Your Opinions?

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 23 Jul 2003 13:23

What are you talking about?

SlapNut · Post by **SlapNut** » 23 Jul 2003 13:59

haha, what an editor. he edited out his mistakes.
what kind of loser edits his mistakes?

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 23 Jul 2003 15:33

SlapNut wrote:haha, what an editor. he edited out his mistakes.
what kind of loser edits his mistakes?

you've obviously missed the knowing smiley face at the end. Good one, sherlock!

SlapNut · Post by **SlapNut** » 23 Jul 2003 15:34

wow. we were both being sarcastic. what a coincidence...

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 23 Jul 2003 16:51

Whoops, please omit previous sarcastic comment!

MJK · Post by **MJK** » 23 Jul 2003 18:32

I have a couple of additions....

1) Darryl Sponsored an event in my town, does an infinite amount for footbag, is a very cool guy, and sells his bags cheap as dirt (not to mention the fact that he gives them away like candy) solely out of care for his customers. Because of this, I go out of my way to buy my footbag products from him.

2) I think you would have a moral responsibility to pay him royalties, because you're going to use his design and his success to sell your bags.

3) Don't let me discourage you, but give these two things some thought. God luck!

carl winslow · Post by **carl winslow** » 23 Jul 2003 18:42

is the mr sandman design pattented or copyrighted?

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 23 Jul 2003 18:52

Ok, here's my big issue:

As so far you have a lack of references, you are the only one promoting your bags. And if I can recall, you are still working on your basic dexes, making your opinion of bags less than looked up too. Freedoms are used by, now don't get on me for generalizing here, all of the best in the world that don't use 32 panels; it is the second best choice for a style of bag in the world. And, one of the biggest reasons this is so is because of the conformity of the material. Since using my first revolution, I have disliked playing with dirtbags and Sandmasters because of the material, which is the same material you use on your bags. And, yours are more expensive.

Now, I'm not saying don't try. Send out samples like they said. Especially to Holden, he has a great handle on footbag, and seems willing to give a positive reveiw regardless of his closeness to Dayrl. I'd be in to test them out too, since I took advantage of daryl's FREE 5 bag offer in which he sent 5 defect/tester bags that I over-anayzled to death, therefore becoming a 4 panel efficianado.

Panda Licker · Post by **Panda Licker** » 23 Jul 2003 19:09

maybe the fact that he doesnt have his basic dex's is a good thing. If he could use the bag, and it actually helped his game, maybe its a good beginner bag. i dunno though. Synth suede sucks, so why pay more for a bag made out of it?

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 24 Jul 2003 07:58

Ah, but you assume that I don't go out of my way for footbag! When I first started playing footbag in San Diego I had the fortune to meet and play with Abshire. Not that he took me under his wing or anything, I just played in the same circle as him and he was always super cool about the fact that I could only toe stall half of the time. Actually, now that I remember it, he taught me my first 'wrap' move. Anyway, that gave me a great impression of the sport, and since then I have tried to be as cool to people who are getting their own beginnings. If someone can't get a basic stall move, I'll try my best to help them. As far as giving away bags for free, I have and still do. Unfortunetly for me, however, I am unable to give them away like candy. I make all of my bags by hand. If I did give them away like candy, I'd probably have to give up school and my girlfriend so that I'd have enough time to sew! No thanks. I may, however create 5 or so bags to give to people on this forum for testing purposes, but even that is going to take a while. I always take 15 credits per school term.

As far as a moral responsibility to Darryl... I would say that the majority of the responsibility if it exists at all would be a legal one. The pattern I use was inspired by the freedom bags, not copied from. I actually did have to make X ammount of bags before it looked right. Nevertheless, they are quite similar, so I don't know where the line gets drawn on that one. 'Kleenex' and 'Scott's Facial Tissue' are two extremely similar products. We all know one of them came first, and we all know that one is of a higher quality. I don't see too much difference between this and my situation... but I am going to look in to it. I'm sure that if a footbag pattern is legally copywritable then he's already got dibs on it. And if he doesn't, I'm not going to claim them! But if he does, then it might mean that I'll have to give up on the idea of selling them online.

As for the other comment, I am still working on what many people (especially on this forum!) consider basic dexes. I can see why it's important to have professional shredders give my bag a thumbs up, hense sending out tester bags. Will do, but it may take a little while! But still, are flawless clippers/ATWs/pendulums characteristic of one who is a newbie? I would choose a better word: GUILTY!

