why is there not an official footbag?

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 28 Feb 2011 12:35

i've been on modified since 2004 for pete's sake. in fact, i've been around long enough that i've kicked in circles with Ken S., Laroche, & James - who've all responded to this topic. i'm not trolling for anything except a discussion that most of you seem unwilling to have. i simply posed a question, thought of an answer, & defended my stance. i'm well aware that my opinion is unpopluar, so was the new healthcare law. if nobody wants to read or participate in any discussion about improving footbag, then my next idea is that moderators should delete the entire "General Footbag" message board.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 28 Feb 2011 14:48

i really dont follow or understand you..

i simply posed a question, thought of an answer, & defended my stance

your defense is unconvincing, no one sees, or understands clearly how this could improve footbag. there has been explanations of how hard it would be to manufacture and have it excepted. with the small numbers of people really involved in footbag, it dose not seem to have any improvements for the sport.

if nobody wants to read or participate in any discussion about improving footbag, then my next idea is that moderators should delete the entire "General Footbag" message board.

please explain your self. you seem so set that a official bag will improve the sport, but you just say it an give no examples of how it could offer any improvements at all that are convincing. to then make a comment like this... really? what are you trying to achieve here?
i think your second idea is as good as your first.

if you ask me the whole idea is just never gonna happen. there's no need an no reason, it will benefit no one. ( except the company making the "official" bags)

an elliott i have no disliking for you at all. i am just replying, isnt that what you want when u posted this discussion? im not arguing with you im merely offering my thoughts.

landon palmer · Post by **landon palmer** » 28 Feb 2011 17:07

jeremy hit it on the nail

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 28 Feb 2011 21:40

james wrote:This thread and all your arguments are fail.

The best bags are hand stitched with love.

I'll use whatever damn bag I please.

Well of course you're free to do that, but if tournament directors or the IFPA decide at some stage in the future to impose more consistency in bags used (and as I said, I can't imagine happening until footbag is pretty close to being a genuinely professional sport) then you'll just get disqualified with no recourse.

F[uns]tylin' Eclectic wrote:
Take the swastika off of your sleeve, replace it with a smiley face, play footbag, and have fun.

That's the most moronic thing I've read for a while. If you don't want to have speculative discussions about the future of footbag, just don't post in these topics. Comparing people who tortured and murdered 9 million people to those wondering if footbag will follow the trends of professional sports is perhaps the stupidest Nazi comparison I've ever seen.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 28 Feb 2011 21:49

zachatree wrote: please explain your self. you seem so set that a official bag will improve the sport, but you just say it an give no examples of how it could offer any improvements at all that are convincing. to then make a comment like this... really? what are you trying to achieve here?
i think your second idea is as good as your first.

if you ask me the whole idea is just never gonna happen. there's no need an no reason, it will benefit no one. ( except the company making the "official" bags)

The benefits are obvious. It will mean all players are on an equal footing (:P) and there's no room for future disputes about new technologies that give some bags an advantage. It also means that both the IFPA and the footbag tournament has an extra source of funding, meaning they can organise better tournaments and provide better services for players. Of course the former isn't a serious issue at this time, and the footbag market isn't big enough to make the second worthwhile either. However if prize money for footbag competitions was comparable with professional sports it's easy to see how people would try to push the boundaries of bags to give them a (possibly unfair) advantage, and if footbag were ever that size I think it would be certain that the footbag and apparel market would be big enough to make such bag sponsorship a good economic decision.

F[uns]tylin' Eclectic · Post by **F[uns]tylin' Eclectic** » 28 Feb 2011 22:06

Jeremy wrote:
F[uns]tylin' Eclectic wrote:
Take the swastika off of your sleeve, replace it with a smiley face, play footbag, and have fun.
That's the most moronic thing I've read for a while. If you don't want to have speculative discussions about the future of footbag, just don't post in these topics. Comparing people who tortured and murdered 9 million people to those wondering if footbag will follow the trends of professional sports is perhaps the stupidest Nazi comparison I've ever seen.

