Doping in sport.

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 09 Dec 2004 03:58

I've been thinking about this since the Olympics. Should we just accept the fact that, with all the science in body mechanics and sports institutes... should doping be legal in sport? More specificly, in Footbag?

Now I'm not talking recreational drugs, I'm talking the hardcore stuff - performance inhancing.

At the moment, there's a big enough problem with keeping the Olympics clean, so should we just accept it? Especially now that we have the technology to take the human body further than before. Sure, people who take these drugs may suffer long term health risks, but isn't it worth it for the glory? Concidering the other sacrifices that atheletes make, surely allowing them to sacrifice their helath is acceptable, too? And isn't it their choice, anyway?

Perhaps we should have a doping Olympics, where those more highly tuned atheletes can go faster, longer, and harder than any other human before them?

And what about in footbag? Would doping be ok, to help us reach, say a 6 dex move (or more)? I mean, how insane would a nemesis DLO be, for instance? Would it be woth it?
If you could tune your body with the use of a sports institute and performance inhancing drugs... Would You?

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 09 Dec 2004 11:01

This makes me think about artificial body parts, or nano-enhanced muscles, or genetically grown athletes.

Performance enhancing drugs may become obselete.

-n

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 09 Dec 2004 12:59

we should definitely ban any performance enhancing drugs!
the closer we meet the standards of the Olympics, the sooner
they will be interested in footbag. not only that but... don't we
care about out fellow shredders? performance drugs can cause
some serious problems, including heart attacks out of nowhere.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 09 Dec 2004 14:25

People who are willing to have their balls shrivel up in the name of athletiscism shouldn't have chemical superiority over someone who cares for their body, and wants to live a healthy lifestyle. What message do we send to kids in sports? It's contradictory to do sports for health, only to turn around and ruin your body.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 09 Dec 2004 17:54

I have a variety of different conflicting views on this issue.

Firstly I think performance enhancing drugs should be banned from footbag to follow olympic standards. I am sure it isn't a problem at the moment anyway and testing wouldn't be neccessary.

I've played sport at a pretty high level for most of my life and I think because of the current anti doping laws - you shouldn't do it because it is cheating. Not only that but I get no pleasure out of beating people when I have a big advantage over them already. Now I'm not talking about drugs - but just in touch footy for example I've been playing for like 6 years or so now - I've been coached by a state level coach since I started playing - it's no surprise that I am a better player than a 58 year old former football player who has taken up the sport to stay fit now that his knees are fucked from other stuff - and when I score on those kinds of people I feel more like a dick then any glory. I think it would be same with taking drugs - if I was taking drugs and they weren't - well it doesn't prove anything - just that the drugs are good. I am a very competitative person and I enjoy winning - but I only enjoy winning if it's because I've acutally played better on the day - not if it's because I have a predetermined advantage.

But then my other view is that wouldn't it be great to see how far we can push human ability - using all the science we have. Like at the moment we can build an exceptional human up to run 100 meters in 9.8 seconds. That's pretty amazing. Using more science what could we achieve? Could we get under 9 seconds? I guess one of the things I really like about footbag is that because so few people play and it's a new sport - it doesn't take too long before you can be pushing the boundaries of what is considered humanly possible. When I first learnt about tricks and read the move list at footbag.org - I couldn't believe that going around the bag 3 times was possible. Now there are people pushing for 5 times and 3 is seen as not that hard. I would love to travel 300 years into the future and see what people are doing then.

I would call myself a nihilist amonst other things - so I don't feel like it's a problem taking drugs in general - I think you should do whatever you want with your own body. Obviously it's a problem when they are outlawed and only some people are doing it - because to some degree it makes the competition pointless. Athletes who take drugs aren't lazy - they work just as hard as everybody else - but they have that extra advantage that means I would back a drug taking athlete over a non drug taking athlete most of the time.

I guess the problem with making drugs legal is that many of them have negative effects on the body in the long term - and it means that people who want to still be fit and healthy after the give up eliet sport won't really be able to compete. This would definitly be a shame - but at the same time - eliet sport is about pushing yourself to the limits. If you aren't prepared to do that - maybe you shouldn't be competeing anyway.

So personally if tomorrow somebody offered me a drug that would make me a better footbagger - I would turn them down until there was an official protocol that allowed for me to take performance enhancing drugs - but if there was - I think I'd probably would take the drugs.

I hope that all makes sense!

crazygeminirider · Post by **crazygeminirider** » 09 Dec 2004 18:38

one thing that bothers me..is that there is only so far the human can go?...and if u step back a minute..and look at it..one may think, well..theres evolution within the human body?...so..the 100 9.8..and then 4 years later the 100 in 8.9?...is that evolution?...or whats going on?

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 11 Dec 2004 06:51

I think that there are not many sports where people do not use doping methods these days.
There are some specific sports like cycling or running where everybody knows that you cannot be on top without this advantage ( or better not to have the disadvantage) of (non-)doping.

There are several organisations which try to keep control about the outcome of dpoing stories like nba ( I do not know but I guess) or atp.

I am sure that there are lots of tennis players which are using forbidden substances- if they get catched they have to be "injured" for some period of time.

The reason for this cheating is the money - sponsors want their athletes to set up new records.
Athletes want to be professional - so they have to stay on top or somebody else will take their place.

