Shred 30 in Worlds 2005

Tuukka · Post by **Tuukka** » 08 Mar 2005 06:51

So, I have question about the rules of shred 30. Since I couldn't find any official document, telling the rules of shred 30, online, I'm asking if anyone knows the official rules.

Please answer only if you KNOW the rules. I don't want everybody telling me how it should be.

Right now, my comprehension is that shred 30 is only about the time. If you hit 35 contacts then.. good for you. That's the way they did it last year in Montreal also. So no some 30 contacts limit. I talked with Honza about the x-dex and we are saying NO for it. Still I want to know the official rule about it. If there is no rule for it, then we probably won't count it.

Tell me if I'm wrong in some point.

Thanks, Tuukka

Post by **Allan** » 08 Mar 2005 22:43

There aren't really any hard and fast rules for shred :30 in the IFC rule book. The section leaves a lot up to the tournament directors (too much if you ask me).

IFPA members should be able to grab a PDF copy of the rule book here:

http://www.footbag.org/groups/showfile/136

Never mind xdex or how many contacts, the primary issue at hand is how you count uniques.

I've stated my opinion that we should/need to be super-strict on what qualifies as unique a few times now, so I'll spare y'all the rant - sufficed to say that I think a double over down is a double over down is a double over down no matter where you set it from.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » 09 Mar 2005 10:26

adds / contacts x unique tricks + adds = score.

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 09 Mar 2005 12:37

wicked wrote:adds / contacts x unique tricks + adds = score.

[(adds / contacts) x unique tricks] + adds = score

or

[adds / (contacts x unique tricks)] + adds = score

?

jon · Post by **jon** » 09 Mar 2005 12:45

edit: i am wrong its the first

Tsiangkun · Post by **Tsiangkun** » 09 Mar 2005 12:46

(ratio of adds per contact times unique tricks) +adds.

Tuukka · Post by **Tuukka** » 09 Mar 2005 13:23

qphox wrote: [(adds / contacts) x unique tricks] + adds = score

this is the right one. Or like Tsiangkun said (add radio * uniques)+ adds.
I know the basic rules, of course, but I'm not sure of all this x-dex stuff, 'cos I don't personally use x-dexes at all.

Then there is this point Allan put on the table. Should paradon,ddd,dod,barfly be considered as one unique trick? That would also make reaper equal to double switch over etc.

Tuukka "TKO" Antikainen

jon · Post by **jon** » 09 Mar 2005 13:33

do tricks performed on both sides count as one trick or two in terms of uniques?

are drops a 0 add contact? or 0 add no contact?

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 09 Mar 2005 14:21

Drops are a zero add CONTACT. A move is unique if done on the other side. That is to say, you can do two unique butterfly stalls, one per side.

As for the other issue, you all know that I agree with what Allan Haggett said.

As for X-Dex, I'm not a big fan of it (mostly, I think, because I don't like the current definition of what counts as a full dex and what doesn't), but I don't really see why you wouldn't use it.

I think, over all, since IFPA has not made the Shred-30 rules VERY SPECIFIC, you are free to interpret the rules as you wish, and its up to you what to count as Unique, and whether or not to include X-Dex. I think the only obligation you are under is to make it very clear how you intend to interpret the rules WELL BEFORE the event.

Good luck.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » 09 Mar 2005 14:39

I think that the add system is more accurate with x-dex than without. I agree with Jon that it isn't perfect, but hell, the add system as a whole is far from perfect.

Why not use the most modern, most accurate system?

King Monkey · Post by **King Monkey** » 09 Mar 2005 15:50

I think for major competitions, at the very least Worlds and probably also European Championships, that there should be a standard set of rules by which each competition is guided and judged on, so that competitors know what to expect from the competition year after year.
These competitions are becoming more and more important as the number and level of the players increases rapidly and people are putting more and more time and effort into their preparation. I think its only fair that every year Worlds runs on a standard set of rules, unless these rules somehow become redundant or new ones must be added - in this case it should be voted on and ammended by a governing body like the IFPA. This would ensure that everyone is on a level playing field each year, they know whats expected of them every year, and they wont be turning up to the tournament only to find out that 10 moves of their shred30 are no longer unique, for example, due to the organisers of that years competition adopting a different view on shred30 scoring.

Tripp · Post by **Tripp** » 09 Mar 2005 15:57

I didn't read this whole thing but are drops unique? Or just the first drop?

qphox · Post by **qphox** » 09 Mar 2005 16:03

How about handcatches. ie: Brett Campbell Worlds '04

Tuukka · Post by **Tuukka** » 09 Mar 2005 16:04

Tripp: Drops aren't uniques

and for Jonathan: that's why I'm doing this now, (not in July) to be able to have rules online long before Worlds, so people have time to prepare their shred 30s

.

