Making bags: instructions/tutorials

[lotus]

no i mean to go backward over the stitching already there.
like in between them?

perhaps you backstitch because you use sand as filler?

most stitchers here on modified would rarely, or ever, use sand in their fill (for the multitude of reasons that sand does not play well) ... you don't need to backstitch when using solid filler and the right thread and knotting tecniques.

[Wheel333]

Thank's Matt, some of that really clicked as I sat here stitching. Golden nuggets sensei obrigado fantastico

[Wasabi]

I agree with whatever Matt just contributed into the thread. My method is just like how he described his, but with a little variation.

I single thread with Ribstitch cord. It's a strong cord that I got from Ben Roscoe. It's a very good thread for footbags, but knotting the thread to the needle can sometimes be difficult, since the knots bulge out much more than conventional thread and floss (the needle head isn't big enough to accomodate for this, making the sewing process problematic).

My technique in stitching is simple, and difficult at the same time. Simple in that repetition and complete evenness is what I usually strive for whenever I am stitching any bag. How it is difficult I will try to explain: instead of doubling-up my stitches on the hexes (the bleedhole stitch), I focus on double stitching the first and last hole of every given side of the pentagon. Meaning, each side of the pentagon, along with the hexes, is looped with two extra stitches over both hex and pent to tightly secure the gather and panels in place. The most difficult part of this process is beginning the first stitch and ending it, since how I secure that first stitch uses a unique knot, and knotting the complete pentagon utilizes some muscle work since the gather is tight and threading through stitches to knot is difficult with ribstitch cord.

Also, for my method, to make the panels conventionally even and sharp looking, not only do I have to concentrate on evenness, but I have to be careful the holes that end each pentagon side, since those are the areas that I will loop and tighten. This also elevates the difficulty in finishing my bags with the loose stitch method. Sometimes, I would need the aid of tweezers to make the final knot. I then burn the excess thread into a bulb to finalize it all.

After finishing, I take each side of a finish pentagon and stretch it out, so that the gather is distributed evenly and the stitches loosened in the middle. The amount of pull is dependent as to whether I am making a loose or tight gathered bag.

This style of sewing is good for 14s and 32s, but I've found a lot of problems with it for 12s. People who have sewn 12s would know. However, the finished project for 12s is simply divine imo.

I don't remember my template sizes, but I have a shit load of templates for all kinds of sizes.

I sometimes make sandfilled bags for hackers that request them.

[mosher]

Haha! I have TOO much to say!

Some/most of what Matt said he does is basically what I taught him to do and I think he makes a fine hack.

The double-stitch thing is a concept I started doing waaay back when I started making 32's. It was originally that I had 3 double stitches (by double stitch we mean that you go through the last hole you went through once more to "lock in" the previous segment) at each pent corner, one at the 6th hole, one in the hex/hex hole and then one more in the first hole of the next edge.
At first it was because I didn't know how to not make the ugly bunched up corners and I thought of this as a way to separate the forces of the gathers.. if you follow.

So eventually I moved on from this and ditched the extra stitches in the 1st and 6th hole but I have kept the extra loop in the hex/hex edge. Instead of gathering each pentagon after having stitched all the edges I stitch an edge>gather>extra loop to seal it in>into 1st hole of next edge.


As a side note, I belieeeeve that Abshire does this on the 1st or 6th hole, I dissected one once and I am pretty sure I saw that. Not to say that is what he does now, this was an old bag I was looking at.

When I teach people to stitch I teach them the traditional way and mention the way I do it more as an aside rather than the path they should necessarily take, since I have wound up at what I do after trying lots of other things. And like.. there are SO many ways to make a nice bag!




I think I should finally make a tutorial on my panel cutting technique. And I really don't think it uses 1.5 times the material, maybe like 20% moreish.

I will make a little video clip and post it, I think more people would get into stitching if they could get past the wall of getting the materials to do it and subsequently turning those into panels without too much work.


