You know what I hate more than flame wars?
Civil arguments.
Go to hell guys.
www.shaggyhack.com
Colin Kennedy
[email protected]
[email protected]
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Spadrick
- Atomsmashasaurus Dex
- Posts: 859
- Joined: 04 May 2003 17:15
- Location: Toronto Ontario, Canada
Seath brings up a good point that I wanted to address, so I guess I'm not so done after all.
If they sell a bag for one dollar, they are making 60 Pakistan dollars. If they make an order for 100 footbags, to a wholesaler like shaggyhack, they are making 6000 Pakistan dollars. If they sell 200 orders a year, that 1 200 000 Pakistan dollars they would make.
Sounds like good business to me? And your point (Jeremy) "Paying such low prices keeps the nation poor - it doesn't help it at all." Is also faulty logic, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Paying ANYTHING to a Pakistan company is good for their business. Im sure in some cases you are right (Child labor/forced labor camps etc.) However I couldn't fathom how putting finances into a Pakistan company could be NEGATIVE in any way for the countries economy.
If they sell a bag for one dollar, they are making 60 Pakistan dollars. If they make an order for 100 footbags, to a wholesaler like shaggyhack, they are making 6000 Pakistan dollars. If they sell 200 orders a year, that 1 200 000 Pakistan dollars they would make.
Sounds like good business to me? And your point (Jeremy) "Paying such low prices keeps the nation poor - it doesn't help it at all." Is also faulty logic, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Paying ANYTHING to a Pakistan company is good for their business. Im sure in some cases you are right (Child labor/forced labor camps etc.) However I couldn't fathom how putting finances into a Pakistan company could be NEGATIVE in any way for the countries economy.
Adam Dexter
yeah that's kind of true - apart from the fact that 60 "Pakistani dollars" are worth 1 US dollar - so if you buy something in the US for $1 - chances are in Pakistan it will cost $60. That's why there is an exchange rate - so that things cost the same.
Sorry - in regard to the second question - as I've mentioned Pakistan is a very poor country. - So by paying people wages that match the current standard of living you are actually not doing anything to make things improve - you are injecting money - but it's only enough for them to be able to afford to continue living how they are - not enough for them to be able to improve their conditions.
If we look to history - because history is the most important subject you can learn at school (or at least that's my opinion on it) - then a great example is Japan.
After World War 2 Japan was a very poor country - not only were much of their population dead or so seriously effected that they couldn't work - but most of their infrastructure was destroyed as well. But they managed to become for sometime the biggest economic power in the world. They did this for two reasons. One – the US under Democrat and President Truman injected large amounts of funds into rebuilding the country. Too after this Japan began to produce goods because they could afford to pay their workers less – just like Pakistan. However rather than being exploited by the Western companies – like many Pakistani companies are – they actually competed against the Western companies and made big profits – which they then used to improve working conditions and turn the country into the economic superpower it was (and still is to some extent). This won’t happen in Pakistan or at all these days because of globalisation – if the Pakistani’s started charging more for their bags – another country that runs sweat shops and pays people criminal wages – lets say Australia – would overtake the market offering bags at the lower prices – the Pakistani’s would lose business – poverty would increase and Australia would go through the same thing.
This is why it is so important not to support sweat shop products – because if they lose their market – it will be cheaper to raise conditions where the factories are already set up then to move to a country when they have to improve their working conditions to get a market anyway.
I don’t know if I explained this well but hopefully somebody who is more eloquent than me and knows a lot about it can give a better explanation.
Sorry - in regard to the second question - as I've mentioned Pakistan is a very poor country. - So by paying people wages that match the current standard of living you are actually not doing anything to make things improve - you are injecting money - but it's only enough for them to be able to afford to continue living how they are - not enough for them to be able to improve their conditions.
If we look to history - because history is the most important subject you can learn at school (or at least that's my opinion on it) - then a great example is Japan.
