Is catching necessary for sick 3?

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 23 Jan 2006 17:28

tonight i finally hit my sick 3, but i am faced with somewhat of a dilemma. I hit it twice, both on tape, but the first one i hit much cleaner and i dont catch the bag after. On the second one i hit, i catch the bag after but my duck is much more sloppy(it looks like i add in a neck stall but i dont) and my butterfly is a lil off balance.

Should i go with the one where its much more styley and no catch, or sloppier with a catch?

hackeysnacker · Post by **hackeysnacker** » 23 Jan 2006 17:32

do it clean AND catch it

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 23 Jan 2006 17:34

i can try, but it took me soo many tries to hit it, and i may not be able to again due to time restraints and midterms. If i cant, i have the two vids and i dun know which one to use.

Zjeezy · Post by **Zjeezy** » 23 Jan 2006 17:44

from what i know all you technically need is a seal, a seal could be just and inside kick or a catch. but i know some people who like to see with a butterfly or and osis to make it really count. as far as competetion goes you need a kick or a catch for a seal.

Tripp · Post by **Tripp** » 23 Jan 2006 18:34

I hit my Sick 1 and didn't get the hand catch. I think the trick is pretty big, and I twisted my back pretty badly after a few more attempts, so I said screw it and submitted it anyways. If he doesn't put it up, maybe I'll get it on film better for next month.

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 23 Jan 2006 18:41

BalinorNZ wrote:Hey dude,
Enter which ever one you like! You don't actually have to seal the combo for it to be counted, if you seal it or pretty much seal it (but fumble and drop it or something) then you should get the same score, if the bag flies away and you can't seal it then you will just get marked down for execution

Can't wait to see you entrys!
Cheers,
Nic Bathgate

that is a PM i just got from Nic, and according to him THE COMBO DOES NOT HAVE TO BE COMPLETELY SEALED! Which means that i am going to enter the cleaner one, and i shouldnt get a different score because i miss the stupid catch! Thankyou for clearing everything up Nic.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 23 Jan 2006 18:47

yes but more people will vote for a sealed sick three, so if you care about getting votes (you may not...it wouldnt be unheard of) you may want to try to seal it

Uranos · Post by **Uranos** » 23 Jan 2006 18:49

Yeah i agree. Also it depends on the circumstances on why you didnt catch it i think. If the execution of your trick was good and the bag was there for you to catch and you didnt because you were too happy and didnt care or because you cant cath

, then i think thats ok.
However if you had to reach out and dive to catch your move and didnt, then you could probably say your trick wasn't executed well and therefore it shouldnt really count.

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 23 Jan 2006 19:22

my move hit me in the face, then bounced off my hand and hit the floor

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 23 Jan 2006 19:42

Yeah what Troy said is how it is. I am following a similar system to what was used at Australian nationals.

"You don't actually have to seal the combo for it to be counted, if you seal it or pretty much seal it (but fumble and drop it or something) then you should get the same score, if the bag flies away and you can't seal it then you will just get marked down for execution

"

Since you have as many tries as you like, you should try to maximise your execution score by hitting your combo perfectly, but if you can't for one reason or another, ofcourse you can still enter it! A poorly executed combo will get you a lot further than nothing

.

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 23 Jan 2006 21:42

BalinorNZ wrote:
"You don't actually have to seal the combo for it to be counted, if you seal it or pretty much seal it (but fumble and drop it or something) then you should get the same score, if the bag flies away and you can't seal it then

I couldn't disagree with this more. No seal= no combo. What kind of standards are we setting for ourselves? Standards have been too loose for Sick3s already (thes and slops have been looked over at Worlds the last 2 years. and several blatantly the tricks on the online comps have been given good marks). If you can't seal a trick, you didn't hit it. Same goes for combos.

Ultimately, it's Nic's discretion what to put in the video. But as voters, we determine who wins. Personally, if I see somebody who thes a trick or can't seal a combo, I'm putting them last. They shouldn't even BE in the comp, but if they are, they're coming last.

