Destroying the Video Market? (no video)

[Allan]

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Interesting thread B-Rad

Being the first person to publish a footbag video longer than 1 minute on the Internet (CSS *2* video), I've got to say that I'm stoked that people are continuing to release stuff for free - I think it's been the backbone of growth for our sport and without all the freebies, we wouldn't be where we are today.

That being said, I also think that we should do our best to support those film makers who put serious time and effort into producing slick videos in a high quality format.

As Colin said, it's all about recognizing what you're getting for free and contributing back when you can.

Long Live Free Shred Videos!! Long Live the Creative Commons !!

[QuantumBalance]

qphox said

I think Sam has had the strongest counterpoint so far

YAYYYYY YAY THATS ME YAY I SAID GOOD THINGS YAYYYY

within that quote qphox said:

I think sam

ME too!!! SAM.. SAM SAM SAM... sam... SAM

...




something to make this post worthy of not being deleted:
i think the IFPA should do something where they make a compilation of shred videos that get released on the net every month and send it out to the IFPA members that will increase membership i beleive





SAMMMMMMM!

[Tsiangkun]

For me, it all started with Rippin busting out 4-add tricks like cake.
http://www.footbag.org/multimedia/qt/rippin-rick.mov

[sen]

I think having a subscription type deal like for magazine would be good. Except it wouldn't be a magazine, it would be a CD or DVD with footbag video's sent out every month. And then maybe you could get a free month for every video you contribute to encouage people to use this.

[C-Fan]

Lots of very good points in this thread. Good thread Brad. I also like Allan`s "B-Rad" nickname. A bit catchier than "BDIF."

I like Jeremy`s idea about making a DVD every couple months with exclusive footage. If enough good players signed up for that, I think it could do well. If Jorden made all of his videos 2 minutes shorter, and sent in those 2 minutes per video to the DVD, that alone would make it worth a purchase. I`d be willing to send in some stuff of mine too, if I could coordinate it with the Tokyo crew.

Another issue that hasn`t really been touched upon, is the convenience of having a hard copy of a dvd over an internet video. Internet videos are great, but its easy to forget about them. If you have a video on DVD, you can watch it over and over again whenever, and its easier to lend a DVD to somebody interested in the sport, then to send them a URL.

As for the whole freshness/editing thing, its a very valid point for discussion. Personally, I don`t mind if the shred on a video is a little bit dated, so long as I haven`t seen it before. When I watched Sick 03, I knew all the shred was dated by almost a year, but I was cool with that because I hadn`t seen most of it, and the editing was good. Yeah, I knew Vasek could bust harder, but I was still impressed with some beasts I hadn`t seen before. When "Balance of Power" came out I was really disappointed, because I had seen 90% of the footage months earlier on less well edited videos.

I think Eutopia is coming out really late mostly because Eli is busy with school. But I talked to him a bit about the issue a while back, and he said something to the effect that it was frustrating for him to put in the time editing something really well, only to have the same footage come out earlier in a less-well-edited form. I`ve sent him a few tapes of my footage to bring my section more up-to-date, and all of that footage is exclusive. As an example, one of the moves I sent him I hit a year and a half ago, but since I never mentioned it online, and its not a move people would think I do, I still think it will be impressive once the video comes out and it is well-edited.

[qphox]

Shooting Ducking Blender?

But seriously...I think there should be less footage online. The IFPA exclusive footage deal sounds great, but how often will people submit it. I don't think it could work based on a schedule. It would have to work on a basis of video capacity. Every 15 minutes total of footage ("deemed worthy"?) they get, they send out.

?

Think so?

And on the deemed worthy thing. How fresh and exciting would the footage have to be? I don't think there's going to be fresh footage from the upper echelon of footbag coming out constantly. I mean if Joe Kulacz, a relatively new player to the game, makes a video and sends it in...I'd probably like to see it because I'm interested in Joe's game. But is it worth the same as Ahren's newest beast?

After all, people are paying the IFPA for this stuff.

[Jeremy]

I think the point would be that new players who weren't good enough to get into the vid would post their stuff on the internet - so there would still be lots of footage on the net, as well as comp footage, trailers, footage from people who wanted it to stay free etc.

[NotHisRealName]

Another thing to consider is that most people like to edit their footage to a cool song they like.
But the question is... did they get the artist's permission? In 99.9 cases, I'd say no.
Therefore they'd be in breach of copywrite.

But because the videos are being released online, making NO profit for the producer of the clip, there's usually not a problem.
The minute you start charging money for someone else's work, then you're breaching copywrite.

Heck, I'm doing it (just to break even on postage costs) with an Australian Footbag Competition DVD that I've made, but I'm not making a profit.