After World War 2 Japan was a very poor country - not only were much of their population dead or so seriously effected that they couldn't work - but most of their infrastructure was destroyed as well. But they managed to become for sometime the biggest economic power in the world. They did this for two reasons. One – the US under Democrat and President Truman injected large amounts of funds into rebuilding the country. Too after this Japan began to produce goods because they could afford to pay their workers less – just like Pakistan. However rather than being exploited by the Western companies – like many Pakistani companies are – they actually competed against the Western companies and made big profits – which they then used to improve working conditions and turn the country into the economic superpower it was (and still is to some extent). This won’t happen in Pakistan or at all these days because of globalisation – if the Pakistani’s started charging more for their bags – another country that runs sweat shops and pays people criminal wages – lets say Australia – would overtake the market offering bags at the lower prices – the Pakistani’s would lose business – poverty would increase and Australia would go through the same thing.
This is why it is so important not to support sweat shop products – because if they lose their market – it will be cheaper to raise conditions where the factories are already set up then to move to a country when they have to improve their working conditions to get a market anyway.
I don’t know if I explained this well but hopefully somebody who is more eloquent than me and knows a lot about it can give a better explanation.
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HackyRichard
- BSOS Beast
- Posts: 491
- Joined: 02 Sep 2002 20:39
- Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Wait. You use your feet? That's against my morals. Don't you know about all the starving children in Africa? This raises another serious political discussion![/sarcasm]
Word. Now, if the bags were any good, they'd be able to raise the price by 1000% because they'd be in high demand.habitat wrote:If the bag sucks, end of discussion in my book, move onTWEAK wrote:The 32 panel that they sell on that site was my first footbag, and trust me it was shit.
Mike Stokely
Don't want to get involved too much in this discussion...
Jeremy, you got your morals right, and I'm serious about this. BUT...just about any product you are probably consuming is teignted with exploitation in one form or another. in fact if you go right down to it, the wealth of the western nations is probably mostly built on exploiting "3rd world" countries. take the war on iraq for instance...but no, we don't want to go into that again.
anywaya fault in your logic is saying that a $1 (US) is the same anywhere in the world. Simply go buy a burger at McDonalds in the States (a rich country) and in Switzerland (a VERY rich country) and you'll find that you pay about twice as much in Switzerland (converted in $!), if not more. Now consider that Pakistan is a VERY, VERY, VERY, EXTREMELY poor country and realize that a $1 (US) will go a long way over there. In economics there's a thing called the "Big Mac Ratio" (seriously) that is taken into account when comparing living standards and expenses in different countries. Things like average wages, cost of raw products etc. all flow into this. In Pakistan wages are very low, but then again BECAUSE wages are very low, most products in that country are also very cheap. So with 40K (US) you might well live happily ever after in Pakistan. The reason so few people do it is because of the different language, culture, and overall living standard (highways, schools, all that stuff) that is not the same.
All this does not excuse the exploitation of "inferior" countries by the global players of this world. but it should put the production of a few 10K footbags a little into perspective.
a few more thought:
As you will know, the pakistani companies contacting just about any footbag player in the world are actually run by pakistanis! It's not as if there's a big footbag company (a joke in itself) is transfering its labor into a third world countryto make a bigger profit.
carol probably doesn't need the money she makes with her bags to make a living. the sewers in pakistan definately do!
try to raise a company that sells "clean" footbag and is able to supply an even moderately big market...a carolbag costs 30$ in production. sell it to a distributor for 40$. he sells it to a shop for 60$ and the customer will have to pay 100$ for it. who in their right mind would pay that amount of money for a small plastic and suede bag (unless he/she's a deadicated footbager already?).
even institutions like "terre des hommes" who work to abolish child labot throughout the world say that it is no solution to the problem to boycot products that might involve child labor. after all, a kid sewing footbags might support a whole family with its work (again, I'm not saying this is RIGHT, I'm just trying to put stuff into perspective.)
is it necessary for companies like shaggyhack to produce "professional" footbags? probably eveyone of you on this forum started out playing with a crochet, or 3rd world footbag. you liked it, you got into it, you got on the forums, you got a pro bag at the time you needed one. a pro bag early in the process would not have gotten you more or less into footbag. a decent bag will help you along the right direction just as well as a pro bag (and I speak from a couple of 100 experiences).
as usual i've started rambling....
out!
