PLEASE HELP ME (Settled, Thanks :-) )

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 14 Jul 2005 01:45

FootbagginBum wrote:So quit your bitchin, learn to carpool more, ask me for gas money if you need it, and stop being selfish and/or lazy about transportation. It reflects badly on all of you, and here I am trying to bring you into the community and give everyone a positive impression of the players here. And a special thanks to Steve for making the effort to communicate, cheer me up, calm me down, and allow me to fix all this, and to Travis for sticking by me through thick and thin.

This might be something better comunicated in speach rather than text... I hope your club members don't take that the wrong way like they have been some of your other posts Loren.

BTW, (totally off topic) how is your sick15 going man? And what about sick1 and sick3? got anything for me yet?

Splint · Post by **Splint** » 14 Jul 2005 02:21

First off let me say that Loren seems like a very dedicated leader of this club.

However, Loren, in order to be a "good" leader you have some things you really need to work on. It seems like your idea of a resolution to this topic was to have everything go your way. The resolution to this topic was not about keeping your club intact. It was about keeping everyone together at the PLACE you wanted them to stay together. Basically a few members of your group decided they wanted to kick elsewhere for a Saturday or two and you cried mutiny. You had worked so hard for so long to build a big club and then some of them went and made a decision without you.

I mean really, you pretty much say in your last reply that they can kick wherever they want during the week, but they have to kick at UNLV on Saturday. What the hell is that? Why don't you kick at UNLV during the week and then go to the other spot in BFNWLV on Saturdays?

I'm not really suggesting that. What I'm really suggesting is that you have serious dictatorial issues when it comes to the club. You react as though things have to go your way or you'll take your ball and go home.

What's the big deal if a few of your guys don't want to meet at the same place every single week?

I'm sorry, I should probably leave this topic alone because it doesn't affect me one way or the other, but it really urks me that the people in the Vegas club are so scared of hurting your feelings that they don't do what they want because you blow a lid and come running to find people to help you change their minds.

I think sometimes you have to consider what's good for them too. Not just what's good for footbag or for you or for the club.

I was happy to e-mail Evan when you said he was thinking about quitting and I jokingly told him he'd have to pay me back for the Subway I bought him if he quit. I also told him that if footbag really wasn't there for him then it was his decision to make. I'm glad he changed his mind, but if he hadn't then it would have been cool to because he would be great at anything he did.

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Jul 2005 06:35

Splint, I love you. You have expressed the feelings of many of us in the club in a much better and calm way that I could have done (you should've seen the posts in my blog, not pleasant). You hit the nail on the head exactly. Thank you. At least one person sees what we are talking about.

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 14 Jul 2005 12:18

Hey, I'm just saying I'm going to be there on Saturday every week that I'm in town to support the people without a voice and the tradition of the spot, and I'd prefer it if the people that can do more than advanced hacky sack were there to keep me company. The only signifigance of Saturday is that is when the UNLV meeting is, and I made special arrangements for people to have meetings elsewhere during the week, but the "official", posted on the website, told to all the hacky sackers, advertised meeting is held on Saturday from 1:00-4:20 on the amphitheatre on the campus, has been for 10 years, and will be as long as I'm in charge.

And whether or not you guys like it, I did show you all how to play, and in a month we're going to have official positions with our official club, minutes and all that jazz, and I'm going to be president officially, as I have been unnofficially since we launched the website in 2002. Take a look at it, see the title, and stop getting uselessly annoyed when I make proclaimations for your own good.

And for the rest of the communities reference (no offence taken toward Brad just for reference, he's only got good things to say as well), I normally don't treat the club like this or talk in any other manner than is displayed in my frequent posts around the forum. I only get authoritarian when people start dissenting from me when I'm only saying things that are for there own good. And for any of you who really want an insight on why I take the lead, read Plato's Republic and take it to heart, for its one of the most important documents in western history and will be the basis of my doctoral thesis (I believe). Things are better when a philosopher is in charge, because they will consider the whole picture rather than their own interests from a subjective point of view.

