Do you cut off the toe walls of your lavers?

Jas · Post by **Jas** » 08 Nov 2004 04:04

Hey guys,
just wondering if the majority of you's cut the walls off your lavers to make pixie sets easier etc.
And also, has it helped a great deal?

Cheers
Jas

max · Post by **max** » 08 Nov 2004 05:10

I cut two eyelets from each wall.
It helps in the sens that I have a VERY hard tiome to do pixies if the eyelets are not cut out.
Yet I've cut them out from my first pair of lavers WAY before I could even do a pixie set, so in that respect I don't know if they are that much of a help. But now I'm hooked

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 08 Nov 2004 05:41

yes i do but you will find alot of ppl who say you dont need to or what ever. For some ppl its not a issue for there pixie sets, bc they can just do them so well. As for me Off with the 2 eyelets

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 08 Nov 2004 06:37

i take toe walls to mean the piece of material BEFORE the first eyelet. i cut that out, but dont remove the eyelets themselves.
i want to not cut the walls on my new ones cos they look so nice now! but i think ill have to. I wish id learned pixies with them on, i think its possible
Dan Ednie doesnt cut the toe walls i believe.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 08 Nov 2004 06:59

It's very possible... You aren't doing your pixies right if you can't do them without the toe wall. Everyone should be learning pixies with the toe walls on.

max · Post by **max** » 08 Nov 2004 07:28

It's very possible... You aren't doing your pixies right if you can't do them without the toe wall. Everyone should be learning pixies with the toe walls on.

It's VERY possible, but following the same reasoning one could say that if you can't clipper delay a golfball wearing wooden clogs then you aren't doing the right motion!!

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 08 Nov 2004 08:08

No, thats extreme max. You should definetly NOT cut the eyelets off your toe.

Pixie sets, btw, should never hook the eyelets, because the dex should be done above your knee. Lift straight up, point your toes, open your leg. The space btween the top of your calf and under your thigh is where the bag should go for a proper hip-set pixie.

Do NOT cut the eyelets off. Doing so will promote unclean pixie/fairy sets.

Sergey · Post by **Sergey** » 08 Nov 2004 08:25

Nicholas,
I agree with you that in most cases cutting eyelets off promotes unclean pixie sets, but on the other hand don't you think that iff a player understands what a clean set is and actually performs the set right, this mod only will help to pixie/fairy, but not lead to unclean sets?

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 08 Nov 2004 09:07

I learned to pixie with them on and then made my pixies BETTER by cutting them off.

I don't believe that having the walls is condusive to doing pixies/fairies "properly" you are just learning to do pixies/fairies with sidewalls. the end. there are different ways to do it. I don't have sidewalls and my pixies/fairies shoot up through my knee pocket every time.

I think proper sets can be learned without sidewalls, you have just learned to navigate around your walls.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 08 Nov 2004 10:00

Mosher -
I think you're incorrect...

While it's possible to learn a proper pixie set with the walls cut off, you can also develop a lot of bad habits. The way I view it is that when you do a pixie set, you should delay it, set, have to wait long enough for the bag to clearly get off your foot, and then dex it. You can bypass the wait without the walls. Have you ever seen someone fling a pixie set off their shoe? That's what happens when you rush it. When I first learned pixie sets, I subconciously really wanted to rush every set, because I thought I had to do that dex really fast! However, as I worked on the set more, I realized that if I slow down a bit, I can dex that bag much, much deeper and cleaner, producing a very straight, clean, and reliable set.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 08 Nov 2004 10:13

Regardless, it all comes down to the player learning proper pixie sets, sidewalls or not.

sampotter · Post by **sampotter** » 08 Nov 2004 10:42

Yes, I do agree, but you have to take into account the player's skill level.

The longer you play, and the more concepts you've learned, the easier it is for you to assess your style and how clean it is. If pixie is the first set you're learning (which, is not far from the truth for a lot of people), you may not be of the mental capacity to diagnose your shitty habits. The walls act as effectual training walls. You are able to tell when you do the set properly as the bag won't be on the other side of the room.

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 08 Nov 2004 11:00

NO you WONT get a better pixie set. If you get a better pixie set from cutting the walls of your shoe, it means that the set is "THE". The reasoning is that because you cut the walls off and now its working properly, its your foot thats dexing, not the leg. Therefore, its thin and doesnt count.

Dont cut the walls off. There is no point in doing it. Learn to do the moves properly. If you do it properly the walls wont be a hindrance.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Nov 2004 11:07

I just think my shoes look better without them.

fuck the norm

Jas · Post by **Jas** » 08 Nov 2004 12:59

yeh nicks right,
but i think a proper and clean pixie set is when the bag has no spin at all. That tells 'me' that theyre not just rolling the bag off their foot and then dex it. I may be wrong but hey...
Whos bag spins when they pixie set?
I get very very little spin when i pixie set barefoot.[/b]

david · Post by **david** » 08 Nov 2004 13:06

nick, i think your too into this. i had my walls on till yesterday. i could pixie, and maybe 1/10 would snag. in my old lavers, i had the walls and no snag. these lavers a half size to big, so its weird, and someitmes it snags, so i cut it off. my pixies arent thin, and if i cut the walls off and dont snag, but can do pixie right WITH walls, who cares?

i dont think its a big deal, and i dont think its cheating. i can pixie with or without it.

EDIT: another point is, if the shoes DIDNT come with walls, youd probably say that ADDING walls would be cheating.

Just call me hagesy · Post by **Just call me hagesy** » 08 Nov 2004 13:11

my flipside does sometimes

But anyway i dont think you should cut your toe walls off. I had the same problem as you when i started doing pixies, and you just have to work at it. It does get better.

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 08 Nov 2004 13:22

i have had the walls on for awhile and off for awhile, and this is what i know about my pixie sets:

you start dexing farther in front of you (getting lazy) when the walls are off. this is bad, because you are doing the motion half-assed. my next pair i am definitely not cutting the walls off.
they do make your pixie sets easier to pull off, but only if you are doing pixies incorrectly in the first place. a clean pixie set should come up through your knee like nick said, and not around the ankle.

bob · Post by **bob** » 08 Nov 2004 13:37

i cut my walls off because when i had walls i relied really heavily on them. when i cut off my walls i noticed i dropped tons of moves ending in toe just because i was so dependent. it took me quite a while to learn to play without walls, but i think it's really improved my game cause it's made me focus alot more on the stall. i'd recommend cutting walls off.

bob glasser

edit: good topic btw.

Laroche · Post by **Laroche** » 08 Nov 2004 13:47

Dave, it has nothing to do with 'cheating' and more to do with 'form' and 'cleanliness'.

Now dont take offense to what im going to say next, its not to insult your game or anything, you have longer strings then i do anyway:

If your pixies are snagging its because you are doing the set wrong. The walls should not even be an ISSUE with pixie sets. Ive seen your pixies, and you do them with a leggy motion. Try just lifting your knee to be parallel to the ground, pointing your toes down, and then opening your hips up.

To get an example of what I mean, watch Lon do his sets. I can think of the css4 vdeo where he has this long shuffle in it, and does a bunch of both sided pixie stuff. Also Sebastien D and Yax have good pixie sets done that way. Especially with Yax its very pronounced.

ps: If you would add walls laver-style then its not cheating. If you add walls where you completely box in the toe, and could hold your foot pointed directly to the ground and the bag would fall, THATS cheating! Though it would fuck up your pixie sets..