Jeremy, you got your morals right, and I'm serious about this. BUT...just about any product you are probably consuming is teignted with exploitation in one form or another. in fact if you go right down to it, the wealth of the western nations is probably mostly built on exploiting "3rd world" countries. take the war on iraq for instance...but no, we don't want to go into that again.
anywaya fault in your logic is saying that a $1 (US) is the same anywhere in the world. Simply go buy a burger at McDonalds in the States (a rich country) and in Switzerland (a VERY rich country) and you'll find that you pay about twice as much in Switzerland (converted in $!), if not more. Now consider that Pakistan is a VERY, VERY, VERY, EXTREMELY poor country and realize that a $1 (US) will go a long way over there. In economics there's a thing called the "Big Mac Ratio" (seriously) that is taken into account when comparing living standards and expenses in different countries. Things like average wages, cost of raw products etc. all flow into this. In Pakistan wages are very low, but then again BECAUSE wages are very low, most products in that country are also very cheap. So with 40K (US) you might well live happily ever after in Pakistan. The reason so few people do it is because of the different language, culture, and overall living standard (highways, schools, all that stuff) that is not the same.
All this does not excuse the exploitation of "inferior" countries by the global players of this world. but it should put the production of a few 10K footbags a little into perspective.
a few more thought:
As you will know, the pakistani companies contacting just about any footbag player in the world are actually run by pakistanis! It's not as if there's a big footbag company (a joke in itself) is transfering its labor into a third world countryto make a bigger profit.
carol probably doesn't need the money she makes with her bags to make a living. the sewers in pakistan definately do!
try to raise a company that sells "clean" footbag and is able to supply an even moderately big market...a carolbag costs 30$ in production. sell it to a distributor for 40$. he sells it to a shop for 60$ and the customer will have to pay 100$ for it. who in their right mind would pay that amount of money for a small plastic and suede bag (unless he/she's a deadicated footbager already?).
even institutions like "terre des hommes" who work to abolish child labot throughout the world say that it is no solution to the problem to boycot products that might involve child labor. after all, a kid sewing footbags might support a whole family with its work (again, I'm not saying this is RIGHT, I'm just trying to put stuff into perspective.)
is it necessary for companies like shaggyhack to produce "professional" footbags? probably eveyone of you on this forum started out playing with a crochet, or 3rd world footbag. you liked it, you got into it, you got on the forums, you got a pro bag at the time you needed one. a pro bag early in the process would not have gotten you more or less into footbag. a decent bag will help you along the right direction just as well as a pro bag (and I speak from a couple of 100 experiences).
as usual i've started rambling....
out!
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crazydwarf
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1257
- Joined: 10 Jun 2004 18:27
- Location: Bay Area, CA
When I went to switzerland I had to pay for ketchup packets at a mcdonaldsSwitzerland (a VERY rich country) and you'll find that you pay about twice as much in Switzerland
. I think some of this might be because you have to bring in food over the alps which is probably pretty hard to do...Dustin Rhodes
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Outsider
- Ayatollah of Rock n' Rollah
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: 21 May 2003 21:30
- Location: Bridgewater, New Jersey
I'm not sure what to say about all this. I don't want to get too long winded, but theres alot to say.
For one thing, the guys I met at X-Games 2002, then Kickbag, now Shaggy, are just ordinary guys in sneakers and t-shirts. They are not corporate mobsters in suits counting up their mega-profits gleened from unholy exploitations.