Panda Licker · Post by **Panda Licker** » 24 Jul 2003 09:25

as long as the bag isnt the exact same shape as a freedom, then your in the clear. and as for them being hand sewn, i wouldnt hold that as a good characteristic of a sand bag. Humans screw up, and there is no way your stitches are going to be tighter than a machines. maybe you should consider getting a sewing machine if your want to continue making sand bags

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 24 Jul 2003 10:36

Guilty is a good thing to be for a while mez. And I must say flawless pendulums is quite an accomplishment. I just said that because when I was new, I liked dirtbags the best, then 6 panels made by the leader of the club, then revolutions, and now finally with my pro beginnings, 32 panels. Your abilities change a lot during the learning process and thus many parts of how a bag works may be positives at one point in your game, and negatives at others. I used to like dirtbags cause they flatened out, but now I DON'T like dirtbags for the same reason because they don't set straight. Opinions change, and since we all would aspire to be really good, having the opinion of one who is would definately be a good idea.

Who do you play with Mezza? Any names we would know? You might just be able to go use one of your own bags with someone and they'll like it without having to give them one.

ShredStylez · Post by **ShredStylez** » 24 Jul 2003 11:03

To tell you the truth a lot of people are starting to make sweet bags. Players that r wayyy more experienc3ed in the sport. Now i'm not dissing ur bags or anything but i think u better stick to making bags for your own benefit for the time being instead of trying to sell ur bag on a clustered market.

Alot of people r making nice 32's and i think it might be hard to sell ur Freedom rip-off thats lower quality.

Once again i'm not rippin u or your bags.

the Executioner · Post by **the Executioner** » 24 Jul 2003 17:24

[quote="Mezza550"]
"As far as a moral responsibility to Darryl... I would say that the majority of the responsibility if it exists at all would be a legal one. I'm sure that if a footbag pattern is legally copywritable then he's already got dibs on it. And if he doesn't, I'm not going to claim them! But if he does, then it might mean that I'll have to give up on the idea of selling them online."

If he does, then technically and legally you'll have to give up the idea
of using that pattern at all, and come up with something original on your own.

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 24 Jul 2003 19:08

ShredStylez wrote:To tell you the truth a lot of people are starting to make sweet bags. Players that r wayyy more experienc3ed in the sport. Now i'm not dissing ur bags or anything but i think u better stick to making bags for your own benefit for the time being instead of trying to sell ur bag on a clustered market.

Alot of people r making nice 32's and i think it might be hard to sell ur Freedom rip-off thats lower quality.

Once again i'm not rippin u or your bags.

Everyone is dead set on the idea that my bags are of lower quality! One of my goals when I set out to make my own bag for the first time was to make it better than the existing product. The other reason was to save money, but in reality I wouldn't shred with something worse than a Freedom.

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 24 Jul 2003 19:12

FootbagginBum wrote: Who do you play with Mezza? Any names we would know? You might just be able to go use one of your own bags with someone and they'll like it without having to give them one.

I don't usually shred with him, but I have played with Ethan Husted (aka Red) and I know he lives in Portland, so that might be arranged. Noah is another one who lives in Portland, I think he's on this board. The people I usually play with are people who probably don't know about this forum.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 24 Jul 2003 19:50

Some thoughts:

1. The more people that make footbags, the better.
2. Jane Jones was making excellent footbags before she was considered a top shredder. I`ve never played with him and I don`t know if he is a very good shredder, but that does not change the fact that Mike Wilson makes incredibly good footbags. That guy Shane in Colorado also made great bags, and I don`t recall him being guiltless (though I may be wrong on that). My point is, you don`t have to be guiltless, or even able to toe-stall to make a good footbag. Just ask all the Pakistani slave-children who make bags for Adidas.
3. I don`t think it`s illegal to use the same/similar design as Revolution bags. I`m pretty sure that pattern was around before them. Also, nobody claims that anybody`s 32 panel bags are copyright infringement of Carol`s work. If people think its disrespectful, thats another matter, but I highly doubt it is illegal.
4. Mezza, I too hate your avatar. But for that reason I sort of love it at the same time, and I liked your post selling the car with the expensive mileage.

5. My experience with revolution bags has been almost entirely positive. All my bags have maintained shape and weight for very long periods, and Ive only run into a couple bags which eventually became egg shaped (which could be the fault of the owner, mine have always been fine).

In closing, if you can make a bag that you like more than Daryl`s, go for it! Its also cool to play with things that you yourself made. In terms of market feasability...I`d say you probably wont get much business considering how cheap, reliable, and widespreadly popular Daryl`s bags are.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » 24 Jul 2003 20:29

C-Fan wrote: ...That guy Shane in Colorado also made great bags, and I don`t recall him being guiltless (though I may be wrong on that)...

I'm sure this Shane fellow makes excellent bags. You know who lives in Colorado and makes great bags? Shay.

SlapNut · Post by **SlapNut** » 24 Jul 2003 21:07

Who are Shay/Shane/whoever?
Oh and Daryl lives in CO and makes great bags too

Mezza550 · Post by **Mezza550** » 25 Jul 2003 18:12

Thanks for the tips and support C-Fan! I think your the first one who has outright and downright supported the idea of me making and selling my hacks. If I were one who had the ability to award props, props would be awarded to you.

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Your Opinions?

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