It's cool to see so much talk about footbag making stuff. It's too bad it's awfully hard to communicate stitching stuff in words. I really do love seeing people stitch in person, some people do it so weird! haha

I gotta go finish a bag for Jeremy O'Wheelj! He ordered a bag from me! Cool! (I have taken over a month to make this bag
)

[Wasabi]

I've heard Flix Zenger doubles up on his stitches, but where I have no particular clue. I don't know if he does it on the hex/hex section, or on pent corners.

[mc]

I have a Felix ca. January 2005 with a busted panel. I will take a picture of the inside and post it.

also, I tried to resist posting this, but I can't help it... Tom, you didn't teach me to stitch, Peng did. You stitched by yourself, and offered a few words here and there, but you mostly kept quiet. I learned to double my hex-hex stitches from cutting one of her bags open, and switched from double to single floss based on recommendation from her and DC. I picked my own panel dimensions, and have come to my opinion on the proper bite from my own experimentation.

However, I will say this. The panel cutting method, which has largely helped me deal with the fact that I am impatient, and the motivation and desire to start stitching in the first place were all you, and I appreciate that. So, I really have a lot to thank you for, but my technique isn't one of those things.

anyway, I'm curious to see other people's stitching specs and approaches. Especially those of talented stitchers who do things differently than me.

[mosher]

Meh, fine, you learned from someone that taught you what I taught them.

Either way I deserve credit for everything ever, I invented stitching.

I guess I replied the way I did because I saw all these people taking credit for things I came up with.

After making that post last night I got inspired to stitch and finished the bag for Jeremy finally.


There's some things about stitching I REALLY hate and I fear that they will push me away forever.

[mosher]

Blech, your post is really bugging me matt.

I am trying to just say whatever and not care but sometimes we butt heads.

I didn't mean to make it sound like you had no say in any of the things you choose to do in making a bag.




But at the same time I feel like I've gotten next to zero thanks for teaching like.. a third of the current stitchers to stitch!



Bleh, anytime I go to type something eight thousand different things flood to me and and nothing makes it past the bottleneck.

Sometimes I just want to fuck off and not care about shit.

[Wasabi]

I'll admit something as well: I kind of, sort of, maybe, actually stole some stitching clues from you, Tom, at GRASS '06. I think it was when you were nearly finishing the bag for Bevier then, and when you stepped out to get a beer, I took a peek and saw the way you double stitched your panels together. I only saw the pent corners being looped around, but not the hexes. It stuck with me since. Like, "that's how Tom stitches, I got to push myself so that I can try that method too!" and whatever.

Yes Tom, you're actually the benefactor of how I sew bags today!
Of course, Pengpeng was one that gave me a step-by-step breakdown on how to sew panels together properly. :-p

[Pengu]

It's true, I just taught Matt what I was shown by Tom. In fact, there have been countless people whom Tom has taught to stitch, either directly or indirectly. Most of them are great stitchers now. Just to name a few:
Vida
Me
Josiah Digges
Matt Cross
Aidan Clemente

Beyond that, the kingstonfootbag tutorial probably sparked quite a bit of stitching prowess too.

We give you credit for that Tom. Don't be upset. You've sparked a revolution that made good bags abundant. You yourself know this, so what does it matter what people do or say? You know people who've met you in real life love you and we know you're trying really hard to make a difference in footbag. Keep going! Don't waste your time getting angry over semantics and words. <3

[mc]

hey, I don't see it as butting heads.

I'm right and you're wrong, what's there to butt heads about?



Seriously, though, although I'll deny up and down all day that you taught me to stitch, I'll never ever deny what an asset you've been to the stitching community, as an innovator, producer, teacher, and an inspiration. Those are some things I've never been an all-star at, regarding stitching (or anything).

do you think there's anyone out there who would argue with that (the part about you, not me)?

If so, then that person is either very foolish or very out of touch, or both.