For another, regarding judging the quality of their products, this is a relative thing. The guys I met were not overly concerned with what we do. To them, footbag is not all about what we know as freestyle. They just like to kick the bag around a circle. I don't blame them for not wanting more from their game. I don't expect everybody who kicks a footbag around to dedicate years of their life to improving their footbag-kicking skills. I, for instance, like to ride my bicycle. I even wear a helmet. I do not want to enter any races. I do not want to spend many hours each week training for competition. Riding a little is enough for me, just for some fun. Kicking a footbag around a little is what they like to do, just for some fun. If you think about it for a minute, its perfectly reasonable that they should be in business selling bags that were never really intended for us. There are a few thousand of us (serious freestylers and net players). By some estimates there are several million people that enjoy casually kicking around a beanbag. I think the Shaggy guys relate more to them. Plus, for people in business, those millions of people represent a viable market. We, the few thousand hard-core, probably don't.
Personally, I have nothing against trying to profit from footbag. In fact, I think it would be good for our sport, at least in some respects. Were people to profit from footbag, they would be more inclined to promote footbag in order to profit more. Think of it this way: if I held a footbag competition and made money doing it, I would be more inclined to do it again, and soon, and with the profits I would be better able to host another event. Another example: Auto-racing as a sport was conceived by the auto industry to promote sales. They put lots of money into auto racing. The sport exists in part because some people love to race cars. It also owes its existence in part to the people who intend to profit by it. Its because of them that some people are able to make their living racing cars. The same goes for bicycles and bicycle racing. And if any of you have ever day-dreamed about playing footbag professionally, about not having to have a real job but rather getting paid to play, well, somebody is going to have to make lots of money selling footbags for that to ever happen.
There were several of us (the hard-core Us) at the X-Games in Philly that year. It was brutally hot. The air quality was punishingly awful. As I recall, we were there on our own, just to shred and promote the game at the X-Games. I was not there in conjunction with Kickbag. I was not paid by Kickbag. I talked with them. I kicked with them. I tried their bags out. I made recommendations to them, trying to explain what serious freestyle footbag players desire in a bag. Eli was there. He was playing, promoting, selling his videos. The Kickbag guys let him put his TV/VCR on the table in their booth to display the videos. Eli shredded hard that day with me and Bob and Kenny and Dave and some others. He didn't hang out at the booth trying to sell videos. He asked the Kickbag guys to do that for him. I don't think he sold any videos at all. (Probably most shred-video customers are people that already play freestyle). The Kickbag guys gave us bottled water and cans of soda from their cooler (most other drinks at the X-Games were outrageously expensive, though the lemonade was almost worth it, and in that heat I could not say no to either the over-priced lemonade or the free water and soda). They took some photos. They may or may not have asked me for my permission to use my picture. If they did ask, I probably would have said yes. As far as I can tell, their web-site does not explicitly say that I recommend their product, and even if it did, it would not necessarily be a falsehood as I believe that most people who visit their site and buy their bags don't care about serious freestyle footbag, don't know who I am or care, etc, don't need a Carol or Richie or Lonn bag to kick around in their back yards, and yet I am still in favor of them playing footbag, even though they won't play footbag the way we play footbag. In fact, I would prefer that casual players do not get their hands on the kind of bags that we prefer. Those bags are sometimes hard for us to get our hands on (sewers I know always run out of bags well before the end of a tournament), and promoting these to casual kickers is a waste of Carol or Richie or Lonn's skills, and would make it even harder for us to get them.
I agree that the best bags are made by footbaggers.
Freedom Footbags are probably the perfect happy medium for bags that qualify as real freestyle bags and yet are cheap and tough enough and easy enough to produce to not be considered a shameful waste when used by players who do not appreciate the more advanced aspects of this game. Daryl and Sunny probably can not be expected to produce enough Freedom Footbags for everybody in the country to use though.
