Never Smoked

[Seath]

Well i can assure you None of the pot being sold around here was grown in Afganistan. There's grow houses everywhere you look around here, its the burbs man! The cops bust one every month on average, and its always 100+ plants. Anyways,

All the people I've talked about weed have said that it doesn't really affect them apart from making them feel relaxed. So how can you have other kinds of fun with weed if it doesn't even intoxicate you.

Weed does intoxicate you:

(from health Canada:)
Short-term effects of Cannabis
Effects of smoking are felt within a few minutes and last two to four hours. Effects from ingestion (e.g. eaten in baked or cooked foods) appear more gradually and last longer, and the person may feel dull and sluggish for some time afterwards.

The person feels calm, relaxed, talkative and sometimes drowsy.

Concentration and short-term memory are markedly impaired, and sensory perception seems enhanced, colours are brighter, sounds are more distinct, and the sense of time and space is distorted. Appetitie increases, especially for sweets.

Some people withdrawl, or experience fearfulness, anxiety, depression, a few experience panic, terror or paranioa, particualrily with largers doses.

Some experience hallucinations with larger doses and sumptoms worsen in persons with sychiatric disorders, particularily schizophrenia. Physical effects include impaired coordination.

yay!

thats what you get, pretty much, or at least what you could get.

I've been a heavy pot smoker since i was 16, so for about 6 years. I recently quit pot though, today is my 32nd day without it, so far so good [/quote]

[Colin]

Afganistan is one of the biggest drug producers in the world. I think you know where I'm going with this..

That's better as an argument against prohibition than as an argument against use.

[ville]

Afganistan is one of the biggest drug producers in the world. I think you know where I'm going with this..

That's better as an argument against prohibition than as an argument against use.

Would you rather give the money to Afganistan(or any other company/country which sells drugs) legally and not stop them from making and/or exporting drugs. But I don't want to make this an argument about drug laws.

Well i can assure you None of the pot being sold around here was grown in Afganistan. There's grow houses everywhere you look around here, its the burbs man! The cops bust one every month on average, and its always 100+ plants.

Well, if it's grown locally then it's an even bigger problem, the money goes to your local criminals. So it's a bigger threat to you than foreign countries.

And yes I am aware of the affects of drugs on your mind and body, but from what I've heard from long time users, it's not an big experience to them anymore, it's just a thing you do because you've done it for so long. So why bother?

I think that you are free to do what you want, but you are dumb if you do something that harms you and pay for it.

There's such a big difference between our countries that it's hard to see it from your point of view. Allthough I do see similar things happen with alcohol, but atleast in Finland the alcohol market is ran by a goverment own company and most of their profits go to the goverment. And ironically enough to fund the healthcare of the people who drink their health away. But that's an another story.

[Jeremy]

Hmm. I think it's important to remember that just because something is a law - it doesn't make it right. At the moment people who grow and sell weed are criminals - but I think many people believe that that shouldn't be a crime. Certainly weed is less destructive than alcohol and less harmful than tobacco - or at least I've always found it to be.

In regards to the possibility of funding terrorism - well I know that in my case that has never happened. I can't imagine that there is a big trade in importing weed from Afghanistan to Australia or any other country for that matter. They do grow a lot of Opium Poppies in Afghanistan - and cover a large amount of the worlds heroin. Under the Taliban - all drug production stopped in Iraq. Now that the US have handed power over to the former drug lords we are seeing another rise in its production and a lowering of prices as more becomes available.

There are very few interational terrorists from Afghanistan. None of the S11 terrorists were from Afghanistan. Almost all terrorists are from richer nations such as Suadi Arabia, Syria or Egypt. The majority of "terrorists" in Afghanistan and Iraq have come from another country or are fighting against the invaders - and could not afford to leave once the war is over to continue the fight against the US in other countries. Afghanistan is a very very poor nation. It has delt with a large number of wars, warlords, droughts and famines. The fact is that at the moment the only thing they can grow that will make enough money for them to feed their families are drugs. They can't compete against the multi national food producers and there is little else you can grow.

edit:
http://www.plusnews.org/webspecials/opium/Eraalt.asp

[sniikeri]

Yes you can have fun sober, but intoxicants make OTHER kinds of fun availible. Close all the doors you want, I however am dining at lifes fun buffet.

You do that. I still have lots of doors open if I close two or three of them.

Certainly weed is less destructive than alcohol and less harmful than tobacco - or at least I've always found it to be.

I don't believe at all that weed is less destructive than alchohol. Because you can use alchohol so that it can even be good for you health (Can you say the same thing of weed? Maybe, but only in medical purposes).
The big thing in using intoxicants is using them within reason. Sad that so many people have forgotten it.

If you ask from me, I'd raise the taxes of tobacco and add those warning pics into boxes. In Finland where government funds the healthcare and it's free for citizens (of course they pay taxes so it's not completely free), some smokers get new lungs before those who've never even touched a cigarette. The smoker needs to get them quicker to stay alive and the non-smoking suffers.

