Bush 'Undermining UN with Aid Coalition' ?

blackcrown · Post by **blackcrown** » 30 Dec 2004 14:29

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3944374

What do you think? Is this just GW trying to make himself to like a leader?

Eric

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 31 Dec 2004 02:58

Yeah fuck his responce pissed me off. Not only did it take him 4 days to say anything about it - but it's so fucking arrogant and probably offensive to all the other countries around the world who are giving as much aid as they can.

The fact that the US government is so fucking selfish that it took international pressure to make them make more than a token responce makes me so angry.

I don't just see the US responce as incredibly selfish and disgusting in it's lack of sympathy for the hundreds of thousands of dead - but also incredibly stupid.

The US is fighting a war in Afghanistan, a War in Iraq and supporting a war in Israel. These are all Muslim countries. At least 80,000 people get killed in the worlds largest muslim country and millions are made homeless and countries the size of New Zealand offer more support and help than the US. Regardless of this being a direct anti Islam policy or not - I am sure that the US responce is going to create a lot more anti US sentiment unless they really get their act together and start showing that they really are the great nation that they claim to be - and not a selfish greedy religiously fanatic imperalist global dictatorship.

I heard yesterday that a recent survey of the US found that the majority of americans believe the Government gives about 25% of the budget to foreign aid. In actual fact the number is less than 0.25% - the lowest of any developed nation.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 02 Jan 2005 19:04

The Bush administration demonstrated the compassion of our Morally superior Christian nation when they made a token gesture of 15mil USD. Then they doubled the amount to 35mil USD. Now it has gone up to 350mil USD.

Bush couldn't even be bothered to interrupt his vaction in texas to make an appearance for half a week.

I put together some before and after Tsunami images, but don't have anywhere to host them. The devastion is larger than I could have imagined. The number of dead people in some of the close up photos is astonishing.

Imagine having 200 world trade centers collapse, and the world handing a check over for 15 million USD. That is what this administration tried to do.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 02 Jan 2005 19:21

Below is prior to tsunami with the after photo on top +transparent.
The light land at the top of the photo where there is no overlap is not there anymore . . . where the photos overlap, the remaining land is whitish in color, and the land that is gone has a is dull.
I think the landmass moved, because it was hell trying to find an optimal alignment of the two photos.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 02 Jan 2005 19:23

if there was an edit button I would have added . . . these were from a region "not hit that hard" by the waves.

Someone should mirror this image if you want it because I will have to pull it from this server soon.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 03 Jan 2005 09:54

I can't believe Japan undermined the US contribution by pledging 500 million dollars, and they didn't even need to set up a special relief fund to draw attention to themselves.

MegaFighter_X · Post by **MegaFighter_X** » 03 Jan 2005 13:44

It is arrogant to do this. It's saying that we are better than a world orginization. It's rediculous!

However, it's good that aid is getting there period...

crazydwarf · Post by **crazydwarf** » 03 Jan 2005 15:51

well it seems like the U.S. is doing a good thing , giving money to a country in need, in a very bad way... I guess I'd have to say that I'd rather they gave money this way then not at all... deffenatly bad form though...

Tsiangkun that pictures crazy, I mean that land is just gone... it took me a while to relise what that ment but man that's insanse...

One of my teachers at school was present during the tsunomia... he said he was on the beach after the earthquake and he knew that tsunomia's sometimes accured because of earthquakes and when the water started receading he just started screaming and people to get off the beach and ran as fast as he could and got on high ground... he was ok luckily, but he said he saw people get washed away and such...

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 03 Jan 2005 16:08

I just ran down a list of aide givers and did not see the Great Russia on there anywhere. Didn't their govt. just buy an oil monopoly from themselves? Surely Yukos can afford some support.

I'm not as depressed by the whole US - Big Brother thing, as I was at first by their lack of support. At first I was like 38 million??? Are we joking???

Then the 10 fold responce was kinda a joke as well. How many billions have been spent ousting Saddam? We've spent more in bullets than in aide.

I'd also like to point out that the Great United Nations is sitting on it's hands at the moment. What?- Disease and the greatest number of casualties ever is still not enough for the UN to flex it's muscles?

It's embarrasing. I would think that the members of the world body would be falling out of their seats to help.

Instead Bush has been allowed to create another coalition to lead the way rather than the UN stepping up and saying "WE GOT THIS".

Just once it would be nice to see the UN assume the role for which they were created.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 03 Jan 2005 20:04

Why do people have such a hard time understanding what the UN is. It tells you in its name:

United Nations

The UN is doing a shit load of stuff - go to www.un.org and check it out. But most of what the UN does is work with other groups to co-ordinate the responce - the UN is just a forum for the nations of the world to work with.