I beg to differ with Jeremy about the quality of Pakistani footbags. Though I have seen many bad bags from there, I have also seen some good ones. Not good like a good Abshire, but good even for freestyling with. A friend of mine hosted a competition. He acquired some low-cost Pakistani bags so that he could give them away as novice prizes (he also got some beautifully made bags from a local player in his area). When he told me that he had purchased several Pakistani bags to give as prizes for some competitors I was extremely skeptical, but I saw them and felt them and judged them to be acceptable to freestyle with, and probably a real improvement over the hard-as-an-apple crocheted bags that those kids had probably been used to kicking.
I respect Jeremy's position. Profit and convenience cannot justify mistreatment of other human beings, or any animal. Thats a tough path to walk, though. I am glad that Jeremy is acting as the conscience of this forum, this sport, reminding us to pull our heads out of the sand, look around, and ask some question. Questions like "are my actions contributing to the misery of other people." Its something we should all consider in our sport and other aspects of our lives.
Jeremy, in regard to the e-mail you got from the Shaggy guys, well, I would like to see it, or at least the part concerning my payment. Perhaps they consider a few bottles of water and a Dr. Pepper as payment. Really, I'm not sure what it was that they should have paid me for at all, but I am curious to see what they had to say about the matter.
Hey, at least they're not Footbag.com.
For one thing, the guys I met at X-Games 2002, then Kickbag, now Shaggy, are just ordinary guys in sneakers and t-shirts. They are not corporate mobsters in suits counting up their mega-profits gleened from unholy exploitations.
For another, regarding judging the quality of their products, this is a relative thing. The guys I met were not overly concerned with what we do. To them, footbag is not all about what we know as freestyle. They just like to kick the bag around a circle. I don't blame them for not wanting more from their game. I don't expect everybody who kicks a footbag around to dedicate years of their life to improving their footbag-kicking skills. I, for instance, like to ride my bicycle. I even wear a helmet. I do not want to enter any races. I do not want to spend many hours each week training for competition. Riding a little is enough for me, just for some fun. Kicking a footbag around a little is what they like to do, just for some fun. If you think about it for a minute, its perfectly reasonable that they should be in business selling bags that were never really intended for us. There are a few thousand of us (serious freestylers and net players). By some estimates there are several million people that enjoy casually kicking around a beanbag. I think the Shaggy guys relate more to them. Plus, for people in business, those millions of people represent a viable market. We, the few thousand hard-core, probably don't.
Personally, I have nothing against trying to profit from footbag. In fact, I think it would be good for our sport, at least in some respects. Were people to profit from footbag, they would be more inclined to promote footbag in order to profit more. Think of it this way: if I held a footbag competition and made money doing it, I would be more inclined to do it again, and soon, and with the profits I would be better able to host another event. Another example: Auto-racing as a sport was conceived by the auto industry to promote sales. They put lots of money into auto racing. The sport exists in part because some people love to race cars. It also owes its existence in part to the people who intend to profit by it. Its because of them that some people are able to make their living racing cars. The same goes for bicycles and bicycle racing. And if any of you have ever day-dreamed about playing footbag professionally, about not having to have a real job but rather getting paid to play, well, somebody is going to have to make lots of money selling footbags for that to ever happen.
