Level of Novice Players

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 07 Nov 2004 23:22

I don't think these are novice players

A novice by definiton is someone who is new to the field of play, a beginner.

The term novice is often used to describe someone who has never done something before. i.e. "new"

The novice competitors have obviously put in some level of seriousness into their game (correct me if I'm wrong) if they're linking 4s

I was not given the poll option in this post but I'm interested to see what people think. Yes they're novices, no they're not.

I think there should be 4 catagories. Something like Open, Advanced, Intermediate and Novice or Open, Intermediate, Novice and Beginner.

There needs to be a place for people who's hardest tricks are 2>2>2 or less IMO.

Come to SJFF

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 07 Nov 2004 23:26

no need for this thread, the discussion is raging on elsewhere

the names of the divisions should be changed to generic names, like div1, div2, div3, etc

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 07 Nov 2004 23:38

I must admit i was surprised to see no 2adds at all in the novice sick3's, but I think making an extra devision would be too much hastle for all involved to attempt to solve the problem.
I think that players that cant link anything more than 2>2>2 probably wont be serious enough about the sport yet to go to the trouble of making a video and uploading it etc.

Maybe there should be a poll to find out how many users of the forum have a best sick 3 of 2>2>2 or 3>3>3 or 4>4>4 or 5>5>5 or 6>6>6 or 7>7>7 to find out exactly how many players of each level their are that can possibly participate.

I know I probably fit into the 3>3>3 at the moment which is novice. Theres quite a differance between 3>3>3 and 4>4>4 so it seems 4>4>4 is intermediate, and again there is a large differenace between 4>4>4 and 5>5>5 so i think 5>5>5 should be the lower end of open.

Ofcourse I refer to moves by their add values loosely. You cant really define a moves difficulty by its adds. In this case I use adds as a 'general level of play' so by 4>4>4 i dont mean for example stepping eggbeater>double toe set blender>barrageing ducking toe delay but more ps mirage>pixie butterfly>blur.

I hope this post wasnt too ambiguous lol.

Zerbalicious · Post by **Zerbalicious** » 07 Nov 2004 23:47

BalinorNZ wrote: I think that players that cant link anything more than 2>2>2 probably wont be serious enough about the sport yet to go to the trouble of making a video and uploading it etc.

You probably right.
But if these kids showed up at my event and tried to compete novice I'd have to lay the smack-down

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 08 Nov 2004 09:36

yes, this is definately a subject that warrants attention.

I have a 'novice' player in my club that intends on entering the next sick 3 and he was going to throw down something along the lines of butterfly>pdx mirage>illusion which just can't compete with ripwalks. Come on, RIPWALKS in NOVICE??? fuck off!

Slowsis · Post by **Slowsis** » 08 Nov 2004 09:49

This poses a great problem to the competition. How many true novices will take the time to set up a video?
Though this may sound like i'm an add-hunter i think there should be a total add count for each level.

I.e novice 8 adds or under
intermediate 8-14
open 14 and over

now i know that diwalk is so much easier than diving whirl but that will determine whether or not you win the competition.
That way those who have lots of adds in their combos instead of lots of skill and decide to compete in a higher level will get shown by those with not as many adds but with true skill.

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Nov 2004 10:24

or just get rid of open intermediate and novice..??
replace it with div 1 div 2 div 3 div 4 and the division skill levels will develop themselves over time..

dazza · Post by **dazza** » 08 Nov 2004 16:24

My point exactly, i just posted a similar idea in the novice section.
A divisioning system mirroring the skill levels, tiltless, guiltless and
so on makes the most sense to me.
But i'm new to this, and i'm not too sure if this concept or the
above mentioned sum-of-adds-determines-your-level thing
would actually work.
I just think, it would be more understandible and more objective
with clearer sections, because people then really have to compete with others, who actually are on the same level.
Also no one has to worry about wether voting for a combo, that is not really
novice skill level, but maby" really hard for him/her" to hit

Maby that idea is some bs, but if not, maby the experienced players
could make some decent system out of that ...