All the rules will be on Worlds 2005 web page as soon as it will be lauched.
There is still some time to think about these things, so that's why I'm trying to get all the issues solved asap.

Tuukka "TKO" Antikainen

FootbagginBum · Post by **FootbagginBum** » 17 Apr 2005 15:12

Didn't they make x dex so that it would be used? It's only confusing when people tried to complicate it. An add for each full dex beyond the first, with mirages, illusions and whirls being full dexes and legover, pickup, pixie, fairy being partial dexes. (Don't ask questions if you have them, just search, there is TONS AND TONS of posts regarding this, on multiple threads, on multiple forums, and they all pretty much end the same)

Are people really still looking at atom smasher as a 3? And sumo and merlin as 4's? If I went to worlds this year I would go tripless, and that would include atom smashers, toe blurs, toe barrages etc... and I would be very dissatisfied with the scores if I lost an add on each of these and ended up with a ratio less than 4...

Sorry to be debating TKO, it just seems inconcievable that most my tricks would be devalued and my 7 adds would be 5s. The only reason x dex isn't 100% standard is because people are scared to standardize it and every year decide to wait another. Well, if we wait any longer, the precedent will be made to ignore it in competition, and then trying to compete won't be freestyle, it'll be ... do your harder tricks that get the adds and forget the ones that bring down your score.

If we agree we should fuck adds (and I'm pretty sure that EVERY freestyler who REALLY understands their limitations does) but still use them anyway, we have to use Xdex. Letting adds be an even worse guage is just backwards and stupid. And it gives clipper dominance a huge and unfair edge.

Peace,
Bum

Shredfish · Post by **Shredfish** » 17 Apr 2005 17:58

I'm sorry if this is off topic but I didn't want to start a new thread.

I've always wondered how in the world does a judge count adds?
It seems impossible.
You'd have to think faster than a normal person and know every trick and it's add value.

What's the secret? lol

hacksterbator · Post by **hacksterbator** » 17 Apr 2005 18:27

the average person dosen't throw obscure moves into their shred 30 routine. plus video replays are also standard for shred 30.

ShredOnLawn · Post by **ShredOnLawn** » 17 Apr 2005 22:47

30 moves count.
Plus your drops so you could have 32 "contacts" if you had too drop and 38 tricks.

X-Dex is part of the ADD system and DOES count.

It's a stupid competition because it gives shorter players a huge advantage over taller players.

Taller players like myself will never hit 30 contacts in 30 seconds.

UNFAIR

Webslinger · Post by **Webslinger** » 18 Apr 2005 06:15

IFPA has never accepted xdex, so it is not official.
All the moves managed to hit in 30 seconds are counted, so there is no contacts limit.

Outsider · Post by **Outsider** » 18 Apr 2005 06:19

ShredOnLawn said:

30 moves count.
Plus your drops so you could have 32 "contacts" if you had too drop and 38 tricks.

BOLLOCKS!
In a 30 Second timed event, I get to use all my 30 seconds to my best advantage, just like every other competitor. Everything I do in those 30 seconds counts.

ShredOn also said:

It's a stupid competition because it gives shorter players a huge advantage over taller players.

Taller players like myself will never hit 30 contacts in 30 seconds.

BOLLOCKS!
How many moves you can pack into your 30 seconds depends far more on your trick selection than it does on your height. I'm taller than Ryan Mulroney and Vasek, and I've hit more moves in my shred than they have. Its simple. I deliberately try to do smaller, faster moves. You aren't hitting more moves in 30 seconds because you're choosing to do tricks that require you to set the bag as high as your chest or your neck. I'm doing smaller tricks that barely come up past my knee, and I do this intentionally in order to fit a few extra moves into 30 seconds. Even Big Add Chad could fit more than 30 moves into 30 seconds if he picked the right moves (Whirr instead of Tomahawk, for instance)

I'll only support the notion of counting only your first 30 tricks if we eliminate the time limit entirely. In a timed competition, I should get to use and count everything I do in my allotted time. If the competition is "Best 30 Tricks", well, why should it matter how long it takes me to do my 30 tricks? I've got lots of slower moves that I'd like to do in a shred contest, but up till now I've simply known better than to use my slow tricks. Take away that time limit and I'll show you a guiltless 30 second shred with no clippers or toes.