I cannot remind the source of that, but there is a report about the chief of doping investigation ( a greek person) during the olympic games- it is very interesting to read.

nowadays there are some sports which do not want to find the cheating members ( I guess the us athletic team is a good example) because big companies like Nike do not want to get some relation between doping/cheating and their company name.

In my opinion it is not to decide if we want to allow doping because in "public" sports the winner is always the best connection of chemistry and the best athletic.

what is with the college sport in the us - maybe someone of you know one of the athletes who will be drafted by a professional sportsteam - have he used doping to become that good ?

chris, what are your expierences with that , as far as I know you are a very good at judo ?

zachatree · Post by **zachatree** » 11 Dec 2004 09:54

i never gave it thought till now that your exsactly right, i think there is no problem in takeing something thats gonna inhance my performance, you can only do something for so long any way, why not do it to the fullest and make a name for your self, the resks are there. but i wouldnt care, if i lived to be 28 ill be happy, that seems like a long time to me. and think, if we took drugs to help performance and we had problems, wouldnt that push the effort to make some other drugs or something to counter the problems to the point where we would have super humanbeaings? a stronger, faster,taller,maybe even HEALTHYER one day.

awsome subject really makes you think.

crazydwarf · Post by **crazydwarf** » 12 Dec 2004 19:29

Firstly isn't doping the taking out of blood and then later re-inserting it into the body so that you have more red blood cells and therefore have more oxygen going to your lungs... I don't think it has anything to do with steroids or anything maybe I'm wrong though...

The reason I don't support this kind of stuff is that even if some people are willing to screw up there body fine. But the other players who want there body for later in life shouldn't be forced to be "second class" athletes just because they don't want to use performance enhancers...

one thing that bothers me..is that there is only so far the human can go?...and if u step back a minute..and look at it..one may think, well..theres evolution within the human body?...so..the 100 9.8..and then 4 years later the 100 in 8.9?...is that evolution?...or whats going on?

I understand what your saying, but no the human body's evolution is not making our times faster. Evolution takes much much longer then that... It is probably do to the fact that either more people try running so obviously we will find more very good ones, or that we have better training methods... hope that's what you where asking...

Brad Harold · Post by **Brad Harold** » 12 Dec 2004 21:36

As far as following Olympic guidelines goes, I don't think that is very realistic, because they ban EVERYTHING, including marijuana (even though it isn't a performance enhancing drug). I don't smoke, but judging from the number of weed related threads, everyone else does.

As a matter of principle, I don't believe in drug bans for a variety of reasons, but mostly because they simply do not work.

Performance enhancing drugs DO work, however. Yeah they carry risks, but the risks, contrary to D.A.R.E. propaganda, are manageable. Some people, overcome by a desire to win, will find a way to hurt themselves with drugs. I have no doubts about that...But I also have no doubt that taking an adult attitude about drugs would, in the long run and for the majority of people, be the best course of action. I don't think its a good idea to legislate to the minority and keep beneficial things away from everyone because a handful of people screw up.

That being said, however, in the real world drug testing is a fact of life. I think right now footbag doesn't need drug testing, but if and when it goes "mainstream", it will have it, like it or not.

NotHisRealName · Post by **NotHisRealName** » 12 Dec 2004 23:57

Ok, so should footbag have drug testing. Now, I'm talking footbag specificly, not just so that it falls into the Olympic scheme of things.

Would you dope up to play better?

Would you feel cheeted if someone else was doping up?

Or would it just be way cool to see someone busting out, superhuman style?

ShredPirate · Post by **ShredPirate** » 13 Dec 2004 02:31

crazygeminirider wrote:one thing that bothers me..is that there is only so far the human can go?...and if u step back a minute..and look at it..one may think, well..theres evolution within the human body?...so..the 100 9.8..and then 4 years later the 100 in 8.9?...is that evolution?...or whats going on?

in judo, there was this one guy named robert who was my height/weight/skilllevel. at first he was better than me, and i pushed myself to beat him. then he pushed himself to beat me, and he did again. then i had to push myself yet again to be able to beat him. with all this rivalry between us, we totally surpassed everyone else. im sure that happens in every olympic sport. except its not just within your club, but with your rival in another country.

i'm thinking thats one factor in why vasek/honza/ales, and justin/ricky are so good.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 14 Dec 2004 10:59

Do steriods increase your balance?

If they don't, then you'll might "drop early, drop often" if you use them.

-n

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 14 Dec 2004 11:52

I think that it is hard to increase your footbag game by taking steroids.

I guess steroids will not work but some recreational things could work well.

A faster recreation will make to train harder/ more often.
Maybe you can transfer the principles of supercompensation( attraction setting- exhaustion- recreation- adjustment- attraction setting...) to the learning process as well as for conditional aspects of improving.

Using doping methods is only to optimize your training/learning process.

In contrast to the theory is, that guys like Vasek shred all day long so they should get in some kind of overtraining very fast- but I do not claim to know more about training schedules than some of the fastest improving guys out there ( which I guess train hard and ling and very often).

For me I try to get as fast forward as possible , but my game is getting better very slowly.

That is another kind about this enormous variety of this sport- power for hard moves and coordination.
It is hard to find the perfect way to find the best combination to train these two things.

Summing up it is hard to find the right doping method for footbag.
Moreover you have a good chance to damage your health and slow down your learning process.

P.S.: I will count how often I agree to your opinion Nathan - here we are :1

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 14 Dec 2004 12:38

-1

That was a question, and a suggestion, not an opinion.

-n