Jeremy from Australia wrote:
"One of the things that has really been bugging me at the moment is a lack of documents regarding how freestyle judging (apart from shred 30) really works. Yes I know the process, but what I don't know is how the scores are concieved. For example with last years worlds, Vasek scored higher than Ryan in the Artistic rating from all but one judge. Why was that? What were the judges taking into account? I'm not saying I disagree with the decision, I just want to understand how it was made. Infact I realise I don't even know what the difference between technical and artistic actually is. Most of what I could think of - really ended up being part of both - Even something like ability to play in time with the music can be scene as technical as well as artistic.
I would like to see a much more open judging system where each judge writes a small report on their decision - as well as knowing who the judges are, and what they are actually judging."
Then, Jeremy from Arizona (US) replied with:
"For the "report Idea," what about a comp. program that has a list of 20 statements that fully encompass all types of descriptors for routines. Individual judges choose (by highlighting) those statements which best describe the routine they just saw, and all others fall away. This would take no more than 20-30 seconds and would deliver a concise sumary of the statements that best described each player's performance.
EX: (out of 20 possible, choices)
string length- avg. btwn 5-10 contacts
string length- avg. btwn 11-20 contacts
string length- avg. btwn 21 or > contacts
~10-19 uniques
~20 -29 uniques
~30 or > uniques
seemed effortful
seemed effortless
interaction with crowd non-existant
some interaction with crowd
actively involved with the crowd
trick difficulty: below avg.
trick difficulty: avg.
trick difficulty: above avg.
trick difficulty: insanely difficult
linkage difficulty: below avg.
linkage difficulty: avg.
linkage difficulty: above avg.
linkage difficulty: insanely difficult
drops: 0
drops: 1-2
drops: 3-5
drops: 6 or >
Awe factor: not there
Awe factor: definitely awesome
Two sample "reports" to Describe Ryan's routine from 2003 worlds vs. Vasek's routine:
Ryan:
-string length- avg. btwn 11-20 contacts
-~20 -29 uniques
-seemed effortless
-some interaction with crowd
-trick difficulty: above avg.
-linkage difficulty: above avg.
-drops: 0
-Awe factor: definitely awesome
Vasek:
-string length- avg. btwn 11-20 contacts
-~30 or > uniques
-seemed effortless
-some interaction with crowd
-trick difficulty: insanely difficult
-linkage difficulty: insanely difficult
-drops: 0
-Awe factor: definitely awesome
By a simple comparison, Vasek Wins.
I think this "report" system could easily be incorporated into the judging of the freestyle finals routines. I believe that there are enough categories to properly distinguish each player's performance from any other player. It would however necessitate that each judge has a computer on which to make this "report."
Jeremy"
Please give us your opinions on how this system might be beneficial, what flaws it may have, and how to make it better. I am really interested in those opinions of experienced shredders who have competed before or who know the ins and outs of judging.
On Judging
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Senor Grommet
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On Judging
My name: Jeremy Mirken, AKA Chocolatey Shatner, AKA jerk enemy rim.
I kick it with trunk chef elf and liz luck key my.
I kick it with trunk chef elf and liz luck key my.
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wolfpac444
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I was thinking more like what they do in other sports: Something along these lines:
Ryan:
Very well choreographed, good variety, high diffilculty, drops were costly
Vasek
Very high diffilculty. Did not appear to be much choreography, really good variety - used both sides well. Needs to work on playing with the music more.
Ryan:
Very well choreographed, good variety, high diffilculty, drops were costly
Vasek
Very high diffilculty. Did not appear to be much choreography, really good variety - used both sides well. Needs to work on playing with the music more.
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King Monkey
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This is a good idea, it would provide more access for the average player to the world rankings system etc because many ppl dont get the chance to even be at a comp like that let alone compete
i like Mirkens system. it would need to remain fairly flexible for the judges, like not just give them like 3 descriptors for each aspect of the routine or something like that(not saying thats what u were saying Mr Mirken, im just saying it as a point), there needs to be ways to get down to fine details and things, esp when deciding between competitors like Vasek and Ryan etc
i like Mirkens system. it would need to remain fairly flexible for the judges, like not just give them like 3 descriptors for each aspect of the routine or something like that(not saying thats what u were saying Mr Mirken, im just saying it as a point), there needs to be ways to get down to fine details and things, esp when deciding between competitors like Vasek and Ryan etc
Ian Pritchard - http://www.ausfootbag.org
'People, just play Footbag and stop being dickheads!' - Michał Biarda
'People, just play Footbag and stop being dickheads!' - Michał Biarda
if i could make a suggestion it would be to not include anything about interaction with the crowd, it really bugs when we people stop their shred and stand there on stageand expect everyone to clap for them, its a footbag comp not a stage show, I want to see shred not toe stalls and applause, I think it has no bearing at all on the quality of the shred and should therefore not be taken into account in the score
just think when was the last time someone in the olymics say in figure skating you saw someone stop and wait for everyone to clap and then go on, it just doesnt happen and I think its kinda dumb that is seen as a good thing in footbag. If want to be a real sport we should act like a real sport rather then simple a stage performer.
just think when was the last time someone in the olymics say in figure skating you saw someone stop and wait for everyone to clap and then go on, it just doesnt happen and I think its kinda dumb that is seen as a good thing in footbag. If want to be a real sport we should act like a real sport rather then simple a stage performer.
