New Moves

mc · Post by mc » 14 Dec 2008 18:39

doooope.

I should have hit that by now... guess I'll have to make it a barroque...

mattbeall · Post by **mattbeall** » 14 Dec 2008 19:09

Ok, forgive the ignorance. I play more than I read about this stuff...

Is a shooting set symposium stepping nuclear set, or is it just stepping nuclear?

Regardless...symposium stepping nuclear set ss symposium eggbeater.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 14 Dec 2008 19:21

mattbeall wrote:Ok, forgive the ignorance. I play more than I read about this stuff...

Great!

Shooting is not symp stepping. Really cool trick. And hard.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 14 Dec 2008 19:36

Um, actually shooting IS symp stepping nuclear. Also known as pogo nuclear.

mattbeall wrote: ...symposium stepping nuclear set ss symposium eggbeater.

So what Matt hit is a shooting ss symp egg. Shooting ss egg is known as "redwetter," so you could say Matt hit backside redwetter, or alpha gamma shooting ss egg. The change in footwork to have the eggbeater be symposium is very impressive. I'd love to see video of this.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 14 Dec 2008 19:50

C-Fan wrote:Um, actually shooting IS symp stepping nuclear. Also known as pogo nuclear.

mc · Post by mc » 14 Dec 2008 19:58

daaaamn!!! vid, son. vid.

that goes for you too, Aaron.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 14 Dec 2008 20:54

C-Fan wrote:Um, actually shooting IS symp stepping nuclear. Also known as pogo nuclear.

mattbeall wrote: ...symposium stepping nuclear set ss symposium eggbeater.
So what Matt hit is a shooting ss symp egg. Shooting ss egg is known as "redwetter," so you could say Matt hit backside redwetter, or alpha gamma shooting ss egg. The change in footwork to have the eggbeater be symposium is very impressive. I'd love to see video of this.

Move List wrote:Redwetter (ADD 7)
Shooting Eggbeater
Stepping Paradox Atomic Illusioning Legover
Clip > Op In (DEX) > Op Out (DEX)(PDX) >> Op Out (DEX)(XDEX) > Op Out (DEX) > Same Toe (DEL)

According to this Redwetter is a 7 add trick without any symposiums in it. It reinforces my memory that stepping paradox atomic is shooting, while pogo paradox atomic is symposium shooting. So, my understanding is that Matt hit a variation of Redwetter with an additional 2 adds thrown on it. Which wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Please feel free to correct me or inform me of the definitive explanation of shooting.

Matt K · Post by **Matt K** » 14 Dec 2008 21:28

It's a misprint. Stepping nuclear would be hard enough to do just the set, let alone a symp egg

zeroman13 · Post by **zeroman13** » 14 Dec 2008 21:37

Shooting is hard. And anyone that tries it, there's a high possibility that the set's pulled.

I hit shooting butter once, a year ago or so, and I could probably bet you anything that it was a pulled set on the stepping.

This gives me idea's on how to hit this set.....

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 14 Dec 2008 21:38

Matt K wrote:It's a misprint. Stepping nuclear would be hard enough to do just the set, let alone a symp egg

I saw him hit pogo nuclear paradox eggbeater on Friday, after first trying that set that session. It would be consistent behavior for Matt to then go ahead and push it to the next level the first chance he got. I wonder if there was a misprint though, as that was quite a mouthful of technical stuffs.

I'm just trying to figure out if he jumped his 7 add ceiling and went straight up to 9.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 14 Dec 2008 22:12

OK, just for the record, shooting set is pogo nuclear. Even though pogo is technically symposium, nobody gives it a body add, because it doesn't really add any difficulty, unlike most symposium. So pogo pdx mirage (pogo style blur) is only given 4 adds, even though it is technically blur but with the first dex symp. Similarly, shooting set is generally counted as a 3 add set, since the pogo isn't given symposium.

Clean shooting is possible, but very few people do it cleanly. This is probably another reason it is often not given a body add.