I think the difference between Russia and the US - is that Russia is a poor country - it has an average wage per person of less than 1/4 of that of the US.

blackcrown · Post by **blackcrown** » 05 Jan 2005 16:12

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f94c32b6-5f00- ... 511c8.html

It looks like GW did this because his feelings got hurt by mean ol' Jan Egeland. Jan said that the richer countrys shouldn't be "stingy" with aid money. And he was 100% right. Jan recognized this as the worst natural disaster of our life time within 48 hours of the earthquake. I want to go off on GW, but I can't really think of the words to express my disgust with this "man" right now.

Eric

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 05 Jan 2005 16:20

I'm disgusted that Citigroup received over 4 BILLION USD in tax cuts last year, and our donation to the largest natural dissaster of our lifetime is 350 million, all while we spend well over 350 million daily "liberating" the iraqies.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 05 Jan 2005 18:07

blackcrown wrote:http://news.ft.com/cms/s/f94c32b6-5f00- ... 511c8.html

It looks like GW did this because his feelings got hurt by mean ol' Jan Egeland. Jan said that the richer countrys shouldn't be "stingy" with aid money. And he was 100% right. Jan recognized this as the worst natural disaster of our life time within 48 hours of the earthquake. I want to go off on GW, but I can't really think of the words to express my disgust with this "man" right now.

Eric

Yeah totally - that's what I was talking about when I said

The fact that the US government is so fucking selfish that it took international pressure to make them make more than a token responce makes me so angry.

I also read today that Austalia has now pledged more than $1,000,000,000 (1 billion) in aid (for now and the future) - We have also raised more than $100,000,000 (100 million) in private donations. Not that it's really fair to compare different countries but it's nice to have something to make me feel good about my country for once. I know a few people who are going over there too to help out (a nurse and an agricultural scientist - not just random people). I really hope it creates a move towards breaking down borders and creating peace - a unified world - although pretty clearly the US will stay out of the unification...

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 05 Jan 2005 19:52

I know I'm going to sound like Sean Hannity here for a second, but the US military is doing more than most countries as far as military aid (As contradictory as it sounds) by sending two aircraft carriers over there. This alone costs quite a lot of money, but I forget the exact numbers.

Sure this doesn't justify the USA's meager monetary donations.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 05 Jan 2005 19:54

Anyways look, from a totally objective standpoint, the US has no obligation to give aid to these countries. The only reason we do in the first place is for political capital.

junkyardjew · Post by **junkyardjew** » 06 Jan 2005 12:47

350 million is what the US spends for 44 MINUTES in iraq, and not only that, but this isn't a new aid pledge, they are in fact taking the money out of aid that was earmarked for africa and the USAID program.

also, if the US really wanted to help, they could remove their support for the indonesian military which is arresting and interrogating aids workers flooding into the region to help the Acehnese (pronounced awchinese aparently...). the indonesian government has killed almost three thousand people in Aceh (which is, i believe, a seperatist province of indonesia). all with american support (money and weapons).

if they spent more time condemning the terrorist actions of their client states, and less time propogating their own brand of international terrorism, perhaps they could make a real difference in the world. its too bad that isn't in the best interest of american citizens...

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 06 Jan 2005 18:56

BainbridgeShred wrote:Anyways look, from a totally objective standpoint, the US has no obligation to give aid to these countries. The only reason we do in the first place is for political capital.

Totally true. That's why the US gets given names like "stingy" "selfish" and "greedy" - It's probably even part of the reason why people hate you so much they are prepared to kill themselves to kill you.

However it's good to know that the rest of the world cares about humanity and not just themselves.

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 06 Jan 2005 19:17

Are you saying were stingy and greedy because we don't have an obligation to give money to countries in need, or because we only do it for political capital?

If this is the case, the same is appliable to all countries everywhere.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 07 Jan 2005 00:48

I'm saying that because the US responce is nowhere near that of many other countries - despite being the richest country in the world - and because the attitude seems to be one of - "we don't have to help so we won't" - people have been using words like "stingy" "greedy" and "selfish" when talking about your country - I'm talking about international journalists and political figures.

Please note that I am not saying that it is or isn't my opinion that the US is stingy, greedy or selfish - just that other people are saying that.

As a country that is already hated by many countries - for those very reasons - I think it really would be in the US's best interests to be as generous as people in other countries.

