kerry and bush debate

RRW13 · Post by **RRW13** » 29 Sep 2004 18:05

Just to let everyone know tomorrow night is one of the few debates between John kerry and Gerorge Bush. i heard that the topic is mainly about the war for tomorrow.

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 30 Sep 2004 02:58

yeah, the 90-minute debate is solely on foreign policy. In Canada we don't get the same attention to this stuff, so I was thinking to myself, "I wonder if the US media will cover it like a sporting event," referring to the sensationalism of politics. And today I saw this:

I dont expect it to really be covered like this, but I can picture it now... (deep raspy voice screaming) "Did you see that REBUTTAL?!! This is going to be a MAJOR blow to the home team, Bob."

I'll probably record it. I know who I'm voting for, but it should be entertaining.

ashleyd · Post by **ashleyd** » 30 Sep 2004 14:08

i cant wait....

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 30 Sep 2004 14:41

pill · Post by **pill** » 30 Sep 2004 18:29

man that'd be so funny if it because a total sporting event. they both come out like boxers, intro music, in robes, and everything, man that'd be funny =P

Flipsider · Post by **Flipsider** » 30 Sep 2004 18:43

I have a general rule: NEVER LISTEN TO POST-DEBATE ANALYSIS. You know what you saw and heard; make up your own mind.

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 30 Sep 2004 18:48

Ellis wrote: I know who I'm voting for, but it should be entertaining.

How are you voting?

C-Fan · Post by **C-Fan** » 30 Sep 2004 18:49

Flipsider wrote:I have a general rule: NEVER LISTEN TO POST-DEBATE ANALYSIS. You know what you saw and heard; make up your own mind.

I try not to post my political thoughts on the forums anymore, but when I read this, I had to post.

This is the wisest thing I have read on the forums, nay, on the internet, in a long LOOOOONG time. Great tip.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 30 Sep 2004 18:53

I second that, Ken. Political analysis by talking heads only seems to rile people up in my and polarize them, imo. How can you take these people seriously? They never cede points. If you talk to people you know, you'll have a chance to communicate your points and reach a middle ground... You know, like Socrates? Yeah, I think Socrates had his shit straight about that. :-p It seems like when people watch these shows on television analysing politics, you only end up yelling at the television.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 30 Sep 2004 18:54

type *rile people up and polarize them

No edit in the discussion section?

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 01 Oct 2004 10:24

Right Ellis and Ken. They call the reporting after the debate the spin room, or the spin show, because that is exactly what it is "Spin".

I had to disagree with many Bush supporters on why they thought Bush won the debate. Bush lost the debate. He was not focused on the debate as a platform for debate (if that makes any sense). Instead he took a reactionary position to the attacks made by Kerry.

I was very impressed with Kerry as a public speaker and admire his debating tactics and the way he was able to use his opponents wording in his favor. That is a true debating skill that Bush lacks.

However, the content of the debate was not as impressive from Kerry as it was from Bush. Bush made it firm what his intentions are and did not waffle from them once. Kerry however, back pedaled to previous questions to add comment while attacking Bush's judgement in past decisions. I would have liked to have seen him make more specific comments towards his ambitions rather than simply lay them on the table.

One point that I was dissapointed with from Bush was the comment about N. Korea that was repeated from Kerry. Leaving Bi-lateral talks out of it (cause I agree with Bush that this only creates an easy out for Korea), Kerry drove home the message that indeed N. Korea posses a greater threat than Bush would have us beleave. I would have liked to have seen Bush tackle that without criticising Kerry's position of bi-lateral talks. To me that was a diversion from the question regarding N. Korea.

