The Burden of believing in God

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 12 Feb 2006 21:19

the point that i am trying to make is that i can still be a good person without religion

I don't see anyone with a speck of intelligence debating you either.

If that does happen then i think that is pretty crappy of god to send a good person to hell because i do not worship his rules.

Don't try to recognize God on a human level. Admitting that their is a monolithic God in the first place basically suggests that God (Assuming he's real) is perfect and unfaultably just, so trying to say shit like "God shouldn't do this because it isn't fair" or "God shouldn't do that because it's wrong" is plain baseless.

Why is it so hard to understand: You have to know and accept God to be able to enter his kingdom. Nice Atheist's are going to hell (Assuming there is one), because religion is about so much more than just being a decent human being. Denying God's existance is denying the plan he has set out for you. In short, if you don't believe in God you're going to hell. Sorry to all the Atheist's out there hoping that God will let them in because they gave money to homeless people every once in awhile.

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 12 Feb 2006 21:30

but its not that i do not believe in god..as i said before, i am not an athiest, i am agnostic. I believe that there is a possibility that god exists...i just do not want to follow religion.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 Feb 2006 14:13

I don't care what you are. My arguments above are fitting for either Atheism or Agnosticism.

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 13 Feb 2006 17:01

Chim-Chim wrote:
It does matter what a person believes in. If you don't believe in anything you'll just wind up another piece of shit.

The only thing i need to believe in is myself.

Jdigges · Post by **Jdigges** » 13 Feb 2006 17:04

BainbridgeShred wrote:In short, if you don't believe in God you're going to hell. Sorry to all the Atheist's out there hoping that God will let them in because they gave money to homeless people every once in awhile.

i can't stand bible thumpers like you man. Who are you to say that someone has a plan for me? i am in complete control of my life. No other force can change that.

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 13 Feb 2006 17:06

that was exactly what i was trying to say...finally someone who agrees with me.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 Feb 2006 18:26

i can't stand bible thumpers like you man. Who are you to say that someone has a plan for me? i am in complete control of my life. No other force can change that.

No ones thumping any Bible. I wrote my post from the posistion that we were assuming that a God exists (Go back and look at what I wrote in parenthesis's in my original post), because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to respond to the points Troyson was making. I'm not even saying God exists, I'm just arguing from a religious perspective with an Atheist who can't comprehend why God wouldn't let him into Heavan just because he was a good person. Troyson started talking from the point of assumption about their being a God, so both of you owe me an apology for being so stupid.

BTW, saying that you are in complete control of your life is just as much an assumption as my saying God is in control of your life. Not that I ever said that anyways, so don't put words into my mouth, but you might want to actually read what your posting sometimes and think about it.

cd · Post by cd » 13 Feb 2006 18:48

I have no reason to believe in a God other than that's what I've been told by everyone else. I'm not saying that I KNOW there is no God... that's just as ignorant as when people claim that they KNOW "He" exists, (especially when it comes to blind faith to an organized religion or some book written by ordinary people thousands of years ago. people who know just as little about this universe as we do). I mean, I would certainly like to believe in all that good stuff, but I'm a bit skeptical to what appears to be magic and fairy tales, and I think that people who just decide to completely believe in it are just deluding themselvses with wishful thinking.

I dunno. For me, it just comes down to the fact that nobody around me is any more capable of deciding what is real and what is make-believe than I am. And anyone who claims to have some deeper insight into the supernatural is full of BS IMHO.

cd · Post by cd » 13 Feb 2006 19:06

BainbridgeShred wrote: Why is it so hard to understand: You have to know and accept God to be able to enter his kingdom. Nice Atheist's are going to hell (Assuming there is one), because religion is about so much more than just being a decent human being. Denying God's existance is denying the plan he has set out for you. In short, if you don't believe in God you're going to hell. Sorry to all the Atheist's out there hoping that God will let them in because they gave money to homeless people every once in awhile.

