Stepping-Atomic (Shooting)

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 15 Oct 2004 12:08

Stepping-Atomic (Shooting)
CLIP > OP IN [DEX] > OP OUT [PDX][DEX] >>

Have you ever seen a clean shooting set?

I havent.

Why do people practice such hard shooting moves when the set is unclean on every attempt? Its either:

1) Too far behind, where both legs pass over + forward, and plant at the same time (which should not happen), and its super easy to see the "the".

2) The pogo is slurry. Harder to spot, but easily seen in slomo.

Ideally, both knees should raise very high to do the dexes properly, i believe. I cant do it clean (i slur the pogo), but im sure thats how you get it better.

Anyone got a vid. of a clean one? Id like to see it..

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Oct 2004 13:03

I think you have too high of expectations. There is nothing wrong with both legs planting at the same time. If I was trying a stepping atomic set THEN it would be the.
I don't see a problem with the bag appearing behind either, I think that's just how the set looks. It goes behind both knees, and since people are doing dexes after it .. .. clearly it's in front of the body. I've seen some where the bag is behind the players ass . . . that's the

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 15 Oct 2004 14:21

I disagree. Both your legs should definetly not plant at the same time. Think about it: One of your legs has a short symposium hop to do, the other has to do a nuclear set.. How can both land on the ground at the same time? They shouldn't. What would you think about a frontside symp. sailing set with both dexes planted at the same time? Pretty weird huh? Proabbly the.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Oct 2004 14:32

How you approach the trick is fundamentally different that how I approach the trick.

I. . . pogo),

I don't do the first dex symposium, at all . . . I launch into a symple butterfly after I do the blur set . . . the second dex is most like a symposium in the way I hit the set.

Hence, I am on one leg when I launch into the second dex, and on zero legs for the last dex . . . it just seem perfectly fine to me to land both legs at the same time.

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 15 Oct 2004 14:35

Hmm thats weirdm thats like a backside symp. version of the set. Unless im thinking about it wrong? Im thinking of it as a pogo nuclear.

Which one is the shooting set then?

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 15 Oct 2004 14:47

takes out bag . . .

ok. So On one side, I do it like a DLO set because I don't have a very solid atomic set or stepping set from that clipper, and on the other side it's definately pogo nuclear . . . hmmm.

On the pogo nuclear side the legs don't touch down at the same time, but on the DLO set side they are really close together.

The DLO side has an awkward shuffle of the feet, and the pogo nuclear feels like it would be easier, and also easier to slur . . .

james · Post by **james** » 15 Oct 2004 16:07

I will hit clean shooting because I have high standards, and I'm good.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 15 Oct 2004 16:46

Just because something isn't super clean that doesn't make it worthless.

There are many tricks I love that I hardly ever see and I actually feel GUILTY doing because they're damn near impossible to completely clean up. Thus, the empahsis on 'cleanliness' has in some ways (from my perspective) hurt the developement of style.

Cleanliness != style

Shooting = style

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 15 Oct 2004 16:49

Nice James!

I think my shooting set is sometimes clean. I've spent a lot of time working on my symp mirages - because I think most symp mirages are not as clean as they could be. I do my symp mirages by lifting my knee up and down - If you watch my head - it doesn't move up and down very much at all - so I'm not pushing off the ground - it's like a one footed tuck jump.

I also do my shooting set as two distinct movements - so it's pogo and then nuclear. I know that the set is sometimes slurry and I think it's a very fine line between a good shooting set and a slurry set. When I was first learning the set (at the last Aus Champs) - Ales said he thought it was clean - and he seems like a bit of an expert on cleanliness! If you check out my "promo" vid (this is oldish) you'll see that at one stage I start a run with a shooting butterfly (I'm not sure when exactly) - it's on my flipside and not as clean as my strong side - but I've gone through frame by frame and I think the bag is released from my clipper before the first dex and goes fairly straight up - so it's cleanish.

http://www.footbag.org/media/303/Promo3.WMV

edit: shooting at about 2:20

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 16 Oct 2004 08:52

I will check out that video and post my thoughts when I get back from work.

This is off-topic, but I have to say it:

Cleanliness != style

What? Excuse me? I cant believe you said that. CLEANLINESS = STYLE. EVERYTHING YOU DO = STYLE. Your style is a sum of your game as a whole, and cleanliness is definetly a part of that.

Something that is not clean IS worthless. Completely. Think about it this way: If its not clean, you didnt do the move. Period. Its a drop in my books. You went for some trick, and failed. If you clean the move up and hit it nice, good job, otherwise, work on it more.

Cleanliness is whats PROGRESSING the sport, not holding it back.

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 16 Oct 2004 09:33

I'm not a stickler on it, but I've agreed with you Nick. If I see people doing shooting, I usually give props because it does make it harder. I used to screw around with trying to make it clean, but it's so hard. I tried to really separate the components by doing a regular stepping set and then trying to do a really high nuclear dex. The goal was not trying to make my legs move in sync so I wouldn't slur the stepping, but I could never get the nuclear over quick enough. I could get my knee to it though. I think I'll try it again today.

On a technical level, is that a different set since the first dex isn't pogo? I plant my set leg before it starts the second dex.

james · Post by **james** » 16 Oct 2004 15:09

WOah that would be trippy, with a quick plant inbetween. Yeah I would consider it a new set. Stepping Nuclear, definitely sick. Please keep trying, because I will if you don't!

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 16 Oct 2004 17:36

yeah I have respect for people who try shooting - just because it's so hard to hit cleanly. I think that the reason why Nuclear is so much more popular than shooting is for that very reason - it's pretty hard to hit un unclean nuclear set without dropping the bag anyway - but relatively easy to hit unclean shooting stuff. That's why I hardly ever do shooting - especially on my flipside.

Also I think a symposium reverse wrapping inside fairy can still be pretty cool as long as the set goes straight up

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 16 Oct 2004 18:19

To make my point about style and cleanliness more clear...

Do you ever see anyone doing da-da curves? They're one of my favorite downtime components, but they don't exist in high level play because they give a cheeze add that isn't 'clean'. I'd bet that a strong player would be able to do a downtime miraging ss da-da, which I think would look sick. But it'll never happen, because there's a portion of the move that is fundamentally unclean. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? Whichever you choose, I think it's stlil a pretty clear example of how an over-emphasis on cleanliness can be detrimental to the aesthetics of the game (at least from my perspective).

On a quasi-related note, let me just say that I kind of feel like an idiot arguing about footbag style with Nick Laroche. Your own style is quite unique and is fantastic. Keep it up, and get filmed more.

bob · Post by **bob** » 16 Oct 2004 23:04

isn't it odd how dada are considered cheap, but if you add in another dex (making it a mofly) people fucking love it?

bob glasser

Senor Grommet · Post by **Senor Grommet** » 16 Oct 2004 23:09

yeah! Fuck mo-fly, haha . . . no offense JD or RM of Rain City Shred.