How many have you killed in the name of christ?
The new crusade
The US military has announced it is looking into whether a marine in Falluja shot dead an unarmed, severely wounded Iraqi insurgent at point-blank range.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 014901.stm#
but that's not the point.
the marine did it in front of a camera.
in a mosque.
that's gotta be worth a few thousand new matyrs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 014901.stm#
but that's not the point.
the marine did it in front of a camera.
in a mosque.
that's gotta be worth a few thousand new matyrs.
-Dale Jury
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brian relly
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BainbridgeShred
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wolfpac444
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BainbridgeShred
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OBVIOUS ACCIDENT?!?!?
I don't get it.
Injured men lieing on floor. Marines nonchalantly standing around. A marine leans over one of the prone men on the floor. "He's not fucking dead, he's fucking faking he's dead." Calm but loud voice. He points his rifle at the injured, unmoving Iraqi's head, then calmly pulls the trigger. Non of the other marines seem to perturbed by this and carry on. The camera crew reports the incident to the chain of command the unit does not.
I don't get it.
Injured men lieing on floor. Marines nonchalantly standing around. A marine leans over one of the prone men on the floor. "He's not fucking dead, he's fucking faking he's dead." Calm but loud voice. He points his rifle at the injured, unmoving Iraqi's head, then calmly pulls the trigger. Non of the other marines seem to perturbed by this and carry on. The camera crew reports the incident to the chain of command the unit does not.
-Dale Jury
I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with individual soldiers being held accountable for their actions, but I have to think that when you're a soldier in a foreign country on the other side of the world in the military and you don't do what your commander tells you to do, you're in for a world of pain. Plus they condition (i.e. brainwash) these kids to think that if they don't do what their commander tells them to do it's could result in a loss of their own or (worse,) their comrades’ lives. It is dangerous for individuals to make decisions in war situations. BUT, there is no reason that any person should loose their sense of compassion for another human being's pain. No one should be let off the hook for taking pleasure in someone else's pain (like in the scandal with the pics/videos of soldiers torturing their prisoners while the soldiers were laughing from a while ago).wolfpac444 wrote:Why shouldn't the soldiers be held just as responsible for their actions? Nobody is forcing them to do anything they don't want to.
Also:
And thinking we’re not “Terrorists?” There will always be someone thinking that what we’re doing is wrong. To them, the word “terrorist” doesn’t mean what we think it does. We just have to bear it in mind and try and overcome that by showing them that we have stopped doing the things that we have been finding ourselves guilty of recently.BainbridgeShred wrote:...he should be dealt with swiftly and quickly just to show the Muslim world that we aren't just as bad as the terrorists, but from the video I saw today it was an obvious accident so I really can't blame him.
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A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past, he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future.--Sidney J. Harris
Emily Kulczyk
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BainbridgeShred
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Yes but these guys have been using these tactics, they pretend to be dead and as a soldier runs past them they bust a hole in their side. I can't blame a soldier who I don't think was acting maliciously for trying to protect his own life.Injured men lieing on floor. Marines nonchalantly standing around. A marine leans over one of the prone men on the floor. "He's not fucking dead, he's fucking faking he's dead." Calm but loud voice. He points his rifle at the injured, unmoving Iraqi's head, then calmly pulls the trigger. Non of the other marines seem to perturbed by this and carry on. The camera crew reports the incident to the chain of command the unit does not.
Anyways, I guess I'll watch the video again and reevalute the incident. Not that my opinion fucking matters... I can't even vote.
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HighDemonslayer
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Some other troops, known to the troops in question. were recently wounded, and one killed by a "booby trapped" injured combatant.
So you could understand the paranoia of these troops, their buddy was just killed by a "faking wounded" enemy.
Geneva convention stuff aside, if you fight with the dirtiest, unconventional tactics that exist, then you are a lethal threat to your battlefield opponents as long as you pull breath. (and after you are dead, if you have grenade rigged to blow)
Even if those wounded enemies had been disarmed a day earlier, someone could have slipped in and left them some explosives during the night.
The solution to this problem, is to remove all embeddded reporters, and charge the one who released this footage with a crime. This reporting hamstrings the war effort, and could directly influence more enemies to join the fight, and result in more casualties.
Frenzal said:
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that's gotta be worth a few thousand new matyrs.