One last thing: shooting ss egg starts on one foot and ends on the other. Shooting pdx egg starts and ends on the same foot. I hope this helps us all be on the same page.

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 14 Dec 2008 22:15

Thanks for clearing that up. Bizarre about pogo not getting the body add. It makes the argument that adds describe number of components (as opposed to dictate value) a little more of a strain.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 14 Dec 2008 22:18

Dada curve has 5 add components to it, but only gets credit for 4. I think pogo not getting a body is similar to symp butterfly not getting a body add.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 14 Dec 2008 23:17

I'm a little confused about this shooting symp egg. Can you please tell us which foot the bag starts and ends on?

Thanks.

mattbeall · Post by **mattbeall** » 15 Dec 2008 07:21

It's not a misprint. I'm pretty sure Ken's got everything right on the money so far.

So, what I hit sounds like: shooting ss symp. eggbeater. The eggbeater part is confusing to me, a bit. If I had just done a stepping set and then that same eggbeater, it would have been paradox. BUT, I think that the nuclear part of the shooting set would switch it around so that it would not be paradox anymore. Right? Haha, confusing.

Ian's also right. I hit the normal version with him the other day, and decided to add an extra symposium to it yesterday. I've been able to hit beta bedwetter for a while now, so I thought I should be able to get this guy. I did almost kill myself trying. Haha.

Edit: And Ken's right about the eggbeater part. It ends on the opposite foot as the setting foot. It's just not pdx anymore because of the nuclear. I THINK...

Ian Brill · Post by **Ian Brill** » 15 Dec 2008 11:33

My understanding is that if bedwetter gets a paradox then so does your move. If anything, the nuclear element should ensure that you get a paradox. You can factor out a paradox illusion from the trick.

And still have a trick with change remaining

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 15 Dec 2008 12:16

Ian Brill wrote:My understanding is that if bedwetter gets a paradox then so does your move. )

This brings up an interesting discussion that we had on the old footbag.org mailing list at the turn of the century. This really belongs in its own thread, but just to sum it up quickly:

1. Imagine the trick pdx torque. The torque dex gets a pdx because you have to double hip pivot to get the dex.
2. Now imagine pdx tapping torque. By Ian's logic, this trick is just pdx torque with an extra dex in front of it. While you still have to double hip pivot (somewhere in the trick) to hit it, some would argue that after the first dex, the torque is now "near," and therefore doesn't deserve paradox. Indeed, if you were to nuke and then torque with the other leg, that is much more paradox, and gets an xdex for the extra pivot.

The question then is: which dex in nuke ss torque gets paradox? Do both of them?

I'm not sure this was ever officially resolved, and the introduction of x-dex into the discussion makes it even more confusing (tap doesn't get xdex, but tapping illusion does). The way I look at these tricks, is that I'm willing to give them either a paradox or an x-dex, but not both. I don't even want to start to get into why.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, unless its hit in comp, and even then it doesn't really matter (something like a 2 point difference in shred30, assuming its in an entirely unique shred30). What's important is that it's a cool trick.

And to get us back on topic, here's a new trick of mine (which I think is thin, but I want us to get back on topic):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA9de7O1RIw&fmt=18[/youtube]

zeroman13 · Post by **zeroman13** » 15 Dec 2008 13:17

Props Ken, I tried that once and it hurt

From yesterday;

Muted Nuke Clip

g00d33 · Post by **g00d33** » 15 Dec 2008 15:17

Rev Swirling toe bs

brianbear · Post by **brianbear** » 15 Dec 2008 15:29

niiice, i automatically want to do rev-up instead of rev swirl toe, but can't quite hit that yet either...
oh well!
pixie refraction.
refraction-->zooming ss refraction rpt. it looks pretty sweet.

edit: almost forgot... swirling rev. whirling set

i've hit it to ss toe, and ss osis (which looks like a swirling symple dyno)