Why Lavers??

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 24 Jul 2010 16:10

Jeremy wrote:This topic is fairly amusing.

When I started playing footbag I had crappy puma running shoes and a guatamalan crocheted footbag. With this combination I managed to learn all the basics. I then managed to get some better footbags. Without any kind of modified shoes, or shoes that were any good for anything, I managed to get to the stage where I could hit a 5 add trick, and a fairly good range of 3 and 4 add tricks. At this stage I doubt I could string together 5 tricks though.

At this point I attended my first tournament - the NSW Footbag Championships in the summer of 2002/2003 (our summers go across years in the Southern Hemisphere). Here I got to play with the best footbaggers in Australia, and it was essentially the first time I'd played with other freestylers. As I recall I learnt 9 new tricks on the two days of footbag. One of the comments that many of these other footbaggers told me was that many of the tricks I was dropping, I would hit if I had lavers. It turned out one of them was my shoe size. I had footed the move "assassin" - pixie ducking mirage - about 10 times in a row, and so he gave me his shoes (and by gave, I mean gave to keep) and within minutes, as soon as I'd figured out the differences in the shoes, I hit the trick.

At the point where I was given my first pair of Lavers I couldn't play tiltless - that is to say that I couldn't string together 2 add tricks for more than a couple of contacts. Within 4 months of getting my first pair of lavers I was playing completely guiltless (3 add tricks and up).

These days I don't use Lavers and I have no intention of going back to them. However there's no doubt in my mind that moving to some kind of dedicated footbag shoe makes an enormous difference to your game. I say this as somebody who is perhaps the biggest skeptic of everything on this forum, who has held world records in footbag, who has been playing for almost 10 years, who has won countless national titles and who cannot help but analyse everything in my life, to the point where I could write you a 3000 word essay on the best part of your foot to stall the bag when you do a clipper, and how some places are better than others for different moves.

So to answer the question; "why lavers?" it's because they make doing freestyle footbag significantly easier than not wearing lavers (unless you have one of the few alternatives). After that, it really depends on your personal values. Do you want to get better at freestyle footbag? How much is it worth to you? Even if you got Lavers, would you put in the hours and hours of practice it takes to get better?

Reading through the answers, people's inability to understand what you're saying aside, I feel like people have answered your question very well (some a lot better than others). If, having read the discussion to this point you're still not convinced about Lavers then I'd have to say that you don't share the values of this forum, and it probably would be a waste of time and money to get Lavers.

On the other hand, if the issue is just money, then wait, save and sacrifice. The reason I waited until somebody gave me a pair of lavers was because I wasn't convinced that they would make any difference (like you), and because I couldn't afford it. However after playing in a pair for myself I realised just how important good shoes are. Unfortunately the pair I had been given were already on their last legs. Around this time, being still a high school student, I had a job working as a farm labourer crawling along the ground picking up tulip bulbs. The very first thing I bought from this job was a case of beer, but the second thing was Lavers.

Footbag has been one of the most important things in my life. I've made great friends through it, it's helped me through the worst periods of my life, it's currently an important source of income, and it's taught me about hard work, discipline and their rewards.

So the way I see it your question has been answered. You just now need to decide whether you can see enough value in footbag to get yourself a pair of lavers. It doesn't have to be right now, but you can decide to save up and buy them when you can afford it. Or, if footbag isn't important to you, you can not get them and continue at your current level. That's definitely the easy option, and I'm sure that having never performed in front of 13,000 people or hit nemesis for the first time, you can't really feel what you're missing enough, and it would be an understandable choice to make.

Dude, did you not read the last page or any of the last few pages? There's a pair of lavers on their way to my house already. This has been resolved for days now. Thanks for typing that wall of text, I guess, but it was kinda pointless.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 24 Jul 2010 16:23

Ok good. I gave up reading after about 3 pages. I enjoy writing anyway

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 24 Jul 2010 20:24

Awesome!

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 25 Jul 2010 02:52

Only read the first page of this thread, so apologies if this has been posted already.

Footbagger007 in reference to lavers wrote: Most people use them because they require a lot less modification than the gunit and clima.

I played in Lavers for 7 years, and have played in G-Units for the last 6. Lavers are WAY harder to modify than g-units. With lavers you cut out the insides, and the material is soft so it's very easy to over cut or cut too much. With G-Units you just cut out the outer layer, and it's a lot harder to accidentally cut through fabric you don't want to. I can mod G-Units in a fourth of the time than Lavers.

Oh, and pretty much everything Zac said in the first page was right.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 25 Jul 2010 03:00

Jeremy wrote:Ok good. I gave up reading after about 3 pages. I enjoy writing anyway

That's okay, you don't really want to read it anyway, it turned into a gigantic flame war.

Corey · Post by **Corey** » 25 Jul 2010 04:23

C-Fan wrote:Only read the first page of this thread, so apologies if this has been posted already.

Footbagger007 in reference to lavers wrote: Most people use them because they require a lot less modification than the gunit and clima.
I played in Lavers for 7 years, and have played in G-Units for the last 6. Lavers are WAY harder to modify than g-units. With lavers you cut out the insides, and the material is soft so it's very easy to over cut or cut too much. With G-Units you just cut out the outer layer, and it's a lot harder to accidentally cut through fabric you don't want to. I can mod G-Units in a fourth of the time than Lavers.

I didnt mod the insides of my lavers only the toe. Are you talking about leather lavers?

Ramen God · Post by **Ramen God** » 25 Jul 2010 04:49

Magus86 wrote: There's a pair of lavers on their way to my house already. This has been resolved for days now. Thanks for typing that wall of text, I guess, but it was kinda pointless.

