Inevitability of non-existence

james · Post by **james** » 18 Feb 2005 22:44

Simple, who accepts and who doesn't?

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 19 Feb 2005 02:23

james wrote:Simple, who accepts and who doesn't?

Do you mean that the world isn't going to exist someday or that I as an individual will not exist one day?

I believe that when I die my life will be over and I will be dead- meaning that I won't exist anymore (and I'll ignore the "you live on in the hearts of people who loved you" stuff because it's not relevant... assuming that this was even what you meant in the first place.) So I accept the inevitability of non-existence.

"It's no accident that the church and the graveyard stand side by side. The city of the dead sleeps encircled by the city of the living."
_______________________
Emily Kulczyk

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 19 Feb 2005 07:53

Starlight asked Non-Entity "Master, do you exist, or do you not exist?"
He got no reply to his question, however...

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 19 Feb 2005 07:58

i think EVERYTHING is inevitably going to pass from THIS world. as in, everything. i mean, i guess thats obvious, and not really in question. science knows that the sun will die out eventually, or global warming will get us before that, or something like that. but, i dont believe the world is going to end in our lifetimes. whether or not there is life after our death in this world...yes, i believe there is. im assuming that was the original question...im still not positive if that is what is being asked...

james · Post by **james** » 19 Feb 2005 10:35

The question is do you accept the fact that you have an eternity of nothingness waiting for you?
I was wondering how many people did. I was in a christian chat room and it was highly amusing.

The reason that there cannot be an afterlife is because infinite is nothingness and existence neccessarily implies non-existence. And without afterlife there's no reason for a god, not that it matters anyway, we all do what we want regardless of what we think we know.

HighDemonslayer · Post by **HighDemonslayer** » 03 Mar 2005 01:19

Pascal's Wager

Seath · Post by **Seath** » 03 Mar 2005 10:44

HighDemonslayer wrote:Pascal's Wager

live like there is a god? if there isn't you didn't loose too much but if there is then you cash out.. right?

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 03 Mar 2005 11:39

you have no reason to assume eternity is nothingness...the only eternity you know so far is the span of your life, and there has never been nothingness as far as you can tell. so with that as evidence, you cannot assume nothingness even exists, or what its like.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 03 Mar 2005 16:19

james wrote:The question is do you accept the fact that you have an eternity of nothingness waiting for you?

The reason that there cannot be an afterlife is because infinite is nothingness and existence necessarily implies non-existence. And without afterlife there's no reason for a god, not that it matters anyway, we all do what we want regardless of what we think we know.

You're assuming that nothing=nothingness=your "soul" is just chillin' in space for all eternity, right? It's just as realistic to think that your "soul" will be chillin' in heaven or someplace. I don't get why you make the assumption that after you die you still exist at all if "existence necessarily implies non-existence." Your soul being in some sort of limbo isn't non-existence. Not existing would be like: after a shrub dies, it is dead. After my cat is dead, it will be dead and no longer exist. By that same logic, if it's not faulty, wouldn't you think that people not existing anymore (being alive) would suggest them just being dead, and not floating somewhere forever?

___________________
Emily Kulczyk

"Fear not death, for the sooner we die the longer we shall be immortal." --Benjamin Franklin"

crazydwarf · Post by **crazydwarf** » 03 Mar 2005 17:09

Not too sure what you mean moxie, but how do you know what happens to a cat after it dies

and on to the real issue...

The reason that there cannot be an afterlife is because infinite is nothingness and existence neccessarily implies non-existence

Not too sure if this is a beliefe shared by scientists or just your opinion, but since it seems like it could very easily be true I'll take it as truth. In that case even if eternity is nothingness that doesn't mean we would be there in that nothingness. For instance we could relive one moment but have it drawn out forever. Or relive our whole lives over and over in an infinite loop always going through the same time period but doing things differently. Or be infinitly reincarnated over and over again until this universe ends and then be reincarnated in a new universe. Or maybe when we die it's really like waking up and when we go to sleep again we live a whole other life from start to finish. Whenever I try and think about simply not being there I can never get my head around it. I always think like, "wow that'd be really boring, oh wait I wouldn't be there so it wouldn't be..." I can't imagine that I will ever simply be gone... hope that makes sense.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » 03 Mar 2005 17:32

crazydwarf wrote:Not too sure what you mean moxie, but how do you know what happens to a cat after it dies

Sorry for being confusing

My point is that if you (maybe this is to slapdash21) don't believe that there's an after life (and by that I think I pretty much mean Heaven or reincarnation), what makes you think that you'll still exist enough to be anywhere for all eternity. I don't get that jump, but maybe I'm missing something obvious.

crazydwarf wrote:Whenever I try and think about simply not being there I can never get my head around it. I always think like, "wow that'd be really boring, oh wait I wouldn't be there so it wouldn't be..." I can't imagine that I will ever simply be gone...

Do you think that's why some people have religion to begin with? Because they don't want to imagine not existing in some form?

_______________
Emily Kulczyk

"I would rather live and love where death is king than have eternal life where love is not." --Robert G. Ingersoll

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 03 Mar 2005 17:51

it's really something confusing as crap.

here I'll try to think out loud.....or type without much of thought.