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 08 Nov 2004 16:46

I don't like the idea of using adds. Adds aren't very accurate. I'm considering a few combos for my next one and one of the things I'm considering is 4>5>4 - which only just scrapes into open - but the easiest move (I think for most people - not just me) - is the five add in the middle and this combo is way harder than my last one which was 6>5>5 (infact I tried it yesterday and it was too hard - which is why it's a combo I'm just considering)

Perhaps we could have a few different critiera like a combo with any of the following is in open:
at least two moves of 5 adds or above
7 dexes or more
5 spins or more
tripless or higher but all with toes
one of the following moves - a symp double down, flurry, a move involving a swirl compent + at least one more component.
Also anybody who wants to compete in open can - even if they don't meet the requirements - ie if someone hits: reaper>neutron osis (neurosis)>high plains drifter - 3>5>4 - 5 dexes, 1 spin, 0 toe moves and none of the components - whoever is viewing the vids (ie Cole) should recognise the difficulty and put them in open.

You could do the same thing with intermediate - So there are some specific guidlines - plus things that don't meet the guidlines can still be moved up a division (but things that meet the guildlines can't move down a division!

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Nov 2004 21:04

or we could just get rid of open intermediate and novice..??
replace it with div 1 div 2 div 3 div 4 and the division skill levels will develop themselves over time..

BalinorNZ · Post by **BalinorNZ** » 08 Nov 2004 21:32

Slowsis wrote:This poses a great problem to the competition. How many true novices will take the time to set up a video?
Though this may sound like i'm an add-hunter i think there should be a total add count for each level.

I.e novice 8 adds or under
intermediate 8-14
open 14 and over

now i know that diwalk is so much easier than diving whirl but that will determine whether or not you win the competition.
That way those who have lots of adds in their combos instead of lots of skill and decide to compete in a higher level will get shown by those with not as many adds but with true skill.

This is a good idea.

We need to keep skill levels, it is the basis of this competiton working. People enter videos in a devision ith the hope of being able to say they are the best in the novice/intermediate/open division, it just sounds lame if you say your the top of div3, coz the rest of the players in div3 might be hitting toe>toe>clipper :/

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 08 Nov 2004 22:25

BalinorNZ wrote: We need to keep skill levels, it is the basis of this competiton working. People enter videos in a devision ith the hope of being able to say they are the best in the novice/intermediate/open division, it just sounds lame if you say your the top of div3, coz the rest of the players in div3 might be hitting toe>toe>clipper :/

whats the difference if it sounds lame that you say your top of div3 or novice It'll be the same people competing, its just so that people dont complain that people are too good to be considered novice, if they are too good to be in div3 they win 3 in a row and go to div2 no problems no complaints.

why dont we make it so EVERYONE starts in div 3, and cant move to div2 till they win 3 in a row in div3? the only problem with that is youd have to wait for more than one or two people to win 3 rounds in div 3

So we could leave everyone in the division they are in now, a reward for entering their vid in the first round and impliment this rule from now on
everyone starts in div 3 and moves up when they win 3 in a row in that round? well i guess that would be annoying for the newbs who are starting out.. hmm i still like the idea though div3 would be the training grounds and it would take dedication to get out of div3 to enter div2, that could be reward enough.

and if you come dead last in a division three times in a row(other than div3) then you drop down a division and have to battle back up, man I think this idea is solid, any comments?

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 08 Nov 2004 23:42

uhh.. isnt that ALOT of rounds to be winning?? like.. ok. we have a round next week, there is one winner, then two weeks later that dude wins again. he has two now. then two weeks later someone else wins. then two weeks later another dude. three months down the road dude number one has really schooled his ass off and finally gets his third win - OH WAIT - he has to get three in a row. OK, so he busts hard and gets second next round, damn. The seasons change, one other rogue shredder gets a covetted 2-peat and almost moves to the next level.. all alone.. uhh.. and all the meanwhile everyone else is sitting down "somewhere' in the rankings.

Doesn't that seem a little ridiculous?

How about three wins at any division level at any time move you up. It is unfeasable for everyone to start in the same place. We can sort them out pretty easily by telling who didn't fit into which category in the first round and as rounds progress we will get better at knowing what sort of tricks fit within each division.

Adds shmadds.

I definately think there need to be several levels and calling them silliy things like "beginner" "lower upper middle skill" "cusping on bustage" is just confusing. we need straight up division 1, division 2 etc like seath suggested.

if you win three (or two or whatever) then you move up. That seems pretty smart sounding.

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 09 Nov 2004 07:04

i agree with tom, on some levels, i think that the div1,2,3 idea is sweet, but i just think the simple rule of, if you win in novice u go to advance and if u win that then u move up one again, just have it like that, if you win in a catagory clearly then you are better then what the skill level is, so just move up and that would solve that. Altho with time i think it could back fire, and there wont be enogh ppl in the novice catagory to compete. thats where im stuck i dont know a sulution for that.

sorry for the spelling, i suck.