If I said I hit `crispy whirr`...

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 12 Jan 2005 23:22

I think he wants you to stomp the whirl down then do the next whirl by official 1997 standards.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 13 Jan 2005 05:43

I instantly thought stepping whirl. I can understand the logic of blazing same whirl - but personally I would think that if somebody said they hit crispy whirr - they'd be talking about the easiest of the three. If I hit blazing same whirl - I'd probably call it that - because it would be harder and I wouldn't want people to be confused. When in doubt - I always assume the person is talking about the easiest move.

wooah - check my post count

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 13 Jan 2005 05:56

Eric is right
Crispy Whirr must have two whirling dexes, so stepping is not right
Barraging ss Clip has uptime dexes - it's nothing crispy.

So crispy Whirr is
Whirling ss Whirl
or
Whirling ss muted Whirl (with first dex uptime)

I'd prefer Whirling ss Whirl

PS. There isn't "Blazing ss"

Tuukka · Post by **Tuukka** » 13 Jan 2005 06:06

I think that it is stepping whirl or whirling ss whirl. As Jon said, there must be plant. Like stepping op clipper is crispy drifter. Muted version isn't.

But still they invented the whole term back -97. I had not heard of footbag back then. So if then say it's only stepping whirl, not whirling same whirl (with plant between dexes), then so be it.

dazza · Post by **dazza** » 13 Jan 2005 06:27

Since i'm wearing my off topic t shirt again i might aswell ask,
what is a "crispy" eggbeater ?
thanx in advance

setman · Post by **setman** » 13 Jan 2005 06:39

CRISPY EGGBEATER = ATOMIC LEGOVER

Anz · Post by **Anz** » 13 Jan 2005 06:51

Crispy Eggbeater = Leggy Atomic Legover
(Hippy Atomic Legover = Eggplant)

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 13 Jan 2005 11:22

I would have thought you hit stepping whirl if you said crispy whirr, but I was around when the terms were coined, so stepping whirl is the first thing that comes to mind.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 13 Jan 2005 11:39

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 13 Jan 2005 13:04

You are all being silly with your restrictive definitions.

I think that whirling muted same whirl, whirling (with plant) same whirl and stepping whirl are all ways of doing the move crispy in a logical sense.

Jon, when I said about making one part uptime and one part downtime I was just describing the motions of this trick, I think you thought I was defining that as what crispy is.

I had understood crispy as making a distinction between the components of an otherwise mostly fluid single action. Like crispy torque, which I think most people agree to be stepping far osis. It has the same jobs notation but the peak symbol (>>) has been moved over. (I really *really* find >> usefull when describing tricks)

So a crispy whirr would be any way for you to separate *crisply* the two dexterities. By thaaaat definition they all fit, though both the whirling same whirl options still fit more closely.

Requiring that the ONLY kinds of tricks that can be called crispy are ones that have a plant leaves you with a big pile of undefined tricks, why not lump them in too since they make sense anyways?

I know I wasn't around when the term was coined, but I also don't think that matters. Perhaps some fresh eyes are helpful in seeing silly restrictive logic.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 13 Jan 2005 13:07

Jeremy wrote:I instantly thought stepping whirl. I can understand the logic of blazing same whirl - but personally I would think that if somebody said they hit crispy whirr - they'd be talking about the easiest of the three. If I hit blazing same whirl - I'd probably call it that - because it would be harder and I wouldn't want people to be confused. When in doubt - I always assume the person is talking about the easiest move.

wooah - check my post count

Ditto.

Especially with crispy, as it was much more often than not the easiest way to hit the trick.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 13 Jan 2005 13:13

ptaku · Post by **ptaku** » 14 Jan 2005 05:28

For me Crispy Whirr is Whirling ss Whirl, and Stepping ss Whirl. Same with Eggbeaters: Atomic Legover (Eggplant) & Leggy Atomic Legover both are Crispy Eggbeater.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 14 Jan 2005 09:40

My honor has been besmirched. I demand satisfaction. I demand a duel!

But first, my rebuttal (huh huh, huh huh, he said "butt").

I can agree that a whirling (plant) same whirl certainly seems crispy. Fine. Whirling same whirl with a plant is also crispy.

shreddaily said:

However, sorry to sound like a little brat, but SCREW the original definition. The def should be, a move seperated into two components, usualy uptime and downtime, when it could otherwise be performed in one fluent motion.
Thus whirling>plant>whirl sounds like a crispy whirr to me. But I'm just a newb

and wolfpac444 reiterated with:

Fine, Jon ;-] When ever people on the board misinterpret "CRIPSY" and "ORIGINAL", they are actually talking about "ÇRISPY" and "ÖRIGINAL" but were to lazy to write the nonstandard characters.

But, seriously, (as Nate just said as I was writing), it is silly to use restrictive definitions, when their generalizations are so much more applicable and productive. Gyro falls into this category.

I think Tuuukkka best devined my meaning when he said:

I think that it is stepping whirl or whirling ss whirl. As Jon said, there must be plant. Like stepping op clipper is crispy drifter. Muted version isn't.