That's only true with some people's versions of religion. It's not an absolute thing. There are lots of people who think that God wants us to enjoy our lives and be good to each other, not live in servitude or fear of hell. And since people basically choose what they want to believe in, I would say that those who decide to believe that the above paragraph is true have a pretty messed up outlook on reality.

professor · Post by **professor** » 13 Feb 2006 19:14

As long as I lead a rich, fulfilling, happy life, and i am a good person

the point that i am trying to make is that i can still be a good person without religion. I do not need god, or an absence of god for that matter, in order to keep me in balance and keep me from doing bad things.

The problem with the theory that you can live a "good" life without believing in God is without God, who is to say what a good life is? If you take away absolute truth about what is right and wrong, good or bad, then anything goes. How can you know what a good life is, if you don't know what "good" is? You can't.

i am in complete control of my life. No other force can change that.

You really think that? There are many different forces that control your life and I'm not even talking about God. Your parents, society, nature, etc. all have/had some sort of control over your life. So saying that you are in COMPLETE control of your life, is simply wrong.

Also did you ever watch Contact? Part of that movie is about the existence of God, and for the most part, I agree with Ellie (the main character), but when Palmer Joss asks if she loves her father, and then after she said yes, he said to explain that, and she couldn't answer him, and he explained that that's how he explains that God exists...that part made me wonder.

I use this example a lot to show that you can't prove or explain everything in life. Given that fact, I think any logical person would NOT be able to say for sure that God does not exist.

Consider this, I love my parents. I know for sure I love my parents and nobody can tell me I don't. People could say I don't love my parents because there is no scientific proof and they could ask me to prove that I do, but nothing I could do would prove without a doubt that I love my parents, but that doesn't mean I don't.

What I'm getting at is what you see with your eyes and hear with your ears isn't all there is. So it's not rational to say that because there is no scientific evidence to support the existance of God, it must mean there is no God. You should always consider it an option and keep searching to find out for yourself.

I know in my heart that God exists just like I know I love my parents, but I also know with my mind that believing in God is better than not. The way I see it is, if what I believe is right, then I'm very glad I believe what I do, but if I'm wrong and there is no God, then it doesn't really matter what I believed in my life, now does it? So, believing in God seems much more logical than not.

You don't have to believe in God and I don't believe it's my job to make you, but I do think it's my job to tell you what I believe so that you can make that choice yourself.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 13 Feb 2006 20:11

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist."
-Verbal Kint, The Usual Suspects

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 Feb 2006 20:11

That's only true with some people's versions of religion. It's not an absolute thing. There are lots of people who think that God wants us to enjoy our lives and be good to each other, not live in servitude or fear of hell. And since people basically choose what they want to believe in, I would say that those who decide to believe that the above paragraph is true have a pretty messed up outlook on reality.

You're right. But as a Christian I can only speak from a Christian perspective. Also, where in the Bible do you get the opinion that God doesn't want us to enjoy our lives and be good to each other? You need to go read your scripture young man.

I have no reason to believe in a God other than that's what I've been told by everyone else. I'm not saying that I KNOW there is no God... that's just as ignorant as when people claim that they KNOW "He" exists, (especially when it comes to blind faith to an organized religion or some book written by ordinary people thousands of years ago. people who know just as little about this universe as we do). I mean, I would certainly like to believe in all that good stuff, but I'm a bit skeptical to what appears to be magic and fairy tales, and I think that people who just decide to completely believe in it are just deluding themselvses with wishful thinking.

I find nothing to disagree with in any of this. Never have I claimed that I "know" God exists. And it's also true that you have no reason to believe in a God. The only contention I have is that you claim the Bible was written by ordinary people, but I guess that's why I'm a Christian and you're an Atheist/Agnostic.

cd · Post by cd » 13 Feb 2006 20:52

BainbridgeShred wrote:
You're right. But as a Christian I can only speak from a Christian perspective. Also, where in the Bible do you get the opinion that God doesn't want us to enjoy our lives and be good to each other?

I didn't have that opinion. Of course the bible encourages us to be good to each other, but that's not what we're being judged on (according to the bible). Like you said: nice Atheists are going to hell.

Never have I claimed that I "know" God exists.