And I must say (i forgot to metion in my previos post) that the Lenny and Bill comment was absolutely hilarious...totally brought a smile to my face.

Peace,
Bum

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 14 Jul 2005 13:14

FootbagginBum wrote:And for the rest of the communities reference (no offence taken toward Brad just for reference, he's only got good things to say as well), I normally don't treat the club like this or talk in any other manner than is displayed in my frequent posts around the forum. I only get authoritarian when people start dissenting from me when I'm only saying things that are for there own good. And for any of you who really want an insight on why I take the lead, read Plato's Republic and take it to heart, for its one of the most important documents in western history and will be the basis of my doctoral thesis (I believe). Things are better when a philosopher is in charge, because they will consider the whole picture rather than their own interests from a subjective point of view.

An enlightened dictatorship in action...

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Jul 2005 14:19

Bum wrote:And whether or not you guys like it, I did show you all how to play

Not all of us.

Bum wrote:I only get authoritarian when people start dissenting from me when I'm only saying things that are for there own good.

So if someone holds an opinion that is contrary to your own you start bossing them around? How does that work? And what makes all of your ideas better than everyone elses? What gives you authority over others? These questions I would really like you to answer.

Loren, I'm glad you posted this last post of yours to show people what you really think.

Badnfluenc · Post by **Badnfluenc** » 14 Jul 2005 14:26

Edited:

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 14 Jul 2005 14:31

wow, and all this time i thought i was pissed that i didnt have anyone around to teach me to freestyle! phew, i dodged a bullet on that one!!!

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Jul 2005 14:36

I've got another question.

Bum wrote:And whether or not you guys like it, I did show you all how to play, and in a month we're going to have official positions with our official club, minutes and all that jazz, and I'm going to be president officially, as I have been unnofficially since we launched the website in 2002. Take a look at it, see the title, and stop getting uselessly annoyed when I make proclaimations for your own good.

So does this mean that since you taught some people to play that:

1. They owe you something and have to follow you?

or

2. You are entitled to be over them?

stva · Post by **stva** » 14 Jul 2005 15:40

(wait unitl saturday, wait until saturday, wait until saturday)

(good air in, bad air out)

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Jul 2005 15:44

Just let it out. It's not good to keep that anger inside. It helped me.

Sporatical_Distractions · Post by **Sporatical_Distractions** » 14 Jul 2005 16:26

FootbagginBum wrote:And for the rest of the communities reference (no offence taken toward Brad just for reference, he's only got good things to say as well), I normally don't treat the club like this or talk in any other manner than is displayed in my frequent posts around the forum. I only get authoritarian when people start dissenting from me when I'm only saying things that are for there own good. And for any of you who really want an insight on why I take the lead, read Plato's Republic and take it to heart, for its one of the most important documents in western history and will be the basis of my doctoral thesis (I believe). Things are better when a philosopher is in charge, because they will consider the whole picture rather than their own interests from a subjective point of view.

(the following is based solely on my observations from past threads)

bum, i consider you a friend and all, but here are my thoughts. You are not doing what's good for them at this moment and you are sounding rather dictatorial. It's great that you're a philosophy major and have an open mind, but that aspect is not coming into play at all right now. You are not considering the whole picture and you are looking at it from an extremely subjective view. The club may have been organizing there for ten years but maybe it's time for a change, if even just twice a month or so. What's wrong with change? You guys need to just sit down together and organize your thoughts face to face so that everyone is happy with the outcomes. This will not get resolved until everyone is happy. Even if that means adjusting dates and meeting places on your website

footbag is just a game. It was meant to be fun. If people are unhappy then footbag has failed its duty

edit: more to say

I'm going to use our club as an example. I consider Evan Lovely, Ben Little, and Ty Grogan to be my "teachers". they told me how to start and how to do moves better. But we all play an equal role in running the club. Even the "newbs" who have only been with us for a few months play an equal role. We all gather together once a semester and go over times we are all free, when we play, times we'd like to play at, and different places to kick at. There's nothing like kicking at different locations. there's a whole new feel to all of these places. Plus, there are multiple spots to kick at that have not only a great surface, but can widely be seen by the public to expand the sport we call footbag.

stva · Post by **stva** » 14 Jul 2005 16:36

If I could type out that little grunt/yell I use to catch footbag tosses with a butterfly, I would.