Jon's FootBlog
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"It was clean enough to be thin..." - Andrew W.
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HackyRichard
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Um where do I start:
1/ It is a 2 minute routine, which implies choreography, this word is also associated with dancing, ice skating, gymnastics (etc etc), these are all performed in front of an audience (including judges if in a competition setting).
2/ The person isn't doing this just for themselves, otherwise they'd just stay at home and perform for themselves in front of a camera or a mirror (or both is they what to be clever about it), they are showing that they can perform in front of others ...
3/ I think a routine is in essence a person trying to communicate an idea/theme/interpretation of the music through the medium of freestyle footbag (in this instance), communication is a two way path (if it's good open communication not g.w bush government<=>general public communication), so it would be very closed if the person performing didn't allow the audience to give some communication back to them. Your ice skating example was an interesting one, but I think you'll find that although the skater doesn't [necessarily] come to a grinding halt, there are [generally] moments in their performance that allow the audience to give their feedback.
4/ You mentioned shred all the way through the first part of your post, shred is only part of a good routine it is not the routine itself. That's why they have shred30, guarantee there aren't any toe stall pauses over here ...
I'm hoping this doesn't come off as patronising or [insert appropriate similar meaning word found in a thesaurus], I think it was the repeating "shred, shred , shred" theme that your post seemed to blurt out at this early hour of the morning (5:30 - 6am) that got me so I had to say my 2 cents worth (about 1 cent US, not sure what that would be canadian).
Quick summary:
- Routines are performed in front of an audience (including the judges),
- A routine is communicating something via the use of freestyle footbag to the above mentioned audience
- Seems logical to allow full and open two communication with audience (e.g slight pause to let crowd react)
- Shred is a component of a routine it is not the routine itself.
- Want pure uninterrupted shred => shred30
And that is how you turn a simple reply into a mini essay
at least I haven't totally wasted my university education, or have I
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v
1/ It is a 2 minute routine, which implies choreography, this word is also associated with dancing, ice skating, gymnastics (etc etc), these are all performed in front of an audience (including judges if in a competition setting).
2/ The person isn't doing this just for themselves, otherwise they'd just stay at home and perform for themselves in front of a camera or a mirror (or both is they what to be clever about it), they are showing that they can perform in front of others ...
3/ I think a routine is in essence a person trying to communicate an idea/theme/interpretation of the music through the medium of freestyle footbag (in this instance), communication is a two way path (if it's good open communication not g.w bush government<=>general public communication), so it would be very closed if the person performing didn't allow the audience to give some communication back to them. Your ice skating example was an interesting one, but I think you'll find that although the skater doesn't [necessarily] come to a grinding halt, there are [generally] moments in their performance that allow the audience to give their feedback.
4/ You mentioned shred all the way through the first part of your post, shred is only part of a good routine it is not the routine itself. That's why they have shred30, guarantee there aren't any toe stall pauses over here ...
I'm hoping this doesn't come off as patronising or [insert appropriate similar meaning word found in a thesaurus], I think it was the repeating "shred, shred , shred" theme that your post seemed to blurt out at this early hour of the morning (5:30 - 6am) that got me so I had to say my 2 cents worth (about 1 cent US, not sure what that would be canadian).
Quick summary:
- Routines are performed in front of an audience (including the judges),
- A routine is communicating something via the use of freestyle footbag to the above mentioned audience
- Seems logical to allow full and open two communication with audience (e.g slight pause to let crowd react)
- Shred is a component of a routine it is not the routine itself.
- Want pure uninterrupted shred => shred30
And that is how you turn a simple reply into a mini essay
at least I haven't totally wasted my university education, or have I
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v
Richard Pearce
thank you richard! whoever sponsored your college education: tell them it was worth it!
in one point i agree with jon however it bugs me too that most freestylers come to an abrupt stop in their routines at some random point, look at the audience and raise their hands, trying to animate the audience to clap. THAT is not what i would call presentation, it's more like anti presentation because most of the time it looks really silly. but if you timed those breaks right and executed them as part of your routine...
in one point i agree with jon however it bugs me too that most freestylers come to an abrupt stop in their routines at some random point, look at the audience and raise their hands, trying to animate the audience to clap. THAT is not what i would call presentation, it's more like anti presentation because most of the time it looks really silly. but if you timed those breaks right and executed them as part of your routine...
