.ORG/forum

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 20 Feb 2005 10:00

Hey folks, a few thoughts I've had over the past few days. The .ORG forum is more or less a wasteland. This suits me fine, because I already had a forum that met all of my needs before .ORG/forum was created. We all did.

So, all is well and good for US, but this is a huge problem for brand new players. How many of us were introduced to footbag either directly through .ORG, or by someone who was? I'd say it's probably close on 90%. Now, how many of us went through our footbag 'childhoods' without ever asking some silly questions? (I distinctly remember believing that a toe > same side mirage was a mirage, and that a toe > op mirage was a paradox mirage).

Back when I first became interested in the sport, a little before modified was created, and long before .ORG/forum was created, the most obvious way to get an answer to a question was to send off an email to a player. So I did. I sent three or four emails to Eric Wulf when I was starting out (his scorpian's tail was my favorite move demonstration in the .ORG freestyle section), and each time he responded, answering my questions in full, and offering encouragement. This was a huge deal for me. This guy who did this impossable thing on a little video clip, who lived God knows where, and would probably never ever see me (I actually did come face to face with Eric at worlds 2003 in Prague, I sold him a bottle of water. He and Carol introduced themselves, I shook their hands, but I was too shy to strike up a conversation), took a few minutes out of his day to help me out with questions that were completely obvious to him.

Back to the point. When I started, the most natural way to reach out for help was to send an email to a player who you'd seen in a clip, and the responce was fantastic. Nowadays, the most natural way to reach out for help is to make a post on .ORG/forum, and the responce is nil. This is hurting us all. We're actually WORSE OFF than we were three years ago in terms of harbouring new interest in the sport. That's unacceptable.

I'm not at all suggesting that the modified community should switch over to .ORG/forum. But to all the experienced and knowledgable baggers out there please, PLEASE don't let the 'Tips, Advice, Help' section of .ORG/forum become useless. These potential players are just looking for a bit of support and acknowledgement, and the sense of community that we all love. Is it really such a chore to answer the same questions over and over again, when you realise that this is how each of us began our love of the game?

LameR · Post by **LameR** » 20 Feb 2005 12:48

I vote that .org provides a link to modified, then again, it may already do that. I dunno, I hardly ever go there.

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 20 Feb 2005 12:53

way ahead of you colin....I did notice how it was slightly less active than modified....nevertheless, I still did join the forum...it's not too bad.....kinda like a modified in the middle of .org. we should double up though. instead of just modified, I kinda agree with colin.......................I'm doing both forums.....let's do something to get footbag more spread out....not just 'localized' in one single forum........

Just call me hagesy · Post by **Just call me hagesy** » 20 Feb 2005 13:26

The way I got into footbag was through footbag.org. I still go to footbag.org, but not as much as i probably should. It just kind of shits me that the same questions are asked all the time. perhaps when a new player signs up for footbag.org, more info about the search function could be given. Thus the same questions every day would be avoided.

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 20 Feb 2005 14:18

they have mods there right? If they do, they should filter out crap topics that are the seventh repeat of the same question......

Tee H See · Post by **Tee H See** » 20 Feb 2005 17:23

why don't they just redirect those forums to modified? Cause nothing is happening on them and it seems like this is a dead sport if you are a n00b.

mosher · Post by **mosher** » 20 Feb 2005 17:32

I think this is a pretty important topic that I have no idea how to deal with.

The .org forums are a wasteland, perhaps what is needed is a far more extensive FAQ section. I mean.. we know all the questions that get asked, right?

Or perhaps modified should just replace the .org forums. Fuck, this is such a stupid issue that could be resolved in two seocnds.

It's not even like we have flipsider competing for popularity right now either.

All of this could be fixed if modified was killed and we all just started up fresh at .org.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 20 Feb 2005 21:32

LittleBoy footbag wrote:they have mods there right? If they do, they should filter out crap topics that are the seventh repeat of the same question......

That's not the right attitude. I'm sure that Eric Wulf had heard the same questions that I gave him a million times before, but he thought that it was worth his time to help a genuinely interested newbie out, instead of telling me to use the search function, or simply ignoring me. If it weren't for his kind responces, I don't know if I ever would have gotten into footbag.