All in all, I thought it was a very interesting debate, with Kerry successfully getting under Bush's skin and frankly out debating him with 20 years of experience. However, I feel that it is vital to hear the debate on the budget in order to see how well Kerry will be able to pull off his lofty ambitions. This could be a turning point for many undecideds.

jon · Post by **jon** » 01 Oct 2004 10:28

i see the point of not watching post debate talk but more talk is never a bad thing as long you are informed and are able to stick to your own ideas, ignoring others views is not a great move no matter how stupid they may seem

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 01 Oct 2004 10:41

FlexThis wrote: One point that I was dissapointed with from Bush was the comment about N. Korea that was repeated from Kerry. Leaving Bi-lateral talks out of it (cause I agree with Bush that this only creates an easy out for Korea), Kerry drove home the message that indeed N. Korea posses a greater threat than Bush would have us beleave.

Kerry drove home the point that a country that was put on the "axis of evil" was not involved in discussions for two years, and as a consequence of the Bush doctrine of non-dialog, NOW HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS. They didn't have them after the s-11 attacks. They didn't have them when Bush listed them as part of the axis of evil. N. Korea becoming a nuclear threat is a direct result of
1) Being grouped in an axis of evil
2) Break down of the diplomatic process.
3) Bush's lack of desire to hold summits and discuss international events with world leaders.

Bush made it clear in the debate that people who don't agree with him agitate him to no end. Clearly he is not suitable to debate policy with foreign leaders, if his view is the only one he can understand. His policies have made the world and america less safe, and no amount of money gained through a tax cut is going to make us safer.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 01 Oct 2004 11:33

I agree Cameron. N. Korea was a big issue that went ...

At least comment. N. Korea did have at least 2 Nukes prior to 9/11. But 2 nukes is hardly 8 or more that they now posses.

And I agree with you that this is a direct result of a botched foreign policy with regard to N. Korea. Other than Russia, N. Korea has now made it clear they hold the bomb and intend to use it if necessary.

For once we agree on something political.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 13 Oct 2004 15:08

"Embryonic stem cell research destroys a life." " I am the first president to fund embryonic stem cell research." - George W Bush

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 13 Oct 2004 15:30

Stephen Barnes wrote:
Ellis wrote: I know who I'm voting for, but it should be entertaining.
How are you voting?

ya... how are you voteing you live in Canada ? im confussed

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 13 Oct 2004 15:35

Pre-debate analysis is also total crap.

They assign all the importance in the world to this debate, because they want you to watch them cover, and then dissect it.

Nobody gives a shit about the debates because they are not real debates.

Immigration is the elephant in the room that both candidates are terrified to talk about.

Probably the biggest issue in the state holding the debate, and there will not be one question about it.

If there is, neither will answer the question directly.

Bush will blather about how great his illegal amnesty program will be.

Kerry will say how it's not enough and he plans to give every Mexican citizen a house ,and a car, and a vote, in America.
-n

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 13 Oct 2004 15:36

Sorry Ellis, I already filled out an absentee ballot in your name and voted for Bush.

-n

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 13 Oct 2004 18:08

Hey! they actually did get asked about the border.

I didn't hear it all, but Kerry did sound tough, explaining the problem correctly, saying that he'll do something about it.

But I know he wont do shit about it. It's popular tonight to talk tough about it.

Bush's response was totally weak. He brags about the border being more secure, that he knows how bad it is.
If he DOES really know, then his inaction on it is a failure of his duty.

Bush sure tries hard to answer the "gotcha" questions(like the flu vaccine) and sound totally compassionate.

Bush deserves to lose this debate, you can't allow hostile moderators from hostile networks the power to set you up.

They should have had Al Franken be the moderator. It would have been more annoying, but more entertaining.

-n

millenniumtree · Post by **millenniumtree** » 13 Oct 2004 22:25

Bush totally bombed on the flu vaccine question. Kerry did pretty well, but you could tell neither one of them was particularly prepared for that question. Kerry improv'ed extremely well, but Bush just stood there slack-jawed for a few seconds before saying anything...

I'm in Wisconsin, which will get a very close run, so I'm DEFINITELY voting for Kerry on the 2nd. Wisconsin isn't worth too many electoral votes, but every little bit counts. I can't wait to see how The big states vote... It would be pretty funny if both Texas and Florida voted Kerry. He'd be in for sure then. :P