To Dustin, have you ever read The Way of the Peaceful Warrior? It's somewhat similar to what this discussion's about. In fact, one scene in the book is when the character remembers a tale told to him:

it goes something like this:

A man slept and dreamt that he was a butterfly. Soon afte,r he awoke. after some thought, the man came to a question, "Am I a man that is living and has just dreamt that he was a butterfly or am I a butterfly that, right now, is dreaming that I am a man?

Or maybe when we die it's really like waking up and when we go to sleep again we live a whole other life from start to finish.

anyways, it's something that makes my blood hurt......A LOT. however, I am Christian and my belief is that there is life after death. Others may belive literal life after death via reincarnation. OTHERS may just belive that they just die and that's it..........turn in life's over......however, that's relaly all coming straight out of my mind....

and on to more confusing stuff for me:

when Emily's cat dies, is she trying to tel lus that her cat's literal body (physically) would be floating aorund forever or her consciousness?

gaaahh........damn and I have a test tomorrow....i can't think now. better get tylenol.

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 03 Mar 2005 19:19

moxie,
first of all, i do believe in an afterlife. in fact, thats the very point of this debate...i mean, obviously if there is no afterlife, that is the self-definition of non-existence. but personally, a lack of afterlife would be a numbing idea, if i believed it. if there is no afterlife, no eternal justice, and no point to life, i would probably just freak out, kill people, or party and do drugs 24/7. now, i realize that most people view this as the very reason so-called "misguided" people believe what i do, about the existence of an afterlife. as in, people only believe it because the alternative is too frightening to conceive. fortunatly, that isnt the only reason i believe. as dustin points out, the idea of non-existence IS a lot to get your head around, though thats another reason that implies the thinker is just frightened by the possibilty of nothingness and no ultimate justice and judgment. long story short, of course, there is no solid PROOF in either direction about life after death, and it all comes down to opinion, so, even naming this topic 'the INEVITABILITY of non-existence' isnt a fair statement to make. since no one currently in this conversation has died yet, no one can say what will happen after death, to cats, plants, OR humans.

crazydwarf · Post by **crazydwarf** » 03 Mar 2005 19:53

since no one currently in this conversation has died yet

Wow good point seriously. My main point in that I can't rap my head around infinty is that I don't think we as humans can really understand what it means so maybe we can't know what it is.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 03 Mar 2005 20:12

I "was" protestant for quite some time. I was raised with the Church being a big part of my life, but I rejected a lot of it at an early age. I didn't see the sense in chanting a prayer someone else wrote for me, I disagreed with some of the traditional views of the older church-goers, I recognized the hypocrisy in some members of the community...eventually a bad confirmation class put me over the edge, and I grew sick and tired of Religion entirely. I stopped going despite my Mother's pleas, and I stopped praying. I never really meant it or believed anyone was listening when I prayed anyway...

Presently, I believe that once we're dead, that's it. There's no pearly gates, no eternal damnation, no second life as a raccoon. That said, there are still reasons to lead a "good" life.

I don't like misery, regardless of the degree, and regardless of who is experiencing it. I know how it feels, and don't want others to feel it, so I avoid doing things that would cause anyone to feel it. There's not much more to it than that.

It's not just because the Golden Rule says so.

full nelson · Post by **full nelson** » 03 Mar 2005 21:36

When I try to imagine dying, I always think of when I've been put under anesthesia. They stick the needle into your IV and you really have no idea how many seconds you have until you're gone, but it happens. To my mind, I wake up, literally, a split second after the last thought I had. That void of time lost to my memory is what I consider death. It's just nothing.

The reason to live a good life, if you don't believe in religion, is because it's the only one you've got. So make the most of it.

habitat · Post by **habitat** » 03 Mar 2005 22:26

full nelson wrote:When I try to imagine dying, I always think of when I've been put under anesthesia. They stick the needle into your IV and you really have no idea how many seconds you have until you're gone, but it happens. To my mind, I wake up, literally, a split second after the last thought I had. That void of time lost to my memory is what I consider death. It's just nothing.

Thats exactly how I feel, you just slip into that space, much like sleeping, where you are "nothing"

And do dreams somehow relate to afterlife/alterlife/life?

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 04 Mar 2005 11:49

full nelson wrote:The reason to live a good life, if you don't believe in religion, is because it's the only one you've got. So make the most of it.

oh god, that is the worst argument for living a good life i have ever heard. for some people 'making the most of life' would mean getting rich by whatever means necessary, doing huge amounts of drugs, having sex with anything that moves, and doing whatever the fuck you feel like to anyone. as in, it wouldnt be 'living a good life' it would be having a FUN life, which isnt the same as good.
besides...that sounds like corny-song lyrics.
and qphox...thats an admirable attitude. not everyone shares it. if they did, there would be no prisons...i dont think 'making other people happy' is motivation enough to convince most of the world to stop hurting each other.

LittleBoy footbag · Post by **LittleBoy footbag** » 04 Mar 2005 12:12

well better safe than sorry.......has anyone here ever been unconscious? Then maybe that would help. If one's consciousness was still capable while their physical body was knocked out cold, then maybe that's what death is.....just finally ejected form the mortal coil and just float around.........

slapdash21 · Post by **slapdash21** » 04 Mar 2005 12:33

i've passes out a couple times. you dont really remember what you feel like later...i dunno.

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Inevitability of non-existence

Inevitability of non-existence

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