Anyways, I've decided that the best that I can do for the situation is simply to do my best to answer all the questions that are posted, and to be as good about it as I can. I always felt the same way about the repeating topics on the forums, but I realise that the repeating topics are a direct indicator of footbag growth, but only if the questions are dealt with nicely.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 20 Feb 2005 22:00

LittleBoy footbag wrote:they have mods there right? If they do, they should filter out crap topics that are the seventh repeat of the same question......

Yes they have mods - the mods are Allan Haggett, Steve Goldberg, Moglum and myself (and maybe still Joachen Bauyer)

I can only speak for myself to say that I don't check there very often - mainly because I've been travelling around a lot and don't have time to moderate any forums at the moment (although I'm sure that will change).

I totally agree that it makes much more sense if everybody posted there - unfortuantly many people have encouraged such a move in the past and it is clear that the majority of people disagree and are much happier to post on this forum.

A lot of people used to complain that Steve and Allan were too forcefull in their moderating, however for almost a year now they haven't been doing any modding at all - and now people are complaining that they don't do enough.

Really there is only one solution if you want people to post at .org - go post there yourself and stop posting here. People will go to the forum with the most posts...

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 21 Feb 2005 06:34

Newf wrote:
LittleBoy footbag wrote:they have mods there right? If they do, they should filter out crap topics that are the seventh repeat of the same question......
That's not the right attitude. I'm sure that Eric Wulf had heard the same questions that I gave him a million times before, but he thought that it was worth his time to help a genuinely interested newbie out, instead of telling me to use the search function, or simply ignoring me. If it weren't for his kind responces, I don't know if I ever would have gotten into footbag.

Anyways, I've decided that the best that I can do for the situation is simply to do my best to answer all the questions that are posted, and to be as good about it as I can. I always felt the same way about the repeating topics on the forums, but I realise that the repeating topics are a direct indicator of footbag growth, but only if the questions are dealt with nicely.

yeah.......but it'd be nice if a new kicker at least looekd about three more topics down. I help out as much as possible like you do but I just get fed up too fast I guess.....and what yu said about footbag growth is really true...........thanks for clearing that up

brian relly · Post by **brian relly** » 21 Feb 2005 07:19

Everyone used to be one of those kids. Even you, man.

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 21 Feb 2005 07:21

yeah....i guess I was being hypocritical about what I posted to most newbies.........my bad......

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 21 Feb 2005 15:23

Continuing on my quest to be more helpful to newbs, I see that a few more Modified regulars have pitched in. Thanks guys, good work.

We can all feel good about ourselves when Tim Shan, Dave Ehlert, Evan Laput and Bryce Praught start busting guiltless.

Then we can demand a cut when one of the little bastards lands an endorcement deal with Nike.

Booyah.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 21 Feb 2005 16:51

good example is Nick Landes, this kid is good, he hit fairy ss barroque at SJFF, and has anyone heard of him? He is on .org forum. There are many kids just like him that no one knows of and are good or could possibly become better with some recoginition.

I personally from now on will go to footbag.org forum everyday and answer at least one question. Thats my goal

lightningbolt · Post by **lightningbolt** » 21 Feb 2005 17:33

I been meaning to go anwers some post since you posted this but I been lazy. No longer so. I'm going there right now and by golly every post that I can anwers gonna get a damn anwers.

I never felt at home on .org. Modified so much more welcoming and I don't know just better.

Actually, I found out about footbag through flipsider. Footbag.org was to big and scary for me.

DoctorJay · Post by **DoctorJay** » 22 Feb 2005 05:04

I had lots of thoughts about this stuff recently...

I quit checking new posts on org , because I had a lack of time and wanted to talk to those people who I will probably meet on tournaments as well, so I changed to modified because the entertainment/ community/ number of new posts was better.

When I was active as a moderator there were many newbies on the board...
I guess I was able to help some of them and this had made me happy each time I got a reply of this person. Thanks for that feeling!

I spent lots of time to edit posts and telling people that they should pay a little bit of attention to their spelling- it was quite clear that if I was able to detect their grammatical mistakes , the reason for them would have been a lack of rereading/ using the preview button.

Modified has a great community but it has an enormous disadvantage to the sport of footbag- the direct way between finding footbag on org and getting direct access to the whole community.

Try to think this to its end - the best solution would be that all people would stop posting here and switch to org ( or post on both boards)- combine the communities and create the one and only world wide footbag community .

I do not know what "modified"( the domain) is, but ask yourself, how long did it take for you to find it after your first contact with footbag.

