SCI 06' Intermediate and OPEN COMPETITIONS NOW UP

[C-Fan]

Yeah, I got the same results as Johnny. My Worlds score would be 204.81, my score using the SCI system would be 201.28.

Jim's score using either Worlds or SCI system would be 228.63

I haven't scored Lon's run yet, but according to Worlds rules, the clock starts on the first add, and the scoring starts on the first guiltless add. Unfortunately, Lon does a toe stall, waits 5 seconds, then starts his run. I'll calculate his score both ways, but I don't like the idea of making exceptions for certain players, when the rules are pretty clear.


Nate: I liked your Sick1. I also though flipwalk would be top 3. Oh, and I don't think Jeremy hit whirring swirl. He hit whirr.

[Johnny]

Jim Penske's SCI Shred 30 = 228.625.

I agree.

Re: Lon Smith's SCI Shred 30

toe* > clipper* > blur > leg > blur* > park > side > p. drifter > p. torque > p. whirl > mobius > tomahawk > scorps > spin butter > mobius* > dive osis > zulu butter > dive osis > blurry whirl > spin whirl > drop* > double down > scorps > spin whirl* // > spin osis > ripwalk > ripwalk > duck osis > p. blender

*non-unique
//where Lon's run would have ended if starting from the toe-stall (really hard to tell may end on scorpions tail)

Case 1 (counting from toe stall and including spin whirl):
Contacts: 25
Uniques: 19
Adds: 101
Score: 177.76

Case 2 (counting from toe stall and excluding spin whirl):
Contacts: 24
Uniques: 19
Adds: 96
Score: 172.00

Case 3 (counting from clipper):
Contacts: 29
Uniques: 25
Adds: 121
Score: 225.31

Case 4 (counting from first guiltless add excluding original clipper in contact count etc):
Contacts: 28
Uniques:25
Adds: 119
Score: 225.25


Note: I did these reallllly quickly so I probably screwed something up. ie: I wasted my time and I'll probably have to redo them anyway.
Edit: I counted the handset double down as unique. Is that what the world's judges would do?

[C-Fan]

Cool, thanks Johnny, Ville, and Mike for your math help. OK, here's my Lon Smith calculation. Again, non-unique tricks are marked with an asterisk.

Toe stall [worlds clock should start]- clipper-blur (score should start)-legbeater-blur*- parkwalk-sidewalk- pdx drifter- pdx torque-pdx whirl-spinning whirl-mobius-tomahawk -scorpions tail-spin butterfly-mobius*- diving osis-zulu butterfly-diving osis*-blurry whirl-spinning whirl- DROP- down double-scorpion's tail-spinning whirl* - [worlds clock stops] spinning osis-ripwalk-ripwalk -ducking osis-pdx blender-(30 seconds after clipper stall) -osis

If you start the clock on the toe stall (Worlds rules), then everything after the last spinning whirl doesn't count. If you start the clock on the clipper stall, then everything except the last osis counts.

Worlds scoring:
23 contacts
1 drop
10 fives (8 unique)
12 fours (10 unique, but using the SCI system, only 9, since handset down double doesn't count)
Zero threes

170.43 under the SCI rules, 174.70 under Worlds Rules.

Alternate scoring (SCI MC count)
28 contacts
1 drop
11 fives (9 unique)
16 fours (14 unique, but using the SCI system, only 13, since handset down double doesn't count)
Zero threes

212.5 under SCI rules, 216.75 if the down double is unique.

Can somebody verify? I'd also like people to check my transcription; I found it harder to transcribe Lon because of all the osii tricks. I also would like it if others verified that the last osis counts/does not count if you started the clock on the clipper.

[ville]

Then I still don't understand why you counted 25 uniques, instead of 26.

That was the calculation with no paradox blender, hence one contact and one unique less.

Oh and Johnnys scores are right, I counted pdx blender as 4 adds . Was in a hurry to watch the world cup game (which was boring as hell btw)

[Matt K]

Ken, what was the move that you started both Sick 3's with? It looked like Sailing Ducking, but I couldn't really tell.

Also, what was Jeremy's first Sick 1?

