answers like "It's czech school" and etc. And Honza claimed that they don't have any secret stretches and flat clippers either...

sniikeri · Post by **sniikeri** » 30 Oct 2005 02:02

ptaku wrote:On Euros I asked Czechs about their secret stretches for mad ankle crank, but they gave me only some unclear answers like "It's czech school" and etc. And Honza claimed that they don't have any secret stretches and flat clippers either...

Iain wrote:break ur ankles and let them heal sideways

Toby · Post by **Toby** » 13 Nov 2005 20:29

I think that trying to achieve flat clippers quickly is a bad idea. For a large amount of people it just results in nasty injuries which don't ever heal properly when you roll your ankle.

You don't need to have flat clippers to have consistant clippers, all you need is good form.

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » 19 Nov 2005 23:34

scalpleee

krawallier · Post by **krawallier** » 29 Nov 2005 04:05

http://modified.ca/footbag/viewtopic.php?t=11218

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 29 Nov 2005 21:53

Super flat clippers arent totally necessary you will just have to do a deep knee bend and it will be in the right position. Saying you need weird flat ankles for footbag is like saying you need some special body shape for juggling, your body shape may kinda dictate your style somewhat though.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 29 Nov 2005 22:37

The above is false actually. Flatter clippers makes various positions of the clipper less difficult to attain and it allows consistent straight up sets from these various positions. Watch where Vasek, Felix, Jorden, and most other excellent players that do a lot of different crossbody concepts keep their clippers for moves like swirl vs. pdx drifter and the like. Also, with too little ankle crank, having to bend your knees too much can lead to poor ergonomics in the rest of your game. However, too little crank is not something many people have -- probably about as common as McKenzie and Vasek's super crank.

Will Digges · Post by **Will Digges** » 30 Nov 2005 05:53

I have the worst crank ever, I can still do clipper tricks. As said before, it really matters how good you stall with your foot and how you hold your body.

ShredOnLawn · Post by **ShredOnLawn** » 30 Nov 2005 13:29

Lace your shoes very loosely and tie the laces toward the outside of your shoe as much as possible. Wear thin or no Socks. Warm up with Walkovers and clipper freeze stalls. Cut the inside canvas off the shoe from the nice slick mesh. Practice Osis a lot.

footjoe · Post by **footjoe** » 30 Nov 2005 13:41

i have more crank when my shoes are tighter

Guest_2 · Post by **Guest_2** » 30 Nov 2005 14:23

ShredOnLawn wrote:Lace your shoes very loosely and tie the laces toward the outside of your shoe as much as possible. .

How do you lace them?

I thought you cut the mesh off of yours?

professor · Post by **professor** » 02 Dec 2005 00:09

Just recently I've been experimenting with how I bend my ankles to get better crank. To bend my ankle into a clipper position, I would always curl my toes towards the sole of my shoe. A week or so ago I tried not curling my toes and realized that I got the same amount of crank as I did by curling my toes. So I began playing and making sure that I didn't curl my toes.

I played the same as with my toes curled, but muscles in my calf were starting to get tired. The next day if I tried to crank my ankle again and my muscles were so sore, leading me to believe that I had activated muscles in my calf that controlled ankle crank that I've never used before. So, now I try and crank my ankle only using those muscles in my calf and it seems to be helping although it has only been a week. I'm seeing small results. I'll report if I get more results.