Why don't Americans have universal healthcare?

HG · Post by HG » 29 Jun 2007 17:50

I'm pretty sure these are the smiley's that indicate jokes:

This is the smiley face that indicates you are a heartless asshole:

Nathan · Post by **Nathan** » 29 Jun 2007 21:28

fred, no offense or anything, but your posts are so random and often offensive thats its hard to tell whats serious and what's not.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 30 Jun 2007 07:21

also, that was not sarcasm. if you think that it WAS, tell me what you meant that was different from the exact words that you said. you said "kill off all the retards and sick people." in order for that to be sarcastic, you must have had a usually ironic meaning that was generally the opposite of what you actually said. so saying it was sarcastic implies that you made a post that basically said "dont kill off the retarded or sick people." which seems like a pretty foolish post in of itself. which is what it ACTUALLY was. it wasnt sarcasm, it was just foolishness. you were being intentionally foolish. you may not think the difference is important, but i can still make fun of you for it, so its important to me.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 30 Jun 2007 07:23

and also, its a bit of a pet peeve of mine when people use sarcasm as a blanket term for generally dumbassery, because it makes them look marginally better.

Switch Kicker · Post by **Switch Kicker** » 30 Jun 2007 20:49

Holy shit... I'm just gonna walk away from this one. You guys can sit here and flame away all you want. Either way, you don't fuckin' know what the hell I meant, so quit thinking you know what's going on in my own head, opposed to what I say is going on. God damn dikes.

Not reading another reply, so don't even bother.

dp · Post by dp » 30 Jun 2007 20:59

Switch Kicker wrote: quit thinking you know what's going on in my own head

Seeing as how you're almost certainly going to read this reply, my whole response I didn't think I knew what was going on in your head.

"kill off all the retards and sick people."

I'm pretty sure no one knows whats going on in your head.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 01 Jul 2007 13:55

yeah. thats not a place i want to be either.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 01 Jul 2007 20:22

You know though, killing off the retarded,birth-defective people and babies is a popular ,recurring idea since probably 50 years before the Nazis.

Genomics was mainstream science for a long time.

Racial purity ,and elimination of un-desireable genetic races and illnesses, was all the rage.

Genomics got all the research money.

Dissenters got none.

The debate was over, genomics was truth.

So cut SwitchKicker a break, when he jokes about the mass murder that many treehuggers and vegans, secretly believe in.

-n

Frank_Sinatra · Post by **Frank_Sinatra** » 02 Jul 2007 12:13

HighDemonslayer wrote:

So cut SwitchKicker a break, when he jokes about the mass murder that many treehuggers and vegans, secretly believe in.

-n

Is there a secret contest going on to see who can post the stupidest comment?

Yep, those vegans, always plotting mass murder... while eating their sprouts...

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 02 Jul 2007 13:36

Plotting, is not the same as agreeing with lines of thought that can progress to the unthinkable.

The value of a human life can mean less to some people, than a tree, or a dog, for example. Especially if its a sick human.

I'm sure me, you, switch kicker, and 98% of the forum probably abhors the thought of eliminating mass swathes of the world population to cheapen healthcare, or "Save the Earth".

Do doubt , though, many of the elite and powerful people in the world (the ones responsible for your healthcare) believe that the world needs to be "thinned out".

So providing decent healthcare is the last of their priorities.

Devious, evil people like that almost always know better than to
get up at the podium and specifically call for killing 3 billion people.
Except this guy: http://www.sas.org/tcs/weeklyIssues_200 ... index.html

You might not expect a horrendously painful ,and agonizing virus be the proposed solution.

Nor would you expect a vigorous, standing ovation from the crowd.

Now that i think of it, i bet that crowd was filled with health-care officials from across the country, lol

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 02 Jul 2007 22:30

Actually you have a good point about the govt. view on population. We are numbers not people.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 06 Jul 2007 06:55

Bagira wrote:
janis wrote:
If people only demanded less treatment, the situation would be far simpler.
"Let them eat cake" he says.
Rather just disallow them from knowingly engaging in an unhealthy lifestyle and then clogging the health care system with their problems that could have been easily prevented.