I think that online films are not destroying the video market. It's the same with any other sort of footbag item available online... it's just not a big enough market to make money.

Online videos also help budding film makers hone their trade, and to spread the word of footbag.
It's not all bad.

[Colin]

To have a market, you need an audience with disposable income. Our audience is too small, and it's for the most part pubescent, so has relativly little disposable income. We're growing, right? Has the attendance of jams been getting bigger? It seems ridiculas to me now, there's an event somewhere in NA like every month - right now there's the Idaho thing, GRASS, NJ S&S, Montana, shrEdmonton and the EC champs all being discussed. I don't think it was like this even when I started getting interested in the sport a few years ago.

Thing is, the audience is growing real fast, and I think the internet vids have had a lot to do with it. So is there some cutoff point, where we switch from growth to profit? Who profits, anyways?

How long before there's an event where you have to buy 'rights' to bring in a camera, or somebody owns exclusive filming rights? How long until the top-tier players won't shred in front of a camera without a contract? How long until they won't shred anywhere without a contract?

My interest in footbag over the past few years has caused me to lose interest in every single commercial sport - the atheletes are so intangible, they're not real people - I can't care about them.

We're opening a can of worms here. Ultra tangly worms from the future - sent to destroy us all. What an incoherent post...

[FootbagginBum]

Ultra Tangly indeed I think this is a great thread/question/poll too.

I have always been a connosuer of internet video. I have more than 6gb of video stored, with everything from the 98 and 99 single runs, through the huge czech and monsterhack vids, along with most of ya'lls first intermediate vids (like Clavens and Andrew Grant...wow have they come a ways). I love downloading vids, and in the 10ish months that I was hardly around on modified, I still popped on and downloaded pretty frequently.

That being said, I also have 9 (I think) professional Videos/DVDs, and although I can NEVER afford them, I still buy them when I can and watch them a million times and enjoy the hell out of it. I wish I had more.

But I do feel that we need to keep some vids free, and more than the .org competition and move vids. Little snipits of the big tourneys and players of the time should be freely circulated, and they can act as trailers for the big productions.

I think footbag hella needs to make more money too, though. Even if it goes straight to Steve for him to dispurse however he see's fit. There are enough of us that an occasional 2 dollar (random small amount) impact from everyone would do wonders. 2 x 4000 (a less than all estimate of people who "play footbag") would be 8 grand that could double prize money at worlds (or start prize money at some nationals or something if we're getting tired of giving Vasek money) and set up more events. If we could somehow organize the monthly dvds into ifpa membership, and make sure that all IFPA members got the dvds, and made sure that the dvds had footage that was all exclusive and/or insane (like I don't care how many times I see vasek's superduperfly>symposium flurry, that could be on every vid) I think we could slowly generate more money for the sport without hurting the free market or losing new players due to lack of impressive footage. Best of all, a monthly video sent out to 1000 ifpa members equals a hellofalot more hard copy footage circulating. If I bought the dvds, I could rip them after watching them 20 times, and pass out all my dvds that were over 6 months old at concerts to hackers for free. That would be an even better free starting video for a shredder, and if they like it enough, they can buy them eventually.

So you figure that everyone who's currently paying $10 a year would pay say $30 bucks if they got free monthly/bimonthly or even quarterly vids free in their mailbox. And it would attract some people who aren't currently members with a reason to join.

Now, I wouldn't underestimate the pubescent funds, but I think we may be over estimating video production. Some kids have parents with cash that appreciate footbag (like I have a friend whose parents paid for him to go to tournaments as long as he competed) so the money exists with which to buy the vids, and even if its only 1-2 people per town that can buy them, their friends will get to see them free soon enough. But there has always been a fluctuation in the amount of videos being released. Peoples cameras break, are stolen (my case that STILL pisses me off), or move away (David and Ashley) and suddenly less vids come out for a couple months. There has been a good amount lately, and with growing numbers of players, and continuingly lowering costs of technology, this should continue to rise (we'll have camera access again here soon too BTW), but if we promise monthly/bimonthly vids, we need production guaruntees. Maybe we can get someone to film all/ most of the events going on and send the tapes to someone who's bored and likes to edit but doesn't have good footage. Daryl and Sunny get to most tourneys because of FF's sponsor status and sales potential, if we could get them (or some similar people) an official IFPA camera with which to film at least 30 minutes of all the events they go too, that would greatly increase the output of video and make regular dvds more meaty.

I still have not voted, may vote soon, I think that we could be making more money, but see some free vids as neccesity. Sorry for the length of post, hope some of the ideas are appreciated. Have a great day everyone

Peace,
Bum