......ok, I will

ROWWWLLLL!!!!!

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Jul 2005 17:23

Bum wrote:The only signifigance of Saturday is that is when the UNLV meeting is, and I made special arrangements for people to have meetings elsewhere during the week, but the "official", posted on the website, told to all the hacky sackers, advertised meeting is held on Saturday from 1:00-4:20 on the amphitheatre on the campus, has been for 10 years, and will be as long as I'm in charge.

Ya, the website that hasn't been updated for over 3 years and I highly, highly doubt that anyone actually looks at it anymore, much less comes to UNLV because they saw it on the website.

Bum wrote:And whether or not you guys like it, I did show you all how to play, and in a month we're going to have official positions with our official club, minutes and all that jazz, and I'm going to be president officially, as I have been unnofficially since we launched the website in 2002. Take a look at it, see the title, and stop getting uselessly annoyed when I make proclaimations for your own good.

I took a look at it, I saw the title, and it said "Site Manager". That means you manage the footbag website......

Which hasn't been updated in 3 years.....

So it looks like you can't even do your "official" job. Why do you think you could be "president" of the club, if you can't even keep the website updated?

Let me see if I can find who, if anyone, should be president....hmmm...oh here ya go!

Zomibes Website wrote:The Club was first founded under the name "Las Vegas Footbag Club" by Mike Taber in 1992.

Wait! Isn't your name Loren Baum? Oh ya it is, so I guess you don't have first dibs on president then.

HG · Post by HG » 14 Jul 2005 18:55

EDITED FOR CONTENT NOT NEEDED IN A BLOG

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 14 Jul 2005 19:33

Henry did u censor your own post? Lol I sure as hell did'nt

.

I think you guys are ripping yourselves apart with all this hostility, talking about it on the forum is like talking behind Lorens back WHERE HE CAN SEE IT. By the beard of Zeus! Go and TALK TO LOREN!!! Sitting here whining on the forum won't help your situation, only worsen it and make Loren more angry!

I will be honest guys, I don't think you (mainly Ben) would be anywhere near as good as you are without Loren.
Ben, you are extreamly good for how long you have been playing, so is Anssi... you have had Loren around to influence your game in many ways and Anssi has had Felix. I am not saying the reason your good is from Loren's help, it could be simply that you have more to compete with than most people, but in any event I believe he has helped you.

Look at Henry Griese, he plays for an insane amount of time and has'nt been playing all that long, but he has nobody better than him to play with so (in my opinion) he is'nt as good as you are Anssi or other commited players with personal contact with very good players.

[/opinion]

professor · Post by **professor** » 14 Jul 2005 19:48

I didn't say he didn't influence me, but he didn't teach/show me how to play footbag. I came to him already knowing all my 2's and some 3's so he didn't teach me how to play, but yes him being better than me has helped me get better. The only thing I distinctly remember him taking time out to teach me was to pixie.

Nobody doubts that he has been a positive influence in our lives, but he doesn't have to act this way.

Also, we have discussed this before, I've told him how I felt before any of this came up.

Zeke · Post by **Zeke** » 14 Jul 2005 19:48

written about 15 posts ago...