It just sounded like Elliot was picking at a scab. It's obvious that this topic was going to piss people off and I think he knew that when he started it. I wasn't comparing footbag to nazis. I was referring to them, saying that "the way he was thinking" could be compared to nazism, and to not worry about it and just have a good time playing footbag instead of clearly getting some of the footbag community angry. Think what you please, I'm quite finished with this heated thread.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 28 Feb 2011 22:42

I don't understand why this topic would piss people off unless they have a poor grasp of reality. Elliot isn't the head of the IFPA. I'm fairly sure he's mainly a net player and is offering an understandable position from that perspective (where I think they do, or are moving towards, official bags). He has no direct influence on these kinds of decisions so the only way this could actually happen would be if he puts forward a strong enough argument that people reading were convinced and worked towards adopting it. Getting angry about this is more of reflection on the person getting angry than anything else.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 28 Feb 2011 23:13

for the record i dont think anyone got pissed off from this thread.

However if prize money for footbag competitions was comparable with professional sports it's easy to see how people would try to push the boundaries of bags to give them a (possibly unfair) advantage, and if footbag were ever that size I think it would be certain that the footbag and apparel market would be big enough to make such bag sponsorship a good economic decision.

totally understand what you mean. if there was 10,000 dollars of prize money on the line i can easily see how the people who donated, or raised that money, along with the players would want to have the playing field as level as possible. in doing so would require a official bag.

if we are gonna talk about it im interested in what the bag would be like that would be universally excepted an used for major sanctioned events.
who are the people who would make the call an choice in the bag?

when i think about it i realize that i have done some pretty hard tricks with things like golf balls, rocks, an fruit. so im gonna answer my own question, its not that hard to adjust an play with a bag that is presented to you.

if more interest, to the point that footbag has thousands of dollars for prize money ever happened... a official footbag would probably happen.

F[uns]tylin' Eclectic · Post by **F[uns]tylin' Eclectic** » 01 Mar 2011 06:28

Swizzle wrote:99% chance I won't be responding again. Just so you know now.

Corey seemed pissed off/irritated, yes? Yes. Elliot's tone sounded cocky and I didn't like that. I had to post again, this is like a trainwreck you just can't look away from. BUT this is now my last post. Zach, if you wanna disagree with me some more, you're going to have to wait to do it in person

Good day.

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 01 Mar 2011 09:14

Maybe there's something I missed, but how would having an official bag generate extra revenue for footbag?

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 01 Mar 2011 09:44

Laroche wrote:Maybe there's something I missed, but how would having an official bag generate extra revenue for footbag?

no one said it would. It would require more revenue to support a offcial bag.

Post by **Allan** » 01 Mar 2011 10:59

Laroche wrote:Maybe there's something I missed, but how would having an official bag generate extra revenue for footbag?

Presumably, the production of an official bag would be funded/created by IFPA, who would, in turn, sell the bag at a profit and use the proceeds to fund tournaments etc.

I don't think an official bag is a particularly good idea, myself. I think diversity is a good thing, and that healthy competition is better at producing innovation than regulations.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 01 Mar 2011 13:16

I assumed it would be like other sports with official bags, and the rights to the official bag would be sold to the company who produces it so they would get the advertising benefits. Even in really big sports like soccer there isn't huge amounts of money to be made through ball sales alone, but companies like Nike sponsor the official ball because they have a wider range of products and can expand their brand rather than a specific product. The only way I can imagine an official bag happening would be under those kinds of circumstances. When you look at the amount of money sponsors give sports like freestyle skiiing, I guess it might be conceivable to happen as soon as footbag had regular television coverage on a mainly alternative sports dedicated channel, rather than needing to be really mainstream, but that's still probably a long way off.

james · Post by **james** » 02 Mar 2011 10:56

I'm angry because I keep hearing the same shit over and over in this forum and it doesn't do anything for anyone.
I suppose I should just take the next step and stop caring.

Oh, and official bags will never happen. And people that don't play will never care about footbag. Time for the community to start dealing with it.

I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

Elliott · Post by **Elliott** » 02 Mar 2011 11:13

thanks to many for some genuinely thoughtful comments, i was beginning to get disgusted with some of this feedback. money & sponsorships are major factors if this were to ever happen. this may just be a rumor i heard - didn't vasek start competing in soccer juggling contests for money? if it's actually true... think about what that means. the superstar of freestyle competing in another sport! edit: okay so it's not a rumor. money talks people.

one of the reasons i started thinking about this is when i learned that other foot sports footvolley & jokgu have official balls. these sports are fairly new & started in the mid-60's. footbag is not much younger, so i figure it's probably just a matter of time. footbag net has been moving closer to getting an official bag, but things kinda fizzled out a couple years ago. it appears that most net players are in agreement over the issue. if i were to take a guess as to why it hasn't happened yet, i'd say money & sponsorships. http://www.footbag.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27

skankin · Post by **skankin** » 02 Mar 2011 13:37

footbaggers = crybabies
but good thread though

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 02 Mar 2011 16:02

A big problem with this idea is that freestyle footbag is foremost a non-competitive sport. Many -- if not most -- players do not play to compete. I assume that is where James is coming from, and that's where I come from. What benefits would a standardized bag have for these [likely majority of] players who play for fun?