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-n
So you could understand the paranoia of these troops, their buddy was just killed by a "faking wounded" enemy.
Geneva convention stuff aside, if you fight with the dirtiest, unconventional tactics that exist, then you are a lethal threat to your battlefield opponents as long as you pull breath. (and after you are dead, if you have grenade rigged to blow)
Even if those wounded enemies had been disarmed a day earlier, someone could have slipped in and left them some explosives during the night.
The solution to this problem, is to remove all embeddded reporters, and charge the one who released this footage with a crime. This reporting hamstrings the war effort, and could directly influence more enemies to join the fight, and result in more casualties.
Frenzal said:
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that's gotta be worth a few thousand new matyrs.
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-n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
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-nathan
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-nathan
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HighDemonslayer
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BainBridgeShred said:
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Oh no don't get me wrong, he should be dealt with swiftly and quickly just to show the Muslim world that we aren't just as bad as the terrorists, but from the video I saw today it was an obvious accident so I really can't blame him.
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We don't want to deal with him swiftly and quickly (if you mean prosecute the soldier).
That would show the Muslim world our weakness, punishing our OWN troops for killing the enemy, and further encourage them to use dirty, "un-Geneva" tactics.
That soldier, right or wrong, should be given a medal for protecting his squad. That would earn respect in the "Muslim world" (to use Bainbriges term).
Am I making a stretch in stereotyping the "Muslim world" as respecting strength, and holding contempt for weakness?
-n
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Oh no don't get me wrong, he should be dealt with swiftly and quickly just to show the Muslim world that we aren't just as bad as the terrorists, but from the video I saw today it was an obvious accident so I really can't blame him.
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We don't want to deal with him swiftly and quickly (if you mean prosecute the soldier).
That would show the Muslim world our weakness, punishing our OWN troops for killing the enemy, and further encourage them to use dirty, "un-Geneva" tactics.
That soldier, right or wrong, should be given a medal for protecting his squad. That would earn respect in the "Muslim world" (to use Bainbriges term).
Am I making a stretch in stereotyping the "Muslim world" as respecting strength, and holding contempt for weakness?
-n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
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-nathan
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-nathan
Hahaha, oh man, they would NEVER call these crusades. They are more like conquests... The idea of crusades never goes over well with people being that the Christians had four failed attempts to conquer back the holy land, resulting in a bajillion casualties.
Daniel G. 'Vanderwax'
'The head of state has called for me, by name, but I don't have time for him.'
Your administration DID call this a crusade. The fools.
And the oils not even nearly paying for this war and the way things are going oil will be obselete before you stabilise things enuogh to get any of it.
This man was unarmed, obviously injured and the half dozen or so marines standing about seems to preclude the chance that he was waiting for the first one through the door so he could pop a cap. What the marine in question did was nothing but cold blooded murder.
Wam Bam Vietnam.
And the oils not even nearly paying for this war and the way things are going oil will be obselete before you stabilise things enuogh to get any of it.
This man was unarmed, obviously injured and the half dozen or so marines standing about seems to preclude the chance that he was waiting for the first one through the door so he could pop a cap. What the marine in question did was nothing but cold blooded murder.
Wam Bam Vietnam.
-Dale Jury
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HighDemonslayer
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Everybody figured I would vote for Bush before the election.
Although, I was considering not voting for that office.
I filled out all the rest of ballot first.
Lastly, I literally held my nose, and checked off Bush on the ballot.
Then, I swear to God, the ballot-reader-machine incremented it's count to "666" after I put my ballot in. If I didn't vote for president, and turned in my ballot sooner, I would have been safe at "665" .
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I am I disqualified from criticizing the President, and lambasting his cabinet because I may have voted for him?
I am extra critical of him now that he is re-elected, because he is still acting like he has to pander to the media and the losers.
Somebody needs to grab him by the collar and scream in his face, "YOU WON, DUMB SHIT!"
Everybody is worried that Bush will implement some far-right agenda now that he is re-elected.
But the exact opposite will happen. Bush now doesn't have to worry about his base, he is free to move as far to the left as possible.
His sending an envoy to Mexico to see how much of America he can giveaway, for nothing in return, is just the start.
The streetfighting in Falluja might be another........ I gotta stop writing, I'm getting pissed off.
So I can be just as critical of Bush as anyone. I just think some people's petty complaints about him are insignificant, compared to the real dangers his "weakness" may bring.