What I meant by being annoyed with "the mis-use of Crispy" was how people refer to anything with an uptime dex as crispy. Its not. As I said, there must be a sharp plant.

I could be wrong here, but I get the feeling that we are actually all pretty much in agreement on this.

Still, there is another interesting issue that has come up, and I must answer that too: this attitude of

SCREW the original definition.

and

it is silly to use restrictive definitions, when their generalizations are so much more applicable and productive. Gyro falls into this category.

I don't like what I'm hearing. Maybe it doesn't matter at all, and I shouldn't let it bother me. This game would still be cool if there were no terms and definitions at all (The first rule of footbag is you do not talk about footbag! The second rule of footbag is...)
But I think everybody here likes our terms and our lingo, so this is relavant to us, and I say YOU CAN'T JUST DO THAT!. These are not just your terms to play with as you will. They mean something also to other people who use them, and to those who coined them. I'd also like to use gyro in a broader sense, ditching the who no-plant-while thing, since it doesn't even get a symposium ADD or anything, but its not my place to decide the definition of gyro (and not just 'cause I suck at them so badly). Hell, I'd like to rename lots of stuff, including Dragon (the name is just too ostentatious and pretentious for what amounts to a very little move, really. It would be like calling a clipper stall a "Tiger stall" instead, if you catch my drift.) And even though I do them more than anyone else, its simply not my choice to make (I didn't invent or name the cross-body outside stall), and that's that. Like, Blurriest and Blurrier aren't even "blurry" but we simply have to live with it.

Besides, it sets a bad precedent. The attitude of "Well, I hadn't even heard of footbag way back in '97, so I don't have to care about those rules" could be applied to you after a while. See how you feel about it in 2012 when people start renaming stuff you invented.

Oh, and Nate, you're a brat, newbie. And so are you, Mike!

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 14 Jan 2005 09:53

Wait, why is this debate even happening? Do people even say crispy anymore? I thought it was left behind, what with all the specificity that today's level of play calls for.

I'd hazard to say that there is a difference between Whirr and Mute Whirling ss Whirl, and all it is is a slight pause. The fact that the nomenclature exists for notating such a minute difference is the exact REASON that "Crispy" should be left behind.

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 14 Jan 2005 10:48

qphox wrote: I'd hazard to say that there is a difference between Whirr and Mute Whirling ss Whirl, and all it is is a slight pause.

I'd say the same thing about ripstein, and the trick Vasek hits that everyone calls a ripstein.

FlexThis · Post by **FlexThis** » 14 Jan 2005 12:30

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 14 Jan 2005 12:39

For all the youngster who weren't been playing back in the day, after the day way back when, and probably don't remember when the Colonel only had one type of chicken.

crispy vs original was a play on words when KFC was Kentucky Fried Chicken, and not Kitchen Fresh Crap. There was a new style in town, Crispy fried chicken or the original recipe.

Crispy was a way to seperate the trick by doing part of it quickly on what seems to be refered to as uptime these days, and the other part was on the downtime. This made the trick significanlty easier as it was a set followed by an easier trick instead of a multidex trick.

Crispy almost always had a plant,because it was easier to plant, although I don't recall that being an absolute requirement for a trick to be called crispy. I would consider atomic ss-butterfly to be a crispy paradon regardless if the trick had a plant after the first dex or not.

FlexThis wrote: The term dyno has been misused for years

Wasn't dyno half spinning reverse swirl back in the day ?

shreddaily · Post by **shreddaily** » 15 Jan 2005 17:49

Outsider wrote:Oh, and Nate, you're a brat, newbie.

glad you cleared that part of the discussion up

but what about this:

Outsider wrote: the real definition of "CRISPY" was not simply an uptime component when a downtime was the norm. Rather, it was a stepping set when a mirage was the usual.... If it doesn't have a stepping set and its associated plant, then theres nothing crispy about it.

If this is the case, atomic legover is not crispy eggbeater, surging clipper is not crispy vortex, and pdx tap down is not crispy barfly. All of those moves have "the same jobs" and are the "set>plant>bail"(cripsy) form of a "done in one motion"(original recipe) move.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 15 Jan 2005 21:20

Actually, Brat, I rather liked where you were coming from with:

SOoooooo.... was the original intention of crispy stepping versus miraging, or was it that those were the only practical/applicable moves at the time???

I find that acceptable.

Like I said, I think Tuukka summed it all up nicely with:

there must be plant. Like stepping op clipper is crispy drifter. Muted version isn't.

But I thought I'd already made myself clear about this when I said:

I can agree that a whirling (plant) same whirl certainly seems crispy. Fine. Whirling same whirl with a plant is also crispy.

and:

What I meant by being annoyed with "the mis-use of Crispy" was how people refer to anything with an uptime dex as crispy. Its not. As I said, there must be a sharp plant.

Now, how much more clear do you want me to make myself?

brat...

modified

If I said I hit `crispy whirr`...

...would you assume I meant:

Re: If I said I hit `crispy whirr`...