The top 25 Tsunami Aid donars per capita:

1. Australia $42.37 per person
2. Norway $39.81 per person
3. Qatar $30.59 per person
4. Luxembourg $14.97 per person
5. Denmark $14.26 per person
6. Sweden $8.44 per person
7. Germany $8.34 per person
8. United Arab Emirates $8.04 per person
9. Kuwait $4.58 per person
10. Ireland $4.07 per person
11. Japan $3.93 per person
12. Switzerland $3.25 per person
13. Finland $3.04 per person
14. Bahrain $2.99 per person
15. Netherlands $2.29 per person
16. Taiwan $2.22 per person
17. Canada $2.03 per person
18. Spain $1.71 per person
19. Italy $1.63 per person
20. United Kingdom $1.59 per person
21. Belgium $1.59 per person
22. Austria $1.32 per person
23. Saudi Arabia $1.23 per person
24. United States $1.20 per person
25. France $1.10 per person

Total Funds pledged

1. Australia $836,200,000
2. Germany $688,000,000
3. Japan $500,000,000
4. United States $350,000,000
5. India $183,000,000
6. Norway $181,000,000
7. United Kingdom $96,000,000
8. Italy $95,000,000
9. Denmark $76,830,000
10. Sweden $75,000,000
11. Spain $69,000,000
12. France $66,380,000
13. Canada $65,400,000
14. China $63,000,000
15. Taiwan $50,250,000
16. Netherlands $37,000,000
17. Saudi Arabia $30,000,000
18. Qatar $25,000,000
19. Switzerland $23,810,000
20. United Arab Emirates $20,000,000
21. Belgium $16,400,000
22. Ireland $16,000,000
23. Finland $15,800,000
24. Austria $10,880,000
25. Portugal $10,880,000

Per GDP
1. Australia $1.59 million per $1 billion
2. Qatar $1.57 million per $1 billion
3. Norway $1.21 million per $1 billion
4. Denmark $494719.89 per $1 billion
5. United Arab Emirates $370576.24 per $1 billion
6. Sweden $325097.52 per $1 billion
7. Germany $318518.51 per $1 billion
8. Luxembourg $309936.18 per $1 billion
9. Kuwait $271370.42 per $1 billion
10. Bahrain $201816.34 per $1 billion
11. Ireland $140721.19 per $1 billion
12. Japan $136948.78 per $1 billion
13. Taiwan $123768.47 per $1 billion
14. Finland $118086.69 per $1 billion
15. Saudi Arabia $111565.63 per $1 billion
16. Switzerland $102013.71 per $1 billion
17. Netherlands $84513.47 per $1 billion
18. Spain $81109.67 per $1 billion
19. Canada $70013.91 per $1 billion
20. India $68693.69 per $1 billion
21. Italy $65292.09 per $1 billion
22. United Kingdom $62827.22 per $1 billion
23. Libya $59952.03 per $1 billion
24. Portugal $55737.70 per $1 billion
25. Belgium $54721.38 per $1 billion
...
29. United States $33492.82 per $1 billion

These are actually a tiny bit out of date since Australia's pledges are now over $1,000,000,000 - although that includes long term pledges to Indonesia that might not be included in the statistics.

Stats from:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/dis_tsu_fun_ple

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/dis_tsu_fun_ple_cap

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/dis_tsu_fun_ple_gdp

Obviously this disaster has occured in Australia's region - so you'd expect us - as the richest country in the region - to give the most amount of money - I don't expect the US to give more than anybody else - it would be nice if they would at least spend more money on saving peoples lives than they are spending on killing people - or not even that - if they could at least give as much in total - as the spend on killing people in one day that would be great. It's interesting that a third world country like Libya - that is also nowhere near the disaster and has been bombed and had heavy economic sanctions against it for around 20 years - can still afford to give a greater percentage of its budget to the disaster than the US - and a considerable amount more too!

Edit: Private funds pledged per person:
1. Norway $12.31 per person
2. Switzerland $11.79 per person
3. Sweden $7.32 per person
4. Hong Kong $6.93 per person
5. Netherlands $5.32 per person
6. Australia $3.93 per person
7. Finland $3.44 per person
8. Ireland $2.74 per person
9. Taiwan $2.65 per person
10. United Kingdom $2.41 per person
11. Denmark $2.15 per person
12. Germany $2.09 per person
13. Greece $1.86 per person
14. Canada $1.77 per person
15. Austria $1.66 per person
16. United States $1.31 per person
17. Belgium $0.82 per person
18. Italy $0.51 per person
19. Portugal $0.26 per person
20. Czech Republic $0.26 per person
21. Poland $0.03 per person

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/dis ... nd_pub_cap

BainbridgeShred · Post by **BainbridgeShred** » 07 Jan 2005 09:00

I'm saying that because the US responce is nowhere near that of many other countries - despite being the richest country in the world - and because the attitude seems to be one of - "we don't have to help so we won't" - people have been using words like "stingy" "greedy" and "selfish" when talking about your country - I'm talking about international journalists and political figures.

And I would agree with you, the US should be giving much more aid. Doesn't change the fact that we have no real obligation to outside of the rhetoric of party politics.