There were several of us (the hard-core Us) at the X-Games in Philly that year. It was brutally hot. The air quality was punishingly awful. As I recall, we were there on our own, just to shred and promote the game at the X-Games. I was not there in conjunction with Kickbag. I was not paid by Kickbag. I talked with them. I kicked with them. I tried their bags out. I made recommendations to them, trying to explain what serious freestyle footbag players desire in a bag. Eli was there. He was playing, promoting, selling his videos. The Kickbag guys let him put his TV/VCR on the table in their booth to display the videos. Eli shredded hard that day with me and Bob and Kenny and Dave and some others. He didn't hang out at the booth trying to sell videos. He asked the Kickbag guys to do that for him. I don't think he sold any videos at all. (Probably most shred-video customers are people that already play freestyle). The Kickbag guys gave us bottled water and cans of soda from their cooler (most other drinks at the X-Games were outrageously expensive, though the lemonade was almost worth it, and in that heat I could not say no to either the over-priced lemonade or the free water and soda). They took some photos. They may or may not have asked me for my permission to use my picture. If they did ask, I probably would have said yes. As far as I can tell, their web-site does not explicitly say that I recommend their product, and even if it did, it would not necessarily be a falsehood as I believe that most people who visit their site and buy their bags don't care about serious freestyle footbag, don't know who I am or care, etc, don't need a Carol or Richie or Lonn bag to kick around in their back yards, and yet I am still in favor of them playing footbag, even though they won't play footbag the way we play footbag. In fact, I would prefer that casual players do not get their hands on the kind of bags that we prefer. Those bags are sometimes hard for us to get our hands on (sewers I know always run out of bags well before the end of a tournament), and promoting these to casual kickers is a waste of Carol or Richie or Lonn's skills, and would make it even harder for us to get them.
I agree that the best bags are made by footbaggers.
Freedom Footbags are probably the perfect happy medium for bags that qualify as real freestyle bags and yet are cheap and tough enough and easy enough to produce to not be considered a shameful waste when used by players who do not appreciate the more advanced aspects of this game. Daryl and Sunny probably can not be expected to produce enough Freedom Footbags for everybody in the country to use though.
I beg to differ with Jeremy about the quality of Pakistani footbags. Though I have seen many bad bags from there, I have also seen some good ones. Not good like a good Abshire, but good even for freestyling with. A friend of mine hosted a competition. He acquired some low-cost Pakistani bags so that he could give them away as novice prizes (he also got some beautifully made bags from a local player in his area). When he told me that he had purchased several Pakistani bags to give as prizes for some competitors I was extremely skeptical, but I saw them and felt them and judged them to be acceptable to freestyle with, and probably a real improvement over the hard-as-an-apple crocheted bags that those kids had probably been used to kicking.
I respect Jeremy's position. Profit and convenience cannot justify mistreatment of other human beings, or any animal. Thats a tough path to walk, though. I am glad that Jeremy is acting as the conscience of this forum, this sport, reminding us to pull our heads out of the sand, look around, and ask some question. Questions like "are my actions contributing to the misery of other people." Its something we should all consider in our sport and other aspects of our lives.
Jeremy, in regard to the e-mail you got from the Shaggy guys, well, I would like to see it, or at least the part concerning my payment. Perhaps they consider a few bottles of water and a Dr. Pepper as payment. Really, I'm not sure what it was that they should have paid me for at all, but I am curious to see what they had to say about the matter.
Hey, at least they're not Footbag.com.
"The time has come to convert the unbelievers..."
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
Jonathan Schneider --- sometimes showers with his Lavers on (to clean them)
The Ministry of Silly Walks
NYFA
BAP
I doubt that. Most the my food is either growen in my parents garden or locally. Most of the clothes I wear are Australian made and I tend to look at where a product is made before I buy it or not. There are somethings that are probably made through the exploitation of third world countries. Most of these products I either bought second hand or got for free (like my lavers).atze wrote:Don't want to get involved too much in this discussion...
Jeremy, you got your morals right, and I'm serious about this. BUT...just about any product you are probably consuming is teignted with exploitation in one form or another. in fact if you go right down to it, the wealth of the western nations is probably mostly built on exploiting "3rd world" countries. take the war on iraq for instance...but no, we don't want to go into that again.
[quote
anywaya fault in your logic is saying that a $1 (US) is the same anywhere in the world. Simply go buy a burger at McDonalds in the States (a rich country) and in Switzerland (a VERY rich country) and you'll find that you pay about twice as much in Switzerland (converted in $!), if not more. Now consider that Pakistan is a VERY, VERY, VERY, EXTREMELY poor country and realize that a $1 (US) will go a long way over there. In economics there's a thing called the "Big Mac Ratio" (seriously) that is taken into account when comparing living standards and expenses in different countries. Things like average wages, cost of raw products etc. all flow into this. In Pakistan wages are very low, but then again BECAUSE wages are very low, most products in that country are also very cheap. So with 40K (US) you might well live happily ever after in Pakistan. The reason so few people do it is because of the different language, culture, and overall living standard (highways, schools, all that stuff) that is not the same.