SlashC · Post by **SlashC** » 23 Jan 2006 21:55

This issue came up at the shredmonton sick3 comp. A lot of players had "unsealed" combos that rolled off their feet at varying heights. (Anywhere from below knee height to about waste height) Byrin had a really nice combo and it came almost straight back up, but he knocked it into the ground with his hand when he tried to grab it. Where do you draw the line between unsealed and just plain miss? If a player rolls a stall away from them and swipes it with their finger nail is that a valid sick3? Ultimately, the judges decided that all unsealed combos would be disqualified from the competition.

hackeysnacker · Post by **hackeysnacker** » 23 Jan 2006 22:28

if u keep working on sealing it the worst that could happen is improvement

On the subject of standards; standards are in place so that people elevate their skills - whatever you do try to do it well enough so that you don't have to question the results.

footjoe · Post by **footjoe** » 24 Jan 2006 04:30

just go to a string , wouldnt you rather having a sick ass combo starting a string than just it being a combo and nothing else , sure alot of people can hit a move and catch it but i think moving to a string is neatso-peetzo

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 24 Jan 2006 06:26

You don't hit it if you don't seal it.
If you accidently drop a controlled hand catch, that's an other thing.

Asmus · Post by **Asmus** » 24 Jan 2006 07:11

If somebody posted a sick3 with no seal - I would only count the two first moves!

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 24 Jan 2006 11:46

if i accidentally dropped a very simple hand catch, i cant see how someone could vote me less because of it. I can understand having an uncontrolled set that you cant catch, but in my case it hit me in the head(a possible seal?) then hits my hand and i drop the bag. Its very clear that i could have cought the bag, but i didnt because i plainly missed the catch. In my circumstances i dont see why someone would place me lower because the bag hits off my hand and i miss the catch, it just seems pointless.

dazza · Post by **dazza** » 24 Jan 2006 13:14

SlashC wrote:.. Byrin had a really nice combo and it came almost
straight back up, but he knocked it into the ground with his hand when
he tried to grab it.

It sucks when that happens, sure .
If somebody at training hits a move/combo and knocks down the bag
instead of hand catching it, i still would give him the credits for hitting it
In any other context, where there is any sort of public or competition involved, i definitly would do so, because "drawing the line between
unsealed and a plain miss" is indeed difficult .

Like Ken said, all the elements have to be there and the combo has to be sealed - imo the seal is the thing making it legit and props-worthy -
you hit something good with all elements executed well and
you have enough control to finish it with a simple hand catch at least .

This is an online comp, where everybody has way more tries than in any
face to face situation, so the standards should be higher here, not
lower.
Hitting yourself in the head and dropping the handcatch doesnt give me
the idea of a good execution .

Troyson · Post by **Troyson** » 24 Jan 2006 15:35

problem solved!!!

i just hit my sick3...with a hand catch, so now no one can bitch about me not having a catch

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 24 Jan 2006 16:19

I think one of the problems with footbag, and especially Sick3, is the all or nothing approach.

In a diving competition, if one of your spins is out or you make a bad water entry and the splash is too big, your dive isn't 'not counted', you just lose points in execution.

I think it should be the same in footbag, nobody can do a combo perfect every time, infact it's very rare to see something hit 'perfectly' when the trick is hard for the person.

These are online competitions, you have as many turns as you want to hit your combo, so it is best to try get full points for execution.
However unsealed, thin and even the entrys will be allowed in the competition, but they will certainly have a low score for execution.

For example, if Vasek enters with montage > whirlwind > montage rake and Bill enters with butterfly > pdx mirage > dlo, Bill performs his perfectly, but Vasek 'the's the dex on montage rake, this is what should happen in the scoring:

Vasek= Difficulty 5.7/6 Origionality 3.3/6 Execution: 4/6 Total: 13
Bill= Difficulty 0.5/6 Origionaly 3.3/6 Execution: 6/6 Total: 9.8

Vasek still wins, as he should because his combo is vastly harder than Bill's even with no dex on the montage rake, but he doesn't get scored as highly so someone hitting a similar combo, but cleanly, would beat Vasek.

modified

Is catching necessary for sick 3?

Is the catch necessary?

Is catching necessary for sick 3?