Spinning Op Clipper

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 22 Oct 2004 06:48

This may seem like a stupid question - but what is spinning op clipper?

Is it a spinning clipper or a gyro clipper?

I ask because I would have called it a spinning clipper but Anssi just pointed out to me that spinning clipper starts and ends on the same clipper/side and gyro clipper ends on the opposite clipper/side.

So logically it seems that gyro clipper is a spinning op clipper. However I commented that I think "op clipper" would be based on the last component - so out of a spin the "op side" would be the side the set came from.

confused!

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 22 Oct 2004 07:06

Jeremy wrote:This may seem like a stupid question - but what is spinning op clipper?

This may seem like a smart ass response - but a spinning op clipper is called osis.

jon · Post by **jon** » 22 Oct 2004 07:21

confusing yes but easy to accept
spinning clipper starts and ends on the same clip
gyro (spinning op clip) starts and ends on a different clip

yar people always say gyro clip is an osis but I do not agree, gyro clip is a spin then a clip, an osis is the same jobs but when actually doing an osis you catch it way sooner like mid spin so its different

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 22 Oct 2004 07:38

Spinning Op Clipper ( Clip > (back) Spin > Op Clip ) is a Peeking Clipper. Brad Kaplan write this some time ago.

It can't be Gyro Clipper, because Gyro REQUIRES dexterity.

An Peeking Clipper makes sense because Peeking Osis is Clip > (back) Spin > (back) Spin > Same Clip. And when you cut out Osis and put Clipper instead you have this Spinning Op Clipper move.

Hehe

Is my explanation clear enought?

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 22 Oct 2004 07:58

In fact Jeremy did offer crispy Osis name for Gyro Clip. But it's not Osis.
Isn't Peeking component like this: Clip > (back) spin > (back) spin? Peeking Clipper would end on setting foot.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 22 Oct 2004 11:16

Muffinman · Post by **Muffinman** » 22 Oct 2004 11:17

When the term gyro was invented it referred to a plantless halfspinning dexterity-oriented move. I would say the term has changed like many other footbag terms have over time. I hear people talking about hitting gyro osis, gyro ducking clipper, etc. I use the term in this manner as well -- it makes more sense. It's simple and everybody knows what you're talking about even if they argue that you're wrong.

Peeking to me has become very confusing since that (I think it was Nate Linscott's?) post about peeking and sonic and all that jazz. It used to make sense to me but now it is as confusing and controversial as xdex, it seems.

It's spinning clipper and gyro clipper regardless of plant (in my opinion). Spinning opposite clipper is definately NOT osis. If anything osis is an opposite clippering halfspin...or something.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 22 Oct 2004 13:26

osis IS a half spinning . . . you only think you catch it and twist . . . and if you do catch it and twist,congratulations on the ugly inside stall to a wrap, it is crap . . . just like any other THE trick.

Just because you set the back too high for a normal looking osis and have time to kill does not change the trick.

I got my info straight from Eric W, a few years back. It may feel like a a catch and a spin, but the leg should not be shoveling the bag around . . .

Call it a zero add stylistic variation, but it's still an osis.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 22 Oct 2004 19:32

I have been here before. Some of you may have read.

I say: Spinning Op Clipper is equal to Gyro Clipper. I say gyro clipper and spinning clipper are the same. I see gyro clipper as a spinning clipper from a different set, just as butterfly is still the same move when it is set from either toe, either clipper, a kick, or an outside stall, etc. In the same way, spinning clipper is mostly set from the same clipper as it is caught on, but it is still Spinning Clipper if it is set from a toe stall, an outside kick, OR THE OTHER CLIPPER. I like the term Gyro Clipper because it is a convenient way of saying Spinning Op Clipper, just like I like the term Infinity because it is a convenient way of saying "butterfly set from one clipper to the other clipper".

I would NOT say that spinning op clipper (gyro clipper) is the same as Osis, just as Spinning Clipper is not the same as osis.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 22 Oct 2004 20:04

what if it were spinning op whirl?

