Freestyle Footbag?

[Chris Hanratty]

I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm wondering how we can call this sport freestyle footbag when there is so much pressure to eliminate toe stalls (along with other 1 add delays) and to go tiltless, guiltless, etc.?

[crazydwarf]

I imagine we call it that because it so much resembles a dance, and there arn't really any rules as compared to most normal sports such as basketball... Like there aren't even any fouls or anything in footbag...

[LameR]

I imagine we call it that because it so much resembles a dance, and there arn't really any rules as compared to most normal sports such as basketball... Like there aren't even any fouls or anything in footbag...

That would be accurate if you were comparing it to major sports, but the same could be said about golf (which actually is semi-major in my mind), skateboarding, and other sports. There are a ton of sports that don't require fouls.

Chris has a good point though, it's odd that doing lower add moves that may be cooler looking or more creative are somewhat looked down upon.

[sampotter]

People play for different reasons. There is absolutely nothing forcing you to do whatever everyone else is doing. However, everyone else does it for a reason. My personal attraction to the way footbag is played is that by taking out the lower add tricks your game tends to be harder and look better. That isn't always the rule of thumb, but it's much more interesting for most people to watch a person hit a tiltless string than a string filled with toe stalls and inside stalls. Further, it's tends to be more interesting to watch someone hit a guiltless string over a tiltless, and genuine over guiltless... I think the problem presents itself in the way adds represent difficulty. Since they don't represent difficulty very well (though, they DO represent it to a degree), people get hung up on leaving out the bubbas and far pick ups and making sure to replace it with a paradox mirage or butterfly that they neglect adding style to their game.

Sure, you could join a circle and hack, but you wouldn't really be playing our game, would you? You can say that it's "freestyle" and consequentially everyone should be allowed to do whatever they want, and you would be right, but only to a certain extent. I see this as more of a technical sport that looks really cool than freeform expression, but maybe that's just me. Then again, I guess I call it footbag and not footbag freestyle.

[BainbridgeShred]

I imagine we call it that because it so much resembles a dance

It's funny how many people that I show it to say this.

[Outsider]

Chris said:

there is so much pressure to eliminate toe stalls (along with other 1 add delays) and to go tiltless, guiltless,

Ignore it, man. There is no pressure. When somebody passes you the bag, it is your turn to do whatever you want with it. What other people would like you to do with the bag is irrelevant.

I do hear what you're saying, though, and I'd say that for one thing, the pressure can come from a desire to be competitive in the sport (in a formal and informal sense, I guess). In those ways, though, the pressure is only from within. Nobody necessarily expects it from you that you must play this game competitively, so if you aren't competing with anyone, then there is no need to put pressure on yourself to out-do the other freestylers. You are free to do whatever tricks you want to do, regardless of how someone might compare your tricks to anyone else's.

Another reason we put pressure on ourselves is because it drives us to become better (at least, in one conveniently messurable way), and getting better at what you are doing is one of the best parts of doing it. I think I quit skiing because after 15 years of it I simply wasn't getting any better at it, so part of what made it exciting was gone (I simply was not willing to risk life and limb in order to be better at skiing, which was probably the next step. I decided that wasn't worth it, and besides, it was around then that I found footbag). If you like the feeling of improving at footbag (by whatever means you decide to measure your improvements) than you should consider that this is part of what makes you play it at all.
When you stop improving at footbag, it could begin to feel boring. If you enjoy it and want continue to enjoy it, you've got to keep finding ways to advance your game in some fashion (there ARE lots of different ways to improve at footbag besides increasing your average difficulty).

One little story about competition and ditching toe stalls and then I'm done. In 1998 I entered my first two competitions. I'm pretty sure I took last place in intermediate freestyle in Dallas at the Southern Regionals (though I did win intermediate timed consecutives, with a score that was actualy a bit higher than the winner of open timed consecs ; ) Later that year I took lots of time to work my routine, and at Funtastiks I won intermediate freestyle. I hit long and varied tiltless strings, I hit my flapper stalls and a good series of dragons. I can't remember what else, really. Probably some simple guiltless combos of butterflies and osis and torque. Chewbacca. Anyway, if I recall correctly, I went early in the pool and played way better than the previous day and felt pretty good about my chances of winning. But Melissa Schneider went after me, and I thought her performance was REALLY good. I remember getting just a slight queasy feeling watching her and thinking "Shit, I thought I had this wrapped up tight, but she's out there right now killing me." Her variety and difficulty (as measured by ADDs, of course) were both way less than mine, and I'm sure that she did more toe stalls than any other trick by far. But she had real rhythm, a real performance, and she looked good doing, and looked like she was enjoying it. Watching her I was sure she was going to beat me. The judges didn't see it that way, and no video exists (of neither me nor Mel, nor the three dropless routines in a row in open freestyle), and I'll never really feel sure about winning, 'cause lots of smoothly dancing toe stalls seemed a little bit better to me that day than lots of stompy shaky sloppy dexy stally dragony stuff.

[sampotter]

A good example of someone who looks good doing random tricks that don't adhere to our standard: Matt Emmings! Super smooth.

[C-Fan]

Watching her I was sure she was going to beat me. The judges didn't see it that way, and no video exists (of neither me nor Mel, nor the three dropless routines in a row in open freestyle), and I'll never really feel sure about winning, 'cause lots of smoothly dancing toe stalls seemed a little bit better to me that day than lots of stompy shaky sloppy dexy stally dragony stuff.

Yeah, I agree with Jon. Don`t let anybody judge you or pressure you into changing your game. You should play footbag for yourself, and do so as freely as you want.

This raises the strange paradox for me about competing. If I don`t recognize the right/point of other players to judge my shred level (BAP, for example), then why should I submit to player judgment in routines?

Personally, I thought the judging was good at Worlds 03, so when people asked me how I placed, I could tell them `11th` and feel good about it, since I felt it was roughly accurate in terms of my performance. But this year when people ask me, I don`t know what to tell them, since the judging was so inconsistent. How can I be 16th, when neither of my routines was as good as Nate Linscott`s, who placed like 42nd? Conversely, I also thought some people who placed higher than me had worse routines than mine. What I`m trying to get at, and what I think Jon was too, is that other people`s opinions of your game often don`t matter, and shouldn`t affect how you play your game.

Go out there and have fun. As long as you aren`t boring everybody by self-serving 10 times in a row, as long as you are having fun, do your thing. Keep doing you.

[Chris Hanratty]

Thanks a lot for the replies from everyone, well thought posts. I understand what everyone is saying as well. I'm still a tiltless player, and don't use 1 adds to bail, I use them every once and a while for something fun and different to do. So my question didn't exactly apply to me completely, it was just a general question. I hope this thread might help some newcomers that have their own style that may not be widely encouraged by the rest of the community.

Also, I agree ken. The judging was a bit off.

[footbinc]

Maybe its called Freestyle cause of the routine bit, its the same with figure skating... Hmmm makes me wonder about all you "freestylers"....

Play Net.

Ben

[JoshMan01]

I don't think there is any pressure when you get the bag. When I'm with other people I just want them to do well and to do their best, hit some new tricks and what not. I've never cared if it was was tiltless er what.