-n
Although, I was considering not voting for that office.
I filled out all the rest of ballot first.
Lastly, I literally held my nose, and checked off Bush on the ballot.
Then, I swear to God, the ballot-reader-machine incremented it's count to "666" after I put my ballot in. If I didn't vote for president, and turned in my ballot sooner, I would have been safe at "665" .
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I am I disqualified from criticizing the President, and lambasting his cabinet because I may have voted for him?
I am extra critical of him now that he is re-elected, because he is still acting like he has to pander to the media and the losers.
Somebody needs to grab him by the collar and scream in his face, "YOU WON, DUMB SHIT!"
Everybody is worried that Bush will implement some far-right agenda now that he is re-elected.
But the exact opposite will happen. Bush now doesn't have to worry about his base, he is free to move as far to the left as possible.
His sending an envoy to Mexico to see how much of America he can giveaway, for nothing in return, is just the start.
The streetfighting in Falluja might be another........ I gotta stop writing, I'm getting pissed off.
So I can be just as critical of Bush as anyone. I just think some people's petty complaints about him are insignificant, compared to the real dangers his "weakness" may bring.
-n
Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?
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-nathan
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-nathan
I've given up reading Nathen's posts because they are too ignorant. I will never know if he stops seeing the world in an imperalist black and white view but I don't think that will happen anyway.
I'm amazed to see people defending the soldier. It was a blatent war crime and I can see no justification for cold blooded murder. The geneva convention was set up precisly to stop crimes like that occuring.
Considering the amount of people who are delt with by the US military without a camera or independent witness, it seems inevitable that many more such crimes have been commited and not reported or delt with.
I also think that the entire military should be held accountable since it is the training and orders given to the individual soldiers that directly effect the way they act when dealing with unarmed and injured people.
To repeat what Frenzal wrote - the Bush administration has called this another crusade and I believe it's a very accurate and honest opinion of the conflict. The crusades were basically big Christian armies going to Isamic states and killing as many people as they could.
Frankly I do call the US a terrorist state. In my opinion terrorism is attack non military targets in order to strike fear into the opposition. The US military has a number of times boasted that that is exactly what they're doing. It's pretty clear that since the white invasion of North America, central north america (ie. the US) has been the land of hypocricy and has never been "the land of the free" (unless you are a rich white christian male). I hope nobody believes the gross lie that the US is a leader of the free world. In my opinion the US isn't even part of the free world - just because you have a great deal of freedom in the US - one just needs to look at the amount of oppression that goes on in other countries (colombia, mexico, afghanistan, cuba, iraq, liberia etc.) to see that really more people are not free because of the US then are free.
</rant>
I'm amazed to see people defending the soldier. It was a blatent war crime and I can see no justification for cold blooded murder. The geneva convention was set up precisly to stop crimes like that occuring.
Considering the amount of people who are delt with by the US military without a camera or independent witness, it seems inevitable that many more such crimes have been commited and not reported or delt with.
I also think that the entire military should be held accountable since it is the training and orders given to the individual soldiers that directly effect the way they act when dealing with unarmed and injured people.
To repeat what Frenzal wrote - the Bush administration has called this another crusade and I believe it's a very accurate and honest opinion of the conflict. The crusades were basically big Christian armies going to Isamic states and killing as many people as they could.
Frankly I do call the US a terrorist state. In my opinion terrorism is attack non military targets in order to strike fear into the opposition. The US military has a number of times boasted that that is exactly what they're doing. It's pretty clear that since the white invasion of North America, central north america (ie. the US) has been the land of hypocricy and has never been "the land of the free" (unless you are a rich white christian male). I hope nobody believes the gross lie that the US is a leader of the free world. In my opinion the US isn't even part of the free world - just because you have a great deal of freedom in the US - one just needs to look at the amount of oppression that goes on in other countries (colombia, mexico, afghanistan, cuba, iraq, liberia etc.) to see that really more people are not free because of the US then are free.
</rant>
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wolfpac444
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I actually like reading all of Nathan's posts, and somewhat wish he would post more often. It is amusingJeremy wrote:I've given up reading Nathen's posts because they are too ignorant. I will never know if he stops seeing the world in an imperalist black and white view but I don't think that will happen anyway.
Mike Hansen