Moreover there was a summer clean up - I guess on org this wouldn't be possible and such clean ups are not good because it is a loss of knowledge.
I feel really comfortable to trust in Steve Goldberg and his vision of footbag and supporting him and the IFPA and their ideas of footbag future- think of how far footbag would have been without him/ them.

There was one issue which was mentioned by the hardcore modifiers: "the underground" factor of modified- yeah it is cool to be underground in a mini sport like footbag ( yeah underground in the most popular footbag forum worldwide

!)

There are so many players which are isolated to tips from really expierenced players in this sport-à, not good - why ? because modified is so underground

I guess the switch to org is a problem because several people do it from time to time and recognize that there are not so many new posts as on modified and switch back

In my opinion there are several ways to go :
1.shut down modified by an admin or anyone who is able to do that
( I do not support this kind of dictation!)
2. Set a specific time for the big switch where all people who think it is worth to do that make one post on org in a specific thread( i.e:" Modified changers / All boards viewers" so we will see how many members think it is worth a switch)
3. Put the blogs over to org so everybody will read about his blog and maybe some others and then will probably check the new posts of other sections of the board as well.
4. Replace the whole database to org ( I guess that is not possible because it is inappropraite to the org community and it is a loss of knowledge if you replace the org database)
5. Combine the databases (i.e. tricks section > in tips advice help...)
I do not know if this is technically possible , but I doubt.

In my opinion option 2 and 3 ( implement footblogs over there and paste your blog in your thread) is the way to go . Option 3 could be done later anyway, so option 2 would be a good start as well.

Thanks for making myself wondering about my wrong decision to go the easy way by reducing my posts on org to almost zero and changing to the unknown community --- it would be better to get the community to the known place I guess.

Our sport ( better way of life) is too small to have such a split --- there are only a few thousand shredders ( remeber the adidas online petition --- about 300 signs???) in the whole world - please compare this to other sports - we have a really tight internet presence ( compared to other sports) but it could be even better by combining the forums.

Ellis did a great thing by closing his forum, although it was a loss of money for him because his members would probably bought his products- thanks for this step.

I had only one excuse for my switch to modified--- I thought I was the only person who tried to help as many people as possible and bring the boards together but I thought I was the only one - alone !

Thanks for starting this thread and showing me that there are other people who think the same way as me in whole or in part.

I will start a thread in the org forum for modified members who will switch/ browse the org forum regularly, so the number of users will be comprehensible .

Of course the best way would be to check both boards but this cost much time so I cannot do this - but I will answer a minimum of one question per day on org - this is on my to do list for every day from now on .

See you on footbag.org too
http://www.footbag.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 3755#13755

lightningbolt · Post by **lightningbolt** » 23 Feb 2005 20:18

Thanks for that post. It was very eye opening,

But I think it might be easier instead of trying to move modified posters to .ORG. It might be more logical to have a link ot Modified on the .org forum. I can understand why Steve might not want to do this; I tottaly understand thoes reasons too. It just seems like it would be less hassle and you would retain all the modified posters. Just a thought.

Post by **Allan** » 24 Feb 2005 16:47

While it may not be in the most visible place, there is a link to modified on .org -

http://www.footbag.org/links/list

It's near the bottom only because newer links are put down there - it should probably be placed higher, but it's not too important.

Someone could pretty easily post a thread there discussing this forum as well.

Personally, I'd love to see more people from here become regular posters over there, but really, I don't really see much wrong with having two or even more forums.... but I've stated and re-stated my thoughts on this numerous times, so I'll not waste anyones time.

Some of the upcoming changes and feature additions to Footbag Worldwide (footbag.org) will also make the site far more popular - many of you will start to live on the site like you do here for reasons other than the discussion

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 24 Feb 2005 18:12

{mutter}
You guys don't always have to work on .ORG under the cover of darkness. The lack of communication hurts us all.
{/mutter}

I'm in the same boat as Allan though, in that I don't really care if there are multiple forums. We just need to make sure that we're embracing the newbs, and never cold-shouldering them, be that on an internet forum, or at the park, or *gasp* on an internet forum that you don't use often.

Embrace the newbs. Then you and they may rule the galaxy with an iron foot. We will grow together to become more powerful than we could possibly imagine.

Oh god, I'm so overtired.

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 24 Feb 2005 18:17

yeah...... get some sleep