Jeremy wrote:
james wrote:This thread and all your arguments are fail.

The best bags are hand stitched with love.

I'll use whatever damn bag I please.
Well of course you're free to do that, but if tournament directors or the IFPA decide at some stage in the future to impose more consistency in bags used (and as I said, I can't imagine happening until footbag is pretty close to being a genuinely professional sport) then you'll just get disqualified with no recourse.

I've a feeling that this response has no impact, because of the fact that many of us don't care for competition. Oh no, disqualified from something in which I never intended to participate in the first place...

sen · Post by **sen** » 02 Mar 2011 20:50

I don't think an official bag would matter to those that don't want to compete. I play soccer in the park with friends. We don't use an official ball of any type. We use whatever someone brings. Just like when we play volleyball at the beach. It's just for fun, we use whatever bag we like. I don't see why in footbag it would be any different. Official Bag would only be for Official Events. What you use in your own basement wouldn't matter if you weren't competing in official events.

I still feel that enforcing the current rules on footbag size/weight is much more important than having an official bag. Elliot has stated that riding apparatus shouldn't be used as an example, but I think freestyle has way more similarities to Freestyle BMX, skateboarding, snowboarding, Freestyle Skiing and other individual trick based sports where competitors can use what ever gear they want. Elliot, wouldn't you agree Freestyle Footbag has more similarities to these sports than to soccer or even footvolley?

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 02 Mar 2011 22:10

Muffinman wrote:A big problem with this idea is that freestyle footbag is foremost a non-competitive sport. Many -- if not most -- players do not play to compete. I assume that is where James is coming from, and that's where I come from. What benefits would a standardized bag have for these [likely majority of] players who play for fun?

Jeremy wrote:
james wrote:This thread and all your arguments are fail.

The best bags are hand stitched with love.

I'll use whatever damn bag I please.
Well of course you're free to do that, but if tournament directors or the IFPA decide at some stage in the future to impose more consistency in bags used (and as I said, I can't imagine happening until footbag is pretty close to being a genuinely professional sport) then you'll just get disqualified with no recourse.
I've a feeling that this response has no impact, because of the fact that many of us don't care for competition. Oh no, disqualified from something in which I never intended to participate in the first place...

skankin · Post by **skankin** » 03 Mar 2011 07:38

I totally agree with you Sen, in order to do tricks we must use something that feels right to us, everyone has a different way of playing. So different bags helps us getting better, but for official competition an official bag would be great. Or at least reinforcing the official rules so judges check if the bags are within official standards.

The good thing I could see about an Official bag would be to steal the market that Wham-O currently has with their Hacky Sack, it would also be a good way for the IFPA to make money, and to fund the Worlds and big events, so I think that we should concentrate on the good it could bring the sport.

I think that people on this forum have footbag on their hearts and that any little things that comes up that might sound negative, brings out their passion and often in a bad way. Making them irritated and aggressive, making this forum a joke more often than we'd wish to.

Being passionnate is a good thing, but we might try to read ourselves twice before we post, I've done it in the past we've all done it, but we're talking about making this sport more popular among the population not just among immature people(teenagers).

In my opinion the official bag would be good if it was an IFPA product, made by the same people who make Lotus's bag because they are good. Selling these bags for 15-20$ or so on an official website would be great publicity for the sport and it could grow more popular and isn't it what we all want? Or are people afraid that if it becomes popular they will lose their status of the best player in their area?

Competition is not important for everyone but we all thrive to be good, to surpass ourselves and that is good. If the judges checked the bags before each competition it would bring standards where they might have dropped down.

A lot of people bring good arguments to the table and we ought to respect the people who think about what they say instead of insulting them or trying to bring them down.

Have a great day and think about the IFPA official footbag, that would be a great way to sell this sport.

good thinking elliot