Would we be talking about gyro whirl?

I always think of op and same as being relative to the last component - not the start of the move.

Thus nuclear op butterfly is pdx legbeater in my opinion - because after the nuclear dex the op side is the side the move started on.

After a spin the bag starts on the same side = thus "gyro clipper" is a spinning same side clipper - same side being relative to where the bag is directly after the last compent (the spin). I always talk about same and op sides - not feet and I think it's important to have consistancy between moves.

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 22 Oct 2004 20:09

i dunno about the rest of yous, but i'm confuckeled...

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 22 Oct 2004 20:10

i would argue that spinning op clip is different from osis in the same way eggplant is not an eggbeater; even though one is just the crispy version of the other.

gyro clipper doesn't use the same "half-blind" catch that osis requires, making gyro clipper, to me, 100x easier. osis is more of a finesse move.

i do agree that the "pulled" osii, are crap.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 23 Oct 2004 10:34

Jeremy,

We've stumbled upon an interesting situation here. I think we've found a flaw in Jobs notation, actually.

First off, though, I compared Osis, Gyro Clipper, and Spinning Clipper not to try to figure out which move "Spinning Op Clipper" was. Really, I was just responding to Tsiangkun's assertion that gyro clipper and osis were the same thing. I don't think they are. They don't look anything alike. And besides, I've already had to wrestle with this one and was quite pleased to conclude that osis is distinct from gyro clipper because gyro clipper is the same as spinning clipper. Osis is not the same as spinning clipper, thus osis is not the same as gyro clipper. Yeah, I was trying to subvert the topic to further my own position. So sue me.

Anyway, Jeremy isn't letting us off so easily, responding to my own post by bringing us back to the topic at hand. He said:

I always think of op and same as being relative to the last component - not the start of the move. Thus nuclear op butterfly is pdx legbeater in my opinion - because after the nuclear dex the op side is the side the move started on.

Okay, this is pretty clear. I agree. However, I think the problem exposed by this conversation is that term like OP and SAME are easy to distinguish when it comes to legs and feet. In Jeremy's example of the paradox legbeater, every component involved is one foot or the other, one leg or the other. Specifically, the set comes from one foot, the next thing to happen is that the SAME leg the bag started on circles the bag, then the OPPOSITE leg circles the bag, and finally the foot OPPOSITE of that second leg catches the bag. There are two legs, and its easy to say that a given component uses the same or opposite leg/foot as the component of the trick that comes before it (sorry for the remedial stuff that I'm sure everybody is clear on. I can't help myself.)
The problem I see is that we've only got one torso/back, and its simply not as clear how we determine if a leg/foot is the opposite or same from the previous component of a trick if that component is your back/neck/whole body. And of course, talking about which SIDE the trick was done on kind of undoes all the progress we've made with OP and SAME because we'd adopted those term instead of RIGHT and LEFT (the sides) because a given leg could perform components on either side of the body.
I'm sorry, but I've got no solution to offer yet. I'm just pointing out this realization I've just had, which is that Jobs notation is great to describe tricks if those tricks are done with legs/feet, but OP and SAME just don't cover something that there is only one of quite as well, and I don't think we should start talking about SIDES in Jobs. I thought we were using Jobs so we don't have to use terms like RIGHT and LEFT. I mean, I only just realized with this topic that its difficult to use OP and SAME to describe any moves like ducking clipper, diving clipper, spinning clipper, etc. When you spin around and don't circle your leg over the bag, is that spin considered to be SAME or OP of the set foot? Ditto for ducks and dives. I mean, I think that simply asking "What is spinning Op clipper?" really just points out that Jobs notation kind of fails to address some stuff, and since we're all more DEX focused than anything else, we hadn't noticed till now. How can we say that a spin is Opposite or the Same from the Foot that set the bag? Its like comparing apples and oranges. Shit. I always hated that term, "comparing apples and oranges". It reminds me of the Algebra I could never get the hang of. Shit.