I didn't read some of the middle pages either, and was about to write "You know, the time wasted on this topic could have been spent working to get money to buy lavers." But it's good its kind of been resolved. Most of the topic wasn't even about lavers.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 25 Jul 2010 06:34

Ramen God wrote:
Magus86 wrote: There's a pair of lavers on their way to my house already. This has been resolved for days now. Thanks for typing that wall of text, I guess, but it was kinda pointless.
I didn't read some of the middle pages either, and was about to write "You know, the time wasted on this topic could have been spent working to get money to buy lavers." But it's good its kind of been resolved. Most of the topic wasn't even about lavers.

I suppose that's true, but regardless of whether I had money or not, I wasn't prepared to spend money on them without trying them first. Plus, I'd been working all week anyway.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 25 Jul 2010 09:36

Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust wow.

FIRST, props to Damon for having once been involved in several flame wars here on Modified, but turning it around here and showing what a damn kind soul he can be.

Magus, I dig the getup. I've seen that photo before, so it's cool to have an idea who the person is in reality. NES ftw.

This is a pretty solid and welcoming community you've stumbled upon. I understand that your background may motivate your cautious philosophy of "I will show you respect as soon as you show me some" (given the understatement of the century earlier in this thread), but you gotta admit that you run the risk of appearing needlessly defensive.

If you ever consider attending a footbag event, why not switch that philosophy to "I will cease showing you respect once you have shown that you have none for me"? Just a small optimistic twist, yea? Despite any feelings you may have derived from this thread, if you do get the chance to meet some freestylers, you can probably go in assuming you're going to make some friends.

Quick related note: I played in shoes similar to Damon's in his "no stinkin' lavers" video until about 10 months in, and didn't consider switching until I'd tried Lavers for myself at an event in Calgary. I used Lavers or played barefoot for several years. I play less than I used to nowadays, but when I do it's either Quantums or barefoot.

Cheers,

Kevin Regamey

Ramen God · Post by **Ramen God** » 26 Jul 2010 04:30

qphox wrote: NES ftw.

Agreed.

Zeke · Post by **Zeke** » 26 Jul 2010 07:23

Lavers suck for net.

Hi guys, just wanted to chime (chimp?) in. Miss y'all!

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 26 Jul 2010 12:40

Okay, I just got the lavers in the mail today. Holy shit, they got here quickly, and holy shit, they're SOOO different from skater shoes. I just screwed around with them for about 10 minutes on my deck after getting home from work. I've noticed several things... The material is thin as shit compared to skater shoes, which pictures could never quite show me, at least not the full extent of the difference. The material has a really nice texture on it that's GREAT for stalling a footbag. In fact, for the first time ever, I did a toe stall with my right foot. I tried doing an inside stall, but due to shitty balance and lack of technique, I still can't do it, even with lavers. I need to rethink how I make my footbags because I'd been making them quite heavy, and due to the extra thick padding of my vans and the bounce it provides, it was no problem to kick a heavy ass foootbag high into the air. However, it's a little more difficult to kick now due to the lack of padding.

The shoes are surprisingly comfortable. I DO feel a little bit of a bulge in the arch of my foot. It's not painful, but it is slightly uncomfortable because I'm not used to it at all. I'm still a little skeptical at just HOW much better this will make me at footbag simply because of being fat and not incredibly flexible, plus having no idea what "proper" form is. However, I definitely see an instant improvement. Thank you so much, Flex. You kick ass.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 26 Jul 2010 13:25

So I guess the question is........

Were the members of this forum correct with this statement, "Just get them and see?" LOL

I laugh, 1.) Because I can't believe how fast those shoes got to you, and 2.) Because you now have them and can make assessments on your own, and 3.) I gotta have cape!

Enjoy my friend. Now you'll just have to get old like me and start using things like clipper rails.

ps. Can anyone say 9 pages!?!

~peace

Post by **Zac Miley** » 26 Jul 2010 13:34

Whew. Glad I wasn't wrong.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 26 Jul 2010 15:06

FlexThis wrote: So I guess the question is........

Were the members of this forum correct with this statement, "Just get them and see?" LOL

I laugh, 1.) Because I can't believe how fast those shoes got to you, and 2.) Because you now have them and can make assessments on your own, and 3.) I gotta have cape!

Enjoy my friend. Now you'll just have to get old like me and start using things like clipper rails.

ps. Can anyone say 9 pages!?!

~peace

Yes they were, and you will get your cape in due time, my friend...

So after some more playing around with the lavers, I discovered I can stall the bag on both feet and pass it back and forth repeatedly between both feet. I can't do this with any kind of speed or fluidity, but I can do it for the first time.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 27 Jul 2010 00:51

Magus86 wrote:So after some more playing around with the lavers, I discovered I can stall the bag on both feet and pass it back and forth repeatedly between both feet. I can't do this with any kind of speed or fluidity, but I can do it for the first time.

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 27 Jul 2010 02:49

Ramen God · Post by **Ramen God** » 27 Jul 2010 04:29

Ramen God wrote:I guess you should just try them out, and see what they are like. I didn't think there was anything special about lavers until I got a pair.

My first post here was right all, I guess!

Magus86 · Post by **Magus86** » 27 Jul 2010 05:57

So now, seeing how thin these shoes are, I wonder wtf could possibly be removed from them that would leave me with an in tact shoe. There's like nothing to them. The only shoes I know of that are as thin or thinner are converse all stars and those shoes for wearing in the water.

Post by **Zac Miley** » 27 Jul 2010 07:22

There are two layers of material - 'mesh' and 'canvas'. The mesh is on the outside, and that is the material that you want to keep. The canvas is on the inside and is the thicker material. If you're going to take the canvas out, there are several tutorials in bags and equipment.

Honestly, it doesn't affect the integrity of the shoe that much. Most lavers can last people about a year, if you play with them until they're falling apart.