He was making a joke about Marie Antoinette

Bagira wrote:
janis wrote:
3. I hate to be morbid and cynical, but to play Devil's advocate, considering that we live in a capitalist society, isn't it normal and even GOOD that someone is able to get that treatment while another isn't, of which the chances of getting it are determined by their willingness to pay the money demanded of them.
As you are playing the Devil's advocate you would already realise just how morally absurd that argument is.
I understand that certainly it's absurd because it is immoral...but then again, morality means little in a world that can't be perfect because of human nature. Supreme logic kills morality and reigns in its stead.

I prefer the immoral, but concretely logical answer.

Ironically I can't see your logic.

Bagira wrote:
janis wrote:Just remember that most of the 40 million people who can't afford healthcare in the US work full time at essential jobs that cannot pay enough to get them health care. Yet it is these people who support the lifestyles of the wealthier people in the population. These people are the true philanthropists, they donate their time and effort to society, and I say donate because they certainly aren't paid fairly for their work. Many people have to do crap jobs, garbage removal, cleaning, etc, so that wealthier people can have their lifestyles. Doesn't the US promise a decent standard of living in return for hard work? These workers have earned their right to healthcare by doing essential and undesirable jobs to support the economy and the community. Further, there is money in the economy to pay them. Their healthcare would be covered by having the top 2 percent of the community paying the taxes that they used to pay and the taxes they avoid paying. It is only fair that the wealthy pay for their own lifestyles and that people who provide those lifestyles get paid fairly for it.
You do realize that it's generally the physically easy work that pays the most, right? It's been like that throughout history.

Maybe an exception was the Soviet Union, in that factory foremen and engineers made less than the labourers in clean money, but, again, the whole system ran on bribery. The foreman would manage to get something extra if he was smart. In any case, the party officials got paid the most, and they did the least work of all kinds.

You're imagining that you should be living in a Utopia. But that Utopia is simply impossible. There will always be peons.

I disagree with alot you said but primarily your last sentence. The use of machinese to automate tasks is increasing constantly and although we have a long way to go, it cannot be denied that living standards are improving. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that there won't 'always be peons'.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Jul 2007 14:42

American's don't have Universal healthcare because it's stuff like that that makes American's hard, while European's and Canadian's soft. It's also the reason we're on top.

################1

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 06 Jul 2007 18:14

crazylegs32 · Post by **crazylegs32** » 12 Jul 2007 19:19

If we had free healthcare then we would be even fatter

StephenT91 · Post by **StephenT91** » 03 Aug 2007 12:20

Because if we had universal healthcare, all doctors would get paid the same even if they were the best and dealt with 5 million patients a day and cured every one, or if they were the worst and dealt with 10 and killed half of them.

Without universal health care, doctors are motivated (by money) to be better than the rest.

The healthcare system here is pretty shitty, but most americans are lazy and fat, and if universal healthcare was put forth, doctors wouldn't do shit because they would know that they would be stuck with the same pay anyways.

It's pretty sad really... but it's how greedy people are.

There would be good doctors that are good because they want to help people, but they would be so booked that you'd have to know you had your broken leg way before you broke it. Which is usually hard to know. I never would have tried to skate that ledge to a disaster rail.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 18 Aug 2007 06:56

StephenT91 wrote:Because if we had universal healthcare, all doctors would get paid the same even if they were the best and dealt with 5 million patients a day and cured every one, or if they were the worst and dealt with 10 and killed half of them.

Australia has universal health care, and different doctors are paid more. In Australia you can go to a private practice and pay more, or you can go to a public hospital, and not pay anything at all.

Without universal health care, doctors are motivated (by money) to be better than the rest.