As for gyro clipper and osis, I'd be happy to keep discussing this, but it seems to really be another topic.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 23 Oct 2004 10:51

THANK YOU jeremy for bringing this up. I've been dieing to tackle this one for a long time but after my peeking thread confusion, that MR Chan referenced, I was holding back.
I wrote this b4 read the above post

OK so Outsiderand I have the opposite views, heres mine:

Rule one, Op And same refer to SIDES not FEET
Rule 2, you determine witch side after the spin is completed.
That means that when you set with your right SIDE(left foot) clipper and spin counter clockwise and spot the bag over left shoulder that is your referecing side. Keep it on that side and you have a spinning ss, go to the other side and you have a spinning op. This works for inspinning as well.

so a spinning op clipper is a regular spinning clipper
spinning ss clipper is a gyro clipper(sorry traditionalistis)
inspinning op osis is a reg inspinning osis
inspinning ss osis is set and caught with the set foot( see my first slow-moed move in the new eugene vid)
a spinning op whirl is a spinning pdx whirl
a spinnig ss whirl (with no plant) is a gyro whirl

This makes the most sense to me but unfortunatly others don't see it this way.

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 23 Oct 2004 11:09

haha I just read Jeremy's last post and he and I see things the same way, yet so many people see it the EXACT opposite.
Kind of like Ricky M and I see/saw peeking and sonic the EXACT oppostie as many people.
It seems like there is a lot of confusion when it comes to spinning.
Luckily not many people throw non-traditional spin moves(spinning butter mobius ect.).

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 23 Oct 2004 12:48

I think that we should assume:
1) After a COMPLETE spin the bag is on the side that was used befor this spin. So Gyro Mirage is a Spinning Op Side Mirage, Inspinning Paradox Drifter is a Inspinning Op Side Drifter, Far Osis is something like Inspinning ss Clipper (yeah, it isn't Inspinning ss Clipper, because it is some back spinning move), and regular inspinning clipper is Inspinning op Clipper.
2) In Job's we refer to legs, not sides, and if before some component was a 'body action', like ducking, diving, spinning, we refer to leg which was used befor this body component

I think that when we assume this thing it will be easier to clarrify all confusions.

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 23 Oct 2004 13:02

hmmm....

i would argue that gyro mirage should be considered same side.
since gyro illusion is like a spin then a bubba, and bubba is a same side dex, then gyro illusion would be spinning same side illusion. op would be spinning pdx illusion. why would mirage be any different?

now take spinning pdx drifter, or void/lotus. thats basically a gyro clipper with an extra dex. and since with a dex its pdx, it should be spinning op drifter. so then gyro clipper should be spinning op clipper.

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 23 Oct 2004 13:32

ShredPirate wrote:hmmm....

i would argue that gyro mirage should be considered same side.
since gyro illusion is like a spin then a bubba, and bubba is a same side dex, then gyro illusion would be spinning same side illusion. op would be spinning pdx illusion. why would mirage be any different?

now take spinning pdx drifter, or void/lotus. thats basically a gyro clipper with an extra dex. and since with a dex its pdx, it should be spinning op drifter. so then gyro clipper should be spinning op clipper.

Hmm... I didn't think about this that way. It makes sense.
So... With this way... we should assume that after a back spin isn't a complete spin and after that spin the bag is on the oposite side to the side on which was set done. And what with inspinning?

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 23 Oct 2004 13:37

inspinnnig would be the same. The reference side is the side the bag is on AFTER the spin is completed. so spin would switch sides, and inspin would keep it the same.

Wim · Post by **Wim** » 23 Oct 2004 14:26

[quote="Tsiangkun"]. . . you only think you catch it and twist . . . and if you do catch it and twist,congratulations on the ugly inside stall to a wrap, it is crap . . . quote]

I definitely catch & twist and it looks grrrrrrreat.

It's hard to catch the innumerable variations on the osis in one notation, but the way I do it it's closest to a frigidosis into a spin.

modified

Spinning Op Clipper

Spinning Op Clipper

Re: Spinning Op Clipper