[/quote]
I wouldn't say it was a fault in my logic - but rather me missing out information because it didn't help my arguement very much
- Obviously a good buisness will have prices aimed at the target market - so in Pakistan they make more money by charging less for their products than an American buisness would make charging those same amounts. However this is really only the case with products that are heavily inflated for profit. Something that not much profit is usally made on - say clean water - is not much cheaper from country to country because it is always in societies best interests for clean water to be as cheap as possible. That's why the majority of people in Pakistan do not have easy access to clean water - because do so would mean that the country would have to continually go into debt the money spent on providing clean water wouldn't bring in income to repay the debt. - The only way countries such as Pakistan will ever get clean water is if an outside source pays for it.True - footbags are not a big issue overall. But I believe in the saying "think globally act locally" - which is saying that every little bit you do helps to change the world.All this does not excuse the exploitation of "inferior" countries by the global players of this world. but it should put the production of a few 10K footbags a little into perspective.
Yes - in Pakistan there are rich people and poor people too. In Pakistan the richest 10% own 27% of the nations wealth. Supporting rich Pakistanies does not mean you are supporting all Pakistanies - infact it means you are creating more of a gap between rich and poor. The people running the footbag production companies are in the 0.7% of the population that have access to the internet - that sounds like they are not the poor people who don't have clean water and are probably working for less than $1 per day.As you will know, the pakistani companies contacting just about any footbag player in the world are actually run by pakistanis! It's not as if there's a big footbag company (a joke in itself) is transfering its labor into a third world countryto make a bigger profit.
Of course it's not necessary - but for people on this forum who are looking to buy a footbag - they can get a lot better value for their money buying something else.is it necessary for companies like shaggyhack to produce "professional" footbags? probably eveyone of you on this forum started out playing with a crochet, or 3rd world footbag. you liked it, you got into it, you got on the forums, you got a pro bag at the time you needed one. a pro bag early in the process would not have gotten you more or less into footbag. a decent bag will help you along the right direction just as well as a pro bag (and I speak from a couple of 100 experiences).
Jon - I quoted my email on the first page of this topic! - They mentioned spending $2000 but I guess that was on venue hire etc.
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jbalexdarkelf
- Multidex Master
- Posts: 247
- Joined: 01 Feb 2005 16:05
- Location: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA
- Contact:
this sucks, i just ordered a 32 panel from shaggy hack. a 32 panal for 10 dollars looked good to me.
John Alexander, 17
Calling all footbaggers from Kentucky if you see this sig and are from KY, PM ME!!!!
"Beggers cant be choosers"
"Yes and givers cant be asses"
www.myspace.com/coheed_dude
Calling all footbaggers from Kentucky if you see this sig and are from KY, PM ME!!!!
"Beggers cant be choosers"
"Yes and givers cant be asses"
www.myspace.com/coheed_dude
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jbalexdarkelf
- Multidex Master
- Posts: 247
- Joined: 01 Feb 2005 16:05
- Location: Glasgow, Kentucky, USA
- Contact:
ok that sounds good. when i get it i will tell about it.
John Alexander, 17
Calling all footbaggers from Kentucky if you see this sig and are from KY, PM ME!!!!
"Beggers cant be choosers"
"Yes and givers cant be asses"
www.myspace.com/coheed_dude
Calling all footbaggers from Kentucky if you see this sig and are from KY, PM ME!!!!
"Beggers cant be choosers"
"Yes and givers cant be asses"
www.myspace.com/coheed_dude
Seeing as people are getting so flame-ish about country of origin and the type of labor used, I would like to point something out.