What's your evidence for this? Would you agree that there are people in the world who don't base their actions on money? Right now I'm working 6 days a week - over 50 hours in a job where I could be paid literally twice as much to do the same job at a bank or a big business (and have to work less), but I choose to stay where I'm working, because I don't need more money, and I really strongly believe in the cause I work for (an environmental charity). Would you agree that there are plenty of doctors who want to cure cancer because they want to save lives, and not because they want to be rich?

Speaking of curing cancer, Ian Frazer essentially found a cure for cervical cancer and in 2006 was awarded for his efforts by receiving the Australian of The Year Award. Why didn't an American, without universal health care, discover the cure? Are Australians just more intelligent, or is your claim that doctors need to be motivated by money completely false?

The healthcare system here is pretty shitty, but most americans are lazy and fat, and if universal healthcare was put forth, doctors wouldn't do shit because they would know that they would be stuck with the same pay anyways.

It's pretty sad really... but it's how greedy people are.

No, that's how greedy Americans are. You preach to the world about freedom, but what you mean by freedom, is the freedom not to share with people. You're the fattest country in the world, you're one of the most polluting countries in the world, you use more water, more oil and more electricity than any other country in the world. You can't call the rest of the world greedy, the rest of the world has higher life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates, uses less resources, and has universal health care. It is America that is greedy, and you're fat and dying younger because of it.

There would be good doctors that are good because they want to help people, but they would be so booked that you'd have to know you had your broken leg way before you broke it. Which is usually hard to know. I never would have tried to skate that ledge to a disaster rail.

There are plenty of doctors like that. Try going to another developed country in the world.

Blue_turnip · Post by **Blue_turnip** » 18 Aug 2007 08:41

Jeremy wrote:
StephenT91 wrote:Because if we had universal healthcare, all doctors would get paid the same even if they were the best and dealt with 5 million patients a day and cured every one, or if they were the worst and dealt with 10 and killed half of them.
Australia has universal health care, and different doctors are paid more. In Australia you can go to a private practice and pay more, or you can go to a public hospital, and not pay anything at all.

Without universal health care, doctors are motivated (by money) to be better than the rest.
What's your evidence for this? Would you agree that there are people in the world who don't base their actions on money? Right now I'm working 6 days a week - over 50 hours in a job where I could be paid literally twice as much to do the same job at a bank or a big business (and have to work less), but I choose to stay where I'm working, because I don't need more money, and I really strongly believe in the cause I work for (an environmental charity). Would you agree that there are plenty of doctors who want to cure cancer because they want to save lives, and not because they want to be rich?

Speaking of curing cancer, Ian Frazer essentially found a cure for cervical cancer and in 2006 was awarded for his efforts by receiving the Australian of The Year Award. Why didn't an American, without universal health care, discover the cure? Are Australians just more intelligent, or is your claim that doctors need to be motivated by money completely false?

The healthcare system here is pretty shitty, but most americans are lazy and fat, and if universal healthcare was put forth, doctors wouldn't do shit because they would know that they would be stuck with the same pay anyways.

It's pretty sad really... but it's how greedy people are.
No, that's how greedy Americans are. You preach to the world about freedom, but what you mean by freedom, is the freedom not to share with people. You're the fattest country in the world, you're one of the most polluting countries in the world, you use more water, more oil and more electricity than any other country in the world. You can't call the rest of the world greedy, the rest of the world has higher life expectancies, lower infant mortality rates, uses less resources, and has universal health care. It is America that is greedy, and you're fat and dying younger because of it.

There would be good doctors that are good because they want to help people, but they would be so booked that you'd have to know you had your broken leg way before you broke it. Which is usually hard to know. I never would have tried to skate that ledge to a disaster rail.
There are plenty of doctors like that. Try going to another developed country in the world.

Oh my god, pure ownage. GOod thing you beat me to responding, because my retort could never have been half as good.

Rieferman · Post by **Rieferman** » 11 Sep 2007 05:45

Apparently Jeremy knows just about everything about just about every topic. I vote Jeremy to run the world, and then it will all work perfectly.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 11 Sep 2007 06:44

At least I don't resort to stupid insults because I'm too stupid to be able to respond to the actual topic being discussed.