[wolfpac444]

Ken, what was the move that you started both Sick 3's with? It looked like Sailing Ducking, but I couldn't really tell.

Alpine legbeater (atomic ducking butterfly)

Also, what was Jeremy's first Sick 1?

Symposium Torque

[david]

starting on lon's toestall is the stupid. its first guiltless contact. I've always thought that.

[Jimpenske]

There should be a universal way to score shred 30. Everyone should use the same system. That way it would make it easier in the future. I think we should use the worlds rules. But I guess it's impossible for everyone to agree on one system.

[C-Fan]

Then I still don't understand why you counted 25 uniques, instead of 26.

That was the calculation with no paradox blender, hence one contact and one unique less.

Oh and Johnnys scores are right, I btw)

Re-read my transcription of moves, or read Johnny's transcription. Either way, you will see that WITH the pdx blender, it has 27 uniques, and WITHOUT the pdx blender, it has 26 uniques. That's using the Worlds system, not the SCI "handset moves don't count as unique, even if you hadn't hit them yet in the string" silliness.

Jim: I completely agree that Shred30 scores should be calculated the same all the time. It makes it easier for the competitors, and for the calculators. At SCI they introduced a new rule (hand-set moves aren't counted as uniques, no matter what) without mentioning it to the competitors. I know this would have changed my approach to my Shred, because it is a different rule than the one they use at Worlds. Because of this, I am recording the Worlds scores for the Shred scores in the "top Shred30" thread, and not the SCI scores.

Dave: I didn't make the rules, I just advocate that the rules be followed. Otherwise, what's the point of having rules in the first place? Just to clarify, the Worlds Shred rules say that the clock starts on the first add, and the score starts on the first guiltless add. That means that when Vasek started his shred at Worlds with toe stall- clipper stall-crazy 271+ shred, the clock started on the toe stall, and the score started on the first guiltless trick. If the clock had started on the first guiltless trick, then Vasek would have had about 1 more second to add to his score. 1 more unique six would have made it 283+. If the rule gets changed to "clock and score start on first guiltless trick" then fine. I am not here to argue whether or not the rules are "the stupid" or not. But the rules have to apply to everybody, and making exceptions for superstars isn't a good trend to set.

From a personal standpoint, as a fan of footbag, I think Lon's Shred was great, and should score 216.75. As somebody who hopes footbag becomes a competitive sport that is taken seriously in the future, I think the rules should be followed strictly. If Vasek performed his 271 shred at SCI, and Lon did what he did, I think it woud be incredibly unfair to Vasek that he lose 1-2 moves. Everybody has to play under the same rules.

[C-Fan]

The edit button doesn't work for me, and the forums are flipping out, so just pretend this was in my last post:

Johnny: you counted Lon's diving osii as unique, but based on your Job's that can't be right. I don't think they are unique. Also, the clock starts on the first add (toe stall), but the scoring doesn't start til the first guiltless contact. So the toe and clipper stalls don't figure into the score.

[brian relly]

the Worlds Shred rules say that the clock starts on the first add

First contact/attempted contact

[ville]

At SCI they introduced a new rule without mentioning it to the competitors

I think it's the organizers responsibility to inform the players of even the current rules and of course possible changes. Shred:30 rules are always a bit mysterious. I'm sure Lon didn't know about the time starts on the first contact rule. And it's also as much his fault for not knowing, but..

As somebody who hopes footbag becomes a competitive sport that is taken seriously in the future, I think the rules should be followed strictly.

I agree that the rules should be the same everywhere. But first there should be a standard ruleset for judging shred:30. I know there is a chapter on it in the IFPA rulebook, but it's not really accurate enough to solve situations like these. Maybe we should make a proposition to the IFC to update it? I've also been thinking about making a standardized judging sheet for shred:30 since last years worlds where I was part of the shred judging team that judged all the shreds. Something like the freestyle judging sheet, with space to write down the run and places for adds, contacts, uniques, add ratio and final score. It would make it easy to archive them and maybe check scores later.

[blitz]

OMFG.

It really seems like EVERYBODY hit pretty well in comp, which is a pretty rare occurrence.

It will be the norm when the Circle contest prevails and outdates the footnerd contests of yesteryear.


That's all I wanted to say.