An addition to my stitching theory: If how you learned to stitch had something to do with Tom Mosher, you're probably off to a great start.

[MrUnderArmour]

im think iss it better for a two or one stitch on a 32?

[Benzilla]

I have 7 stitches per side with a single thread.

[mosher]

Pengpeng, thanks alot for being the person that knows me the best, I appreciate how you often know just the way to redirect my passion.

I think there are a few more stitchers I've taught that are worth mentioning, such as Mathias L-S (who then taught Paul Cronjaeger and Yves Kreil, the new superstar stitcher from Berlin) and my KFM buddies John Bagi and Derrick Ogden who are making killler bags now.

And Matt, maybe I was just under the influence, I guess I thought I had more to say in the teaching of you than you seem to remember. I guess I do recall that your gaze/focus was mainly aimed at Peng and I was stitching as you mentioned. Mostly I was letting Peng narrate the lesson that I know so well and chiming in when I thought that there was some real important bit that needed mentioning.

Annnnyways, we all make sweet bags now and that's all that matters.

I think what's so cool is that we are all making these snowflakes, these bags that by their nature are ALL different! There are so many variables that it is completely impossible to ever make the exact same bag twice, exciting!

I like that this set of variables is our canvas, you pick the material, the panel dimensions, what thread to use, where to place your holes and what to fill it with. From there you choose how to treat it and that largely determines how long it will last.

What a sweet sport we've found!

We can all make the CORE piece of equipment for our most beloved sport!

im think iss it better for a two or one stitch on a 32?

I am not exactly sure what you mean by this, do you mean one thread or doubled up thread or do you mean something more stitch-specific?

Also, I noticed in the 'bags ive stitched' thread that you posted some bags you made. The lower number of panel bags looked really good and I know what is wrong with the 32.

The dimensions are inappropriate, to be direct. To make a 'traditional' 32 that doesn't require that you stitch the hex/hex edge you have to make the pentagons considerably larger and make the hexagons into (effectively) truncated triangles. Have one side of the hexagon be the same length (or sliiightly longer, though I find that only leads to inconsistencies) as the pentagon edge length and have the shorter side be 30 - 45 % of the pentagon edge length. And tweaking these ratios will give you different style bags, but you really don't want the short side of the hexes to be any more that 45%-ish to make sure some important footbag physics happens.

The reason you don't have to stitch the hex/hex edge when you use panels of this sort of dimension is because the hexes pressing up to eachother at the corners is all that is required to keep the filler from spilling out. You don't have to stitch those edges! You just stitch around a pentagon, gather as much as you like and then tie off and then add another pentagon to that flower and continue like that from there till the end. With this style (the 'normal' style) you should be able to make a bag in 3- 5 hours or so.



I am gonna go cut out a bag!

[MrUnderArmour]

i read this post before school now im think of it all day

i feel like a retard now that i know this thanks verymuch

[Benzilla]

Hey i stitched 60 bags until i realized my stitches were totally wrong. But im happy i eventually learned it.

[MrUnderArmour]

so when you do it like that is there any restrictions on the template??
what size do you use...using th generator on here..?

[Muffinman]

Your KFM tutorial certainly helped me get started, Tom.
I didn't understand enough at the time to really make use of it, but it certainly got me started. I don't know if you taught Eskimo Joe, but I probably got the most help from him, even though I misinterpreted a lot that he told me ('cause, yeah, it's so hard to explain stitching over the internet. Even with pictures!)

I think I stitch KIND of like Eskimo Joe, but his hexes are a bit bigger, my pents are a bit poofier, and his stitches are kinda...ABABABA, whereas mine are, like, AAAAAAA.
And he's obviously more awesome.

[Guest_1]

backstitching is for losers

A running stitch is the way to go

one thread and three stitches per hex/pent owns

[Muffinman]

Backstitching does sound really dumb.
Like, your bag would take twice as long to work-in and probably never work-in as nicely before it started getting holes.