Rant about "how to judge a routine"

[Tsiangkun]

This edition will have the current official freestyle rules in it - ie. the rules that haven't been used since 2001.

I would be so pissed if my money was going towards printing outdated rules.

Why print a rule book that doesn't address any of the needs for incorporating XDEX, XSPIN, a change in uniques recognition, or even the shred events ? It's my understanding that Shred30 is not an officially recognized event, nor is BigTrick and BigThree.

Shouldn't your money go towards making the sport more of what you want the sport to be, instead of wasting your money to make the sport what it was in 1995 ?

[FlexThis]

Talking SHRED

Footbag Net!!!! Is killing Freestyle.

When I first learned about freestyle it was at the same time as net. I thought net was cool at first. I played it a few times, it was fun to play. The guys that introduced me to footbag were net players so more than half the bags they owned were hard as a rock ass net bags.

The inventor of freestyle is a net player. More than half (could be wrong) of the 'Powers that Be' behind footbag are also net players.

It is pretty damn easy to establish footbag net as a sport by simply ripping off volleyball and tennis.

It is a completely different animal to classify freestyle SHRED.

IMO (could be way off base, Jeremy would know) the net players are killing freestyle cause they don't have the same passion towards it that a group of shredders would have.

I also think that since footbags birth, it has been net dominated so the rules have not changed all that much, because tennis and volleyball haven't changed.

As we see freestyle slowly starting to over take net, there screams the need for revision based on what freestylers feel is important. Not the inventors (tradition ridden with net philosophies) of the sport, but actual participating players that DON'T play net.

Basically I'd like to see each and every move catergorized by component. Every link catergorized by transition. Every infinite possibility generated and rated.

We live in the age of technology yet are not embracing that technology. I have been screaming this forever. TIVO and a computer will solve all your SHRED related needs.

If we can create databases of freestyle videos, or hell forums for discussion, we should easily be able to create a database of tricks, links, difficulty, components, etc... Have someone like Cameron to write us some code and WALLA a measurable system based on freestyle, not gymnastics or adds or artistic merit. Just straight up technical skill and ability.

That's my dream

Just my Opinion

Talking Routines

Routines also need an overhaul. There needs to be a system for measurment that doesn't rely on a card. Some of the best ideas I have heard are pre-determined routines that are submitted by the player and that routine is ranked. Then judges simply subtract from the total possible score, rather than making marks, trying to remember, etc...

If the routine is laid out in black & white, then it is a matter of checking things off as they are hit. If the routine deviates from the original, then additional deductions can take place.

Just more Opinions.

~peace
Damon

[Jeremy]

Yeah some interesting things to discuss!

@ Cameron: The money being used for the new printing edition comes from selling past editions - it doesn't come from membership or donation money at all.

Regarding Damon's point about net. And in some regards I think it's the reason why changes to the freestyle rules have taken so long - because the IFC and the top parts of the IFPA are all controlled by net people - there are freestylers but they are completely out numbered. In fact I think some of you may remember that I suggested freestyle try and split from net as much as possible once. However somebody pointed out to me that the reason for the net domination is because net players are simply more willing to be involved with the IFPA and with organising things. I am pretty sure that there are way more freestylers then net players in the world - so the willingness to be involved with the organising of the sport is even more disproportionate than the numbers show. Probably this is because many freestylers are young and experienced and maybe feel that there are people out there already doing what they think needs to be done. Anyway I now believe that the problem is that not enough freestylers try and be involved - rather than net dominating. Net dominates because not enough freestylers put their hands up - use their initiative and become involved.


The data base idea sounds awesome and also like a huge amount of work. It would be awesome to attempt though. I can imagine enourmas debates about what is harder out of drifter and dlo and other such stuff but it would be fun.

Regarding routines: What I'd like to eventually see is routines following the structure used in gymnastics or particularly figure skating. There would be particular components that need to be in the routine - covering a lot of the basic moves - whirls, drifters, stepping sets. etc. but there would still be some freedom and a more systematic scoring system - ie. drops would incur an automatic 1 point deduction or something similar. There would be no ranking system but just a points system. I can't really see this happening any time soon but I think it would be great if we used a system closer to what other much older and bigger sports of the same nature use.

[Tsiangkun]

Thanks for the correction Jeremy.

I still don't feel that the IFPA has a clear and transparent system where members can see what the IFPA is doing for the sport, net or freestyle. Certainly there is no public "Ask the IFPA" where members of the IFPA can appreciate the lethargic response to freestylers concerns. It's all done by email, and Jeremy has already stated that he needed to send five emails just to get a serious response.

Also, it's not so much that freestylers aren't interested, it's that we don't really care to email the same person five times to get a response. It's obvious after two they just don't care.

On Damons idea, it's viable, has been tested, and was dismissed without so much as anyone caring to view what I had.

[Jeremy]

Yeah I should say that there is some vague work on having IFPA forums for all the committees that would be open to all IFPA members so you'd be able to know exactly what's going on - people are just too busy with other stuff I guess. I've volunteered to do all the work invovled if neccessary but it's really in the hands of the board of directors at the moment. I think that move would be an enourmas improvement to the relations between the policy members of the IFPA and the general members.

[Tsiangkun]

Yeah, or even if one of them periodically came online here or there and said something to the effect of

The IFPA is seeking player opinions on modification of rule XXX.12.A.34
to read "Changes to existing rules here"

Right now it seems like the IFPA is on autopilot and there is little direct interaction with the members.

I think you are onto something with that continous email idea. The players should organize people to lobby for rule changes. So when we have an idea that seems to be popular by consensus, we can nominate a lobbiest to continously email the IFPA to get the attention we feel the issue deserves.

[FlexThis]

Whew!!! Thanks for backing me up, wasn't sure if I needed to have my bags packed by the door on that comment. Didn't want to step on any toes.

~peace
Damon