[Loren,] If it's worth anything to you, I totaly respect what you do for your club and your footbag scene. It really sucks when [it seems] your hard work and effort goes unappreciated. I think its takes at least one person with the charisma, drive and dedication to make a club work. I think we both understand [or believe] that if no one else took the initiative to make things happen for our respective groups then absolutely nothing happens. The clubs don't grow and the scene becomes stagnant or dies. The way I see it, if more people took some responsibility and started doing more for the club then our jobs would be easier and we could all spend more time kicking and chilling out.

I love my club and all the members are like family to me. But I want it to be more than just a bunch of guys that kick around a hacky and sometimes I feel like I'm the only one putting any effort into that and it gets frustrating. [Perhaps it's becuase I'm the only one with this vision

] Shit... sorry

Ok, back to my point. If there's anything I've learned, it's that communication and compromise are key. Not everyone shares the same ideas and goals even within the same club and you have to be willing to talk and work things out, even if it means you have to sacrifice for the greater good of the club. Hope some of this was of any help. I hope you guys can work it out and come to a quick resolution to all this, if you haven't already

bigdirtyfoot · Post by **bigdirtyfoot** » 14 Jul 2005 20:06

Oh, my goodness this is ridiculous. I thought you were going to solve this on Saturday. Here's what you need to do.

1. Stop talking on the forum about this. The main reason I'd suggest this is that it's not real time and therefore to solve a problem within a group I wouldn't suggest it because it would be much better to talk in person.
2. Loren, you foot their gas bill on Saturday and y'all talk it out in person.
3. NW guys: explain to Loren that he needs to listen to you because the club is in the "ownership" of the group, not of one person or a small sect of people. You're both wrong right now in the way you're approaching it.
4. Give-and take. Loren to be honest right now you're taking a lot more than you're giving. You don't need to know about the sessions you can't attend unless they hit cool stuff. Sure, it would be great if they communicated with you better about when they were going to have a session, but you don't HAVE to know. Do you feel like you're not being included? That's what it sounds like.
5. My personal solution for this would be to have multiple kicking places and times, and if that means that you all get to play less together as the Zombies, then so be it. I think refusing to switch up a Saturday session is kind of ridiculous. I've looked at the Las Vegas site a few times. This brings me to my next unrelated point.
6. A few months ago a guy named Anthony Sandoval called me and told me he was training for the marines and was from the Las Vegas area. He's on your site. Have you heard from him lately? He was really into footbagging, and I have no idea where he is or what he's up to.
7. Traditions are cool. You still need to play at UNLV, if it's important to the group. But not necessarily EVERY saturday.
8. On Saturday, exchange phone numbers and e-mail address with everyone. It will make things easier. Whenever you get new members, get their number/email.
9. Set up some sort of system to accept group dues. I think that's a great idea. Make your club a democracy though. Loren, don't assume you're already president! If for some reason some other people in your club don't want you to be president so be it. Don't throw a fit about it. If your club isn't working together then you won't get anything accomplished whatsoever.
10. This may seem really stupid, but do you all do stuff other than footbag together? It would help with bonding a lot, not between just the people on modified, but also the other circle kickers y'all have come out. If you read Ken's blog you'll see that often they'll go out to eat together after a session. Y'all would get along a lot better if you had fun outside of the shred zone as well, I would think.

I doubt any of this will help you and you guys (especially Ben and Loren) seem just as stubborn as I am about some things and so basically you need to have a long talk on Saturday and agree on some things. That's the only way it'll get resolved. DON'T give up before Saturday though. I mean, it's TOMORROW. Just one more day. Good luck.

*This tape will explode in 5 seconds*

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 14 Jul 2005 20:17

Yeah totally. Pick up a phone and call each other. You're achieving nothing by talking about this on this forum.

You're all just succeeding in making yourselves look immature in the eyes of the world. Believe it or not, there are people who read these forums occasionally who have an influence on where 2007 worlds will take place, and people who read this forum who will also be attempting to hold the 2007. You're doing yourselves no favours by bickering in the manner that you are. At least if you kept it private people wouldn't see it and if you got things under control you'd still have a chance of holding the 2007 worlds.