All footbags that are sold on www.DragonDroppings.net are 100% hand made by one 18 yr old white dude. (me)
If you need proof, I can furnish pictures for you
Now I shall duck back into my hole and steer clear of all the flying bags...
All footbags that are sold on www.DragonDroppings.net are 100% hand made by one 18 yr old white dude. (me)
If you need proof, I can furnish pictures for you
Now I shall duck back into my hole and steer clear of all the flying bags...
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slapdash21
- Futureless
- Posts: 4681
- Joined: 29 Sep 2004 14:50
- Location: Beantown, kidd
i bought a 32 off of shaggyhack...its actually sitting on top of my head as i type. honestly, yeah, its not the best. the 'killasuede' never really softened to a point that it stalled well. its kind of like having a plastic ball with the pellets just kinda bouncing around inside of it. ok, thats an exaggeration. its usable, but certainly isnt my main bag.
Pete Bowler
B$C
keeps it offah da ground.
617 FOR LIFE
B$C
keeps it offah da ground.
617 FOR LIFE
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hallucinogenious
- Hack Fiend
- Posts: 57
- Joined: 04 Jan 2005 22:28
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Blue_turnip
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1239
- Joined: 29 Nov 2004 03:55
- Location: Melbourne
Although I fully understand Jeremy's arguments and to a certain degree I support him, I will have to put forth my own oppinion:
It was very biased to start interogating shaggyhack about their bags
when you yourself are sponsored by acefootbags, which, as we know, are made in pakistan and definitely are not certified by any thingymabob.
On top of that you also should have nothing against shaggyhack bags when IMO they look a hell of a lot better than ace bags. I think you should ask scott to take your photo off Ace footbags if you want to have any negative stance towards shaggyhacks
But I still support your arguments, so dont take offence
It was very biased to start interogating shaggyhack about their bags
when you yourself are sponsored by acefootbags, which, as we know, are made in pakistan and definitely are not certified by any thingymabob.
On top of that you also should have nothing against shaggyhack bags when IMO they look a hell of a lot better than ace bags. I think you should ask scott to take your photo off Ace footbags if you want to have any negative stance towards shaggyhacks
But I still support your arguments, so dont take offence
Oliver Adams
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Blue_turnip
- Egyptian Footgod
- Posts: 1239
- Joined: 29 Nov 2004 03:55
- Location: Melbourne
As much as I dont like dissing fellow footbaggers I just have to quote this turdbrain. Stoke obviously dropped out of school as he claims that if they made good footbags they would be able to increase the price by 1000% because they would be in high demand. This is a load of shit. To get through to ppl like stroke ill put it really simply for you in this hypothetical situation (all prices are incorrect and are just used for the sake of simplicity):Wait. You use your feet? That's against my morals. Don't you know about all the starving children in Africa? This raises another serious political discussion![/sarcasm]Word. Now, if the bags were any good, they'd be able to raise the price by 1000% because they'd be in high demand.habitat wrote:If the bag sucks, end of discussion in my book, move onTWEAK wrote:
The 32 panel that they sell on that site was my first footbag, and trust me it was shit.
Pakistani kid gets $1 for 1 bag made.
company name sells these bags for $10 each
The pakistani kid is making the footbags to company name's blueprints. So its not the kids fault that the bags lick balls.
Now taking the fact that its the companies designs out of the equation:
It doesnt matter if you had the next richard abshire pumping out the bags. Even though the bags would rock The price would only be increased 1000% at the end of the line where company name sells them. This would not alleviate the problem at all:
pakistani kid- $1 per bag
company name - $100 per bag
The only difference here would be the fact that the ratio of revenue to costs would be 100:1, in favour of the asshole company, instead of 10:1.
On another note that sarcasm at the start of stokes post was unnecessary and i think he deserves to rot in frickin hell.
Oliver Adams