Right. That first post wasn't directed at you or anybody in particular. But beware, if you have any doubt that "He" exists then you're going to hell.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 Feb 2006 21:07

Right. That first post wasn't directed at you or anybody in particular. But beware, if you have any doubt that "He" exists then you're going to hell.

I have no doubt that he exists. All I'm saying is that I have no proof that I can offer you to show that he exists.

sen · Post by **sen** » 13 Feb 2006 21:11

The Bible <b>was</b> penned by ordinary men (and woman), but these men (and woman) were <i>inspired</i> by God.

As for those who don't believe in God . . . Here's something to think about. You are looking at a computer monitor right now, was it designed and build by someone? Or did it simply happen?
All around you, you see the beautiful earth we live in. Was it desgined and made by someone or did it just happen? If the earth was just a little bit closer to the sun we would burn, if it was further away we would freeze. Coincidence??

Just some thoughts.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 13 Feb 2006 21:15

What pisses me off is God made us all blind. If we're supposed to ignore our logical brain, and have 'blind faith' in Him or we'll burn forever in Hell, man he really put us between a rock and a hard place didn't He?

I mean, it's almost like being in a big Casino for your eternal soul. Which game do I choose? Which one will make me a winner? I better choose before I die though, or I'll burn in Hell forever.

A certain percentage of people will be completely unable to decide. Those poor souls are going to Hell.

Another percentage will use their logical brains that God gave them to decide, and realize that the best way to win is not to play the game. Hellbound.

And only the people that can completely shut off their logical brain will praise and worship God, in spite of the fact that he left us with a freakin RIDDLE to get to where He is.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 Feb 2006 21:19

The Bible was penned by ordinary men (and woman), but these men (and woman) were inspired by God.

Thus making them extra-ordinary.

As for those who don't believe in God . . . Here's something to think about. You are looking at a computer monitor right now, was it designed and build by someone? Or did it simply happen?
All around you, you see the beautiful earth we live in. Was it desgined and made by someone or did it just happen? If the earth was just a little bit closer to the sun we would burn, if it was further away we would freeze. Coincidence??

This is a strawman argument, and I am sorry that someone of my own faith is using such decieving measures to advance his point.

And only the people that can completely shut off their logical brain will praise and worship God, in spite of the fact that he left us with a freakin RIDDLE to get to where He is.

The most spritually advanced people are those who realize that our "logical brains" are basically a bunch of bullshit. Do you honestly expect yourself to comprehend to concept of Heavan using your logical brain? The only thing holding you back from experiecning God is that you're trying to analyze everything. It's all about the Buddhist concept or just denying what is real to the human mind. People who have converted to Christian's have solved your "riddle", by simply accepting what is paranormal. That is, anyways, from a Christian perspective.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 13 Feb 2006 21:21

Right....So why give us the brain in the first place Dan? If that's the one thing that will hold us back from going to Heaven, isn't that kinda setting us up for failure?

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 13 Feb 2006 21:27

Right....So why give us the brain in the first place Dan? If that's the one thing that will hold us back from going to Heaven, isn't that kinda setting us up for failure?

Thank Adam and Eve for that. From a Christian perspective, we were perfect from the beggining, and fucked our own selves up. But maybe, putting creation myths aside, God just wants to see whom of his children are worthy of entering his Kingdom, and the logical brain is just something we need to shed in order to appreciate the beauty that is God. And to answer your question, no. The logical brain isn't setting us up for failure. It is giving us the potential for failure, but I'd rather live in a world where their is a choice between good and evil rather than in a world where every human is an atamoun who is programmed to live perfectly. Ask yourself honestly, would you rather have the choice between good and evil or would you rather everyone be a carbon copy of God's image, all of us perfect in our rightousness. I think, if you really lok at it, that most humans would much rather prefer the former.

shredzilla · Post by **shredzilla** » 13 Feb 2006 21:32

NO, I would not rather have the choice between good and evil. I'd like to not be able to do evil things, if that will lead me to Hell, and I resent God for that. I'm sorry if that is blasphemy, but don't stick a kid in a candy store with tons of free candy and tell him not to eat it. It's a stupid test.