It's true, that the smoker has also paid his/her taxes etc., but is it right that someone who harms him-/herself gets treatment before the other one?
Like Jeremy says: "Just because something is legal - it doesn't make it right.

Hmm. I think it's important to remember that just because something is a law - it doesn't make it right. At the moment people who grow and sell weed are criminals - but I think many people believe that that shouldn't be a crime.

If weed would be legal, who'd control the selling and growing it? It's true that no one can't really control it at all right now, but alchohol and tobacco is sold in shops, not so much in the streets.
I know that weed has helped some people in reducing pain, but I don't think it should be legal in any other ways than medical.

Would people be happy after the weed would've changed legal? They wouldn't never demand stronger drugs to be legal?
Saying that weed should be legal 'cause alchohol and tobacco are is childish. "Dad, I want that toy gun because Kevin from the school has one too!"

[Jeremy]

But there should be consistency between what substances are legal. The fact is that alcohol has a very long cultural history amongst the imperialist nations that have controlled most western countries. Weed however - was introduced to the imperialist nations much later so is not built into our culture in the same way alcohol is. That's why weed is illegal and alcohol is not - because we've been drinking it for thousands of years and we - the former colonies of imperialist nations - don't understand the cultural meaning of weed - nor do we really care about what the minority cultures think. If the American Indians had have taken over the world instead of the British, French and Dutch - Weed would now be legal and alcohol would probably be illegal.

So if we are to have a culturally tolerant legal system - we need to outlaw drugs on merit - not on tradition. There needs to be a reason why weed is illegal and other drugs such as tobacco and alcohol are not. They are all bad for your health if taken in excess – Tobacco is easily the most harmful of the three – it’s also easily the most addictive – alcohol and weed to not have anywhere near the same degree of physical addiction that tobacco has (although you can easily get a dependence addiction to pretty much any substance) – and weed and alcohol make you feel good. I’m not sure if tobacco does or not – it certainly has never felt me feel good but I’ve never smoked a whole cigarette. Alcohol is a stimulant and can make you violent, as well as having a strong negative effect on your co-ordination and manual skills. Weed is a relaxant and makes you more chilled – less violent and more relaxed. It doesn’t affect your co-ordination to the same degree although it can effect your motivation.

Basically the three drugs have both positive and negative effects – the only one that is really harmful is tobacco – weed and alcohol are only harmful if you do them to excess – just like anything – apple seeds can kill you if you eat more than about 50 in one sitting (they have arsenic in them) – that’s about 20 grams or less of apple seeds!

So if we are to have consistency in our laws it seems to me that these are the options:

Legalise weed, alcohol and tobacco.
Legalise weed and alcohol – criminalise tobacco.
Criminalise all drugs.

Those options are consistent and they don’t discriminate against any cultures – the first option is to allow people to choose what they ingest in their own bodies. The second option is to allow them to do that within reason – but obviously smoking is not good for society and should be outlawed. The third option is the cynical view that people don’t know what’s good for them and the government should decide what’s in people’s best interests. I’d support either of the first two options.

[Spadrick]

Everything is fine in moderation.


Thats the gist.

[mosher]

And yes I am aware of the affects of drugs on your mind and body, but from what I've heard from long time users, it's not an big experience to them anymore, it's just a thing you do because you've done it for so long. So why bother?

I think that you are free to do what you want, but you are dumb if you do something that harms you and pay for it.

I think about this so much of the time.

I smoke many times per day. Each time I get high I think about how stupid it is. I AM paying money just to die! i used to argue that cigarettes were way worse than weed because you didn't even get anything out of it.

Well I am now one of those long-time users that gets nothing out of weed. I feel the effects for a VERY short time and I am very aware of how much money I am stupidly sinking into weed.

But I can't seem to stop.

I want to stop. I am afraid of death.. seriously.

[mc]

i'm not really afraid of the health effects, but I AM afraid of getting another decade or two older and feeling like I entirely wasted my youth... I also beat myself up when I smoke. Remember when it used to just be fun and fresh and new? hehe... Maybe we're growing out of it, I hear that happens to hippies who get a little overzealous with their consumption

[ville]

But there should be consistency between what substances are legal. The fact is that alcohol has a very long cultural history amongst the imperialist nations that have controlled most western countries. Weed however - was introduced to the imperialist nations much later so is not built into our culture in the same way alcohol is. That's why weed is illegal and alcohol is not - because we've been drinking it for thousands of years and we - the former colonies of imperialist nations - don't understand the cultural meaning of weed - nor do we really care about what the minority cultures think.

I agree with you. Alcohol, atleast in western countries, is something we can't get rid of. But I also think that we should still try not to legalise other drugs, and maybe criminalise those we can. But if you have to choose one of the 3 options you gave I'd choose the second one. Tobacco is definately the worst one. Some kind of regulation would be the best choice.

[mosher]

Do you think it is possible to have a North America with almost equal distribution methods for both alcohol and weed one day? As in having specific government operated weed stores that carried crops from various growers just like fine wines.

Hah - but what about homegrow? It's a little different than homebrew eh?


I definately think tobacco is the worst of all the evils. It kills SO many people needlessly just because they are addicted.

Harsh!

At least weed is kinda fun.

Ok, I did some tangible "scientific" testing just for this thread.

I just got high (haha, yes, it is around noon) and I will describe all the effects (on a long time smoker) compared to how I felt right before:

- my head and body have a nice pleasant overall feeling, sort of.. pulled to the sounds I am listening to
- sorta.. pulsing.. I don't know.. if people can understand what I mean. I have what is called a "body buzz" right now because of the filtered weed THC crystals I smoked.
- general feeling of being "high" hahaha. Is it possible to find a more vague description?



Oh well, life is about choices and doing the ones that make you feel happiest. I guess the moral of the story is do generally what you want so long as what you want doesn't harm others. I smoke weed now and then, you can too if you want and that's precisely the point - smoke weed if you want to and for no other reason.


I think, if nothing else, the history of how weed got shut out by the US government during the whole Reefer Madness propaganda is quite a good read.

[ShredPirate]

when people say "drugs are bad, and can ruin your life", they are most likely talking about cocaine, heroine, speed, meth, etc. i don't smoke pot, but from what i've seen, the only long term effect pot can have is make you procrastinate more

[Frenzal]

Jeremy, you're so good at staying calm with alcohol people; when i hear someone say "drugs should be illeagle but i'll experiment with alcohol" i feel like posting page after page of ethyl-alcohol vs THC comparisons.

But i'm trying to be calm so here's just one: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1130.html

" Alcohol, atleast in western countries, is something we can't get rid of. But I also think that we should still try not to legalise other drugs, and maybe criminalise those we can." - That, in a nutshell, is the government of Aotearoa's current policy and it harms me personally because marijuana is a far safer recreational drug than alcohol(World Health Organisation). For me it's exacerbated because my liver's not good, so i smoke marijuana to relax instead of having a few beers. Why should i be persecuted for that?

"But if you have to choose one of the 3 options you gave I'd choose the second one." - That's good to hear. I think those three choices are the only ones unless your conscience abides discrimination.

[sniikeri]

There's one option that hasn't been mentioned.
Criminalize 2 of these 3 intoxicants and remain (or turn) one legal.
But that isn't probably a realistic choice.

I'm not on alchohol's side in this conversation nor in real life! Actually I think that messing up your head is not worth the consequences.
Like Tom said, do it only if you want to. And Tom, I believe you can quit it if you really, really want to. Just ask someone hide your wallet or something...

I think I'll drink only water and milk starting now. And maybe juice, but only if it's a party.

Do you ever drink alchohol just to get drunk?

[Seath]

I do!

[Jeremy]

A lot less than I used to! And now when I do - I usually limit myself - moderation is much more fun than waking up with vomit in your hair.

[FlexThis]

[sniikeri]

Since people (including me) turned this discussion to include other intoxicants as well as weed, I decided to tell you all about the troubles of alchohol.

I'm 14 years old and I don't drink alchohol at all. But friends do and it effects me, too.
All my friends are older than me (15yrs) and they drink alchohol every Friday or Saturday to get drunk. Ain't a big deal in the USA nor in Finland.
They are smart people normally (some of them aren't so much anymore), but this year even one of these "nice, athletic boys" who's my friend too has started to drink. Also all the girls drink, as much as boys. I don't like to see nice girls throwing up in some ditch.
It's very hard to get company at the weekends, cause my friends/girls are
A) Drunk
B) Passed out
C) In a terrible hangover.

My parents don't like that I'd go to the center at weekends (they think that I'd go drinking) because they find no reason why I should and what I'd do there. Plus I'm not so interested to go there to sheep my drunken friends.
There're no action for sober ones who'd like to just have a good time.

Now you guys say "Got ya!" cause I was and am one of those who judged intoxicants and said that I can have a good time sober, and now I'm writing these here so humble.
But I can have a good time, luckily.
At the weekends I do footbag, watch films, (sit here to chat with all of you), read, do other sports, tease my little brother and sisters. But I'd like to have someone to watch those films with me and do at least something. My friends aren't into footbag. I could do it on my own and do other things with my friends.

After weekend I'm so out of the conversation where my friends try to remember what had happened during the weekend.

I can tell you, it all sucks. Hang on to every single friend you've got, cause it isn't always so easy to make new friends.

OT: BTW, is hangover a name of any footbag trick? If isn't, and that Double-Legovering Legover Jeremy hit has no name yet, could this be a good option?

[Torch]

I think that everybody should be required to smoke pot AND take mushrooms one time each before graduating high school. They should have a class senior year call Altered States. This will never